Supernatural - 4x16 "On the Head of a Pin" Rewatch
Added 2024-06-19 08:32:34 +0000 UTC
Comments
Sex and Violence - Hey Shelley, your thoughts on The Doc being a Ruby parallel and Nick being a Castiel parallel are interesting. Sam is also banging Ruby, but she doesn’t actually mean anything to him. Nick being a Cass stand is is interesting, but I don’t think, at this point, he fits as a replacement for Sam in the brother sense (more so if this were Season 5), but an alternate ally maybe. Also, the siren literally says that he is a stand-in for Sam, so I think you may be putting a bit too much emphasis on Cas here, imo. Actual stated text does have more weight than parallels or subtext that people can interpret however they want. I like how the siren goes after Dean where he is vulnerable (family), not sex because he can get that whenever he wants. It’s an interesting angle to take. "Subtext" for Dean's male siren is a slippery slope, though, because that way lies wincest (the siren literally declared it is a stand in for Sam). Also, the siren ends up infecting both brothers, and the way we see him do it to Sam is …evocative, so that would be some bi Sam subtext, too. I truly think the intention of the episode was simply to flip the normal expectations of what a siren is, and show how messed up Sam and Dean's relationship is right now, but if we start looking for subtext … there is way more there than some fans might like. An interesting episode for sure. On The Head of a Pin - I think this is a very good episode, but I almost never watch it. The actor who plays Alistsur disgusts me so viscerally that I don’t enjoy casually watching the episode., even though I think he’s great in the role. The episode I’d definitely an important on for the season, though. Side note: headcsnons are definitely fun, and people should watch the show how they like. But, one thing to keep in mind is that Chuck wasn’t really envisioned as god in this season. That came later, so any parallels to him might not be fully intentional yet. He records the stories in this season, rather than creating them. This is sort of like the trickster in Season 3. He wasn't Gabriel yet, so going deep into his motivations at that time doesn't fully work in context of later seasons.
Sare
2024-06-22 22:16:03 +0000 UTCI agree about Sam’s motivations. I think there is a to more behind all of his actions than just power-tripping or trying to be better than Dean, as some would suggest. I think it’s interesting that Sam and Dean, particularly Dean, often (not always) end up killing their brother's greatest tormentors in the earlier seasons: Sam kills Alastair. Dean kills YED. Dean ultimately kills Lucifer.
Sare
2024-06-22 21:49:11 +0000 UTCShelley - I don't believe Sam killed Alistair simply because he was on some kind of power trip. He killed him because he was the demon who tortured his brother in hell and got him to start torturing others. I would have done the same TBH. Also, I love that we are seeing the cost of Sam's power and feeling uneasy about it, but at the same time, Alistair would have sent Cass back to heaven and killed Dean if Sam wouldn't have stepped in at that moment to take him out. I love those grey areas that the show plays in. Necessary evils. Delicious.
Vel
2024-06-22 07:27:22 +0000 UTCJust finished listening to your thoughts on "Sex and Violence". Personally, I would have enjoyed watching this one over others with you because I agree, this is full of meaty parallels. I was actually kind of surprised this didn't make it in the top 8 because all the shippers tend to love this one. Having Dean's siren be his replacement brother is something the wincest and brothers fans love while others read the siren's choice of gender as subtext as well. I think the writers were being inclusive with their choices here for all the fans...lol. As far as your comments about reading into the subtext, I'm in the camp of respecting Jensen's choice to portray his relationship with Cass as platonic since he has been consistent with that answer. But I am kind of surprised people have never asked J2 how much of the show they have actually watched, in sequence, the way we watch the show. Same goes for the rest of the cast, because I see a lot of them relying on fans for their insight instead of having their own thoughts. I think it would be interesting to know what their takes are. I know R2's podcast is doing that on some kind of level, but the shows I have listened to have more of a focus on the production rather than the episode itself.
Vel
2024-06-20 23:13:13 +0000 UTCSeason 4 is my favorite, and this episode is my favorite of season 4 and maybe the entire show, everything is so on point, the cinematography, the dialogue, the acting, everything, every cas scene is fire 🔥, cas is so competent and conflicted and powerful and hot 🔥, I love that in 4x10 "heaven and hell" dean saved cas and here cas saved dean and both Sam and Anna saved cas 😍
Hasnaa
2024-06-19 23:49:55 +0000 UTCHaven’t been able to watch the reaction yet bc I’m working :( but I’ve got a few minutes just to comment my thoughts! This is my all time FAVOURITE episode of supernatural!!! IMO it is objectively the best episode— the visuals are insanely good, the absolutely amazing progression of cas’ character arc, Sam’s downward spiral and Dean’s trauma are all fantastically done with such nuance and interest. This is my favourite point of cas’ character because he’s clearly feeling so much and all those feelings are warring with his sense of duty. Dean’s “session” with Alastair is always thrilling and devastating to watch— both Jensen and Christopher Heyerdahl’s acting is amazing. I think Alastair is the best villain in all of supernatural, just wish we had seen more of him! And then Dean at the end of the episode being so broken 😭. And finally seeing Sam drink the demon blood— such a moment for first time reaction! Overall an absolute master class of an episode by Ben Edlund and Mike Rohl. It has some of the best and most iconic shots— the one of cas with the flickering streetlight as a fading halo, cas on his knees covered in blood, Alistair on the star… just so many! I don’t know if you have mentioned this in the reaction, but when Alistair says John lasted 100 years… I don’t believe him. Alistair spent 40 years in hell torturing and teaching Dean, so he knows Dean better than anyone. He especially knows what to say to get under deans skin. So things such as calling him “daddy little girl” and saying that John never broke are just ways he’s getting to Dean and manipulating him. It also fits with why in s2 the crossroad demons are eager for Dean to make a deal like in 2.8. I think John broke and they were expecting it to break the seal so when it didn’t, they realised John wasn’t truly a “righteous man” so started to go after Dean Anyway, just my thoughts!
Kit
2024-06-19 20:26:24 +0000 UTC#2 on my top 10 list of all the Spn episodes. I remember it immediately became my fave ep when I first watched it and then only my fave ep that came a couple seasons later was able to surpass it.
BexFangirl
2024-06-19 20:10:58 +0000 UTCThe righteous man who begins it, is the only one who can stop it, is still correct. Just not in the context the angels believe. The true apocalypse begins when Lucifer breaks out of the cage, when Sam sets him free. And it stops when Sam puts Lucifer back in. The prophecy was always about him, it always was. We see this particularly in season 5, nobody ever blames Dean for what happened. Nobody ever says it began when Dean broke the first seal. Everybody (even Dean) blames Sam for breaking the last seal. He gets all the anger, all the pain, all the blame for starting the apocalypse, from everybody. The show heavily implies that Sam killing Lilith is the start of the apocalypse, so Cas' warning still rings true. He is just talking to the wrong Winchester
Elisia
2024-06-19 16:36:03 +0000 UTCI have a theory on the meaning of "The righteous man who starts it has to end it." I think what they mean by righteous man is the bloodline of Michael's vessel. John ,Dean, Adam and Sam are all part of the best bloodline for Micheal to possess which makes them "righteous" I don't believe that Dean and John would be the only righteous man to ever go to hell but it had to be a good man with that specific special bloodline to break the first seal. The end it line I believe is talking about killing Lucifer which Dean does actually do in season 13. Whoever the vessel was going to be was going to kill Lucifer. Adam ended up doing it as well in season 15. Remember the whole thing about Sam stopping Lucifer wasn't supposed to happen. They changed the angel's plans.
Christopher simeon
2024-06-19 10:29:17 +0000 UTCI love this episode so much.. it’s in my top ten of the series actually. It is just so heartbreaking in so many ways. Seeing Dean realize he broke the first seal…my poor shattered heart. Then also seeing Cas realize his brother is behind the angels deaths, and that Uriel wants to raise Lucifer..he was so crushed to learn the truth. And here is when we finally learn that Sam has been drinking ruby’s blood. Wow. (It was hinted before but never shown or said outright before this.) But I still firmly believe he started when Dean was still in hell…he was at his lowest and that would be just the motivation he needs …being told it would make him strong enough to get justice for Dean being killed and going to hell. Btw the scene where cas tells Dean his superiors have begun to question his sympathies…the line ‘I was getting to close to the humans in my charge. You.” Was originally written and filmed saying you, and Sam.” But for unknown reason (ahem), they removed “and Sam.” Now granted cuts are made all the time for lots of reasons..often for time. But I somehow don’t think those 2 seconds were critical…so it makes one think it was purposefully done to show the deepening bond already forming between Cas and Dean…and that bond is already getting cas in trouble in heaven. I love this Alistair…he plays a perfect smarmy evil villain …Those scenes with him and Dean…the cool close up shots with them facing each other when A is on the rack… chefs kiss! But deans face when A tells him that he broke the first seal…the pain in his face..the guilt…no matter how many times I’ve watched this episode…my heart breaks for him every single time.😢😢😢 Our boy doesn’t need any more guilt, he already blames himself for too much. Then when Sam kill’s Alistair…Cas’s face watching…omg. Then when Cas finally puts it all together that Uriel is behind the angels dying because he wants to raise Lucifer and start the apocalypse…but Cas refuses to give in…love it. Cas the BAMF. Then Anna saving the day. Love! And then that final scene between Dean and Cas in the hospital….First, I love that Cas came to just be there with Dean, even though he doesn’t yet have the power to heal…he wanted to be there for Dean. And when Dean asks if he started it, Cas doesn’t lie to him. I think this episode really shows us in several different places that their bond truly is growing stronger. But then Dean saying “Then I guess I’m not the man either of our dads wanted me to be.”😢😢😢 And his single man tear. That scene smacks me hard in the feels for sure. I think the part about the Righteous Man has to end it is about heavens plan for Michael to kill Lucifer. But the way it went down is them using their free will and doing it their own way…the first big instance of them subverting heaven’s plan for their lives. Go Team Free Will. Such a great episode for sure.
BunkerGirl
2024-06-19 10:26:31 +0000 UTC
