Supernatural - 4x9 "I Know What You Did Last Summer" Rewatch
Added 2024-05-31 05:21:32 +0000 UTC
Comments
I really do believe that using his powers and giving into them fully - "flipping the switch" as some of the special kids said - is what turns them bad. So Sam giving into them and using them is messing with his judgement and making him angrier than usual. He's changed. It's not just getting harder because of The Life and Dean's death either. This is a stance I feel strongly about. This is one of the reasons Dean is worried about it too. And Ruby "saved" Sam from Lilith back then because it wasn't time to kill her yet, and it would have just made things tricky to explain if Lilith didn't kill him yet. And she didn't want Sam to die yet either. She needed to keep him from killing himself or being so reckless that he gets killed. I think that little girl and the info about Lilith being there was all a set up - by Ruby, with Lilith's help. To further mess with Sam and help get him down that dark road. Whether he killed the little girl or not, they'd get something out of it. But, I'm wondering if they were hoping he'd kill the innocent girl? I really do believe Ruby is working with Lilith, but only Lilith knows. That's all so that they can prove to Sam that she's on his side and going against the demons. It always bothered me when they would say that Cas was "human" when he lost his Grace. He wasn't. He was still an angel, just with no grace. Angels don't have souls. They don't automatically get souls when they lose their Grace either. So that's a nit I like to pick. Now, with Anna, she did get a soul. She Fell and lost her wings and hid her Grace, but she had a soul. So she did get to live as a true Human for 20 some years. I really liked her character too. I don't like what they did with her either.
Michele
2024-06-03 18:02:34 +0000 UTCI think Ruby is Lilith's tool in getting Sam. Alistair is also working with/for Lilith. But, we soon see that it seems like Alistair doesn't know that Ruby is working "undercover", and thinks she's a rogue demon. I think Ruby's whole goal right now is to get Dean to start feeling better towards her and to bring Sam back around to working with her. So she could be finagling everything to set up situations that she can take advantage of. And communicating with Lilith about it, while keeping every other demon out of the loop, so it plays better for Ruby. As long as the demons think Ruby is a traitor they can't spill the truth to anyone. Alistair has yellow eyes, so he's the same level of demon as Yellow Eyes was. Lilith is a higher level. The First. About angels healing. Cas doesn't have those powers at this point. Chuck gives them to him at the end of season 5 when he resurrects him in the season finale and he's able to heal Dean after Sam/Lucifer beats him up.
Michele
2024-06-03 17:43:08 +0000 UTCI totally agree that we should have gotten more signs of Dean dealing with his memories from Hell. Kripke should have made sure that the writers incorporated that into each episode, and make it more effective.
Michele
2024-06-03 17:16:42 +0000 UTCLove this episode and love part 2 even more. My thoughts on how Ruby saved Sam's life: I always interpreted it as her saving him from taking his own life. At the beginning of the scene where Ruby meets Sam in her new Coma Girl body he is drinking and cleaning a handgun. As he is about to load a single bullet into the chamber he hears her knock. I think that at this point he has given up on any demon making a deal with him and he feels that he can't go on with the guilt of knowing Dean is in hell for him. If Ruby hadn't shown up at that moment he would have committed suicide.
Abigail
2024-06-01 14:18:25 +0000 UTCThis is such an amazing episode, along with the next one – it has so much plot in it and so much new info, but you don't ever worry about that because it rips along at a gripping pace. I can just about remember the first time I saw it, with no idea who this new character was, and finding out step by step about Anna – just surprise after surprise. Also, the revelation about Ruby possessing the sort-of corpse of coma girl and then seeing her having sex with Sam is super-dark (if you think about it too hard). I love the whole arc of Sam's spiral into darkness through seasons 3 and 4, it's incredibly compelling.
Jay
2024-05-31 19:08:26 +0000 UTCAlastair isnt quite on Liliths level, the white eyes seem to a sign of position. Alastair ranking at the top in hell also has white eyes. Tho its debatable whether he or Lilith is under the Prince's, cos the name Prince suggests they are the next in line of the throne after Lucifer and Lilith being his first might be ahead of them, which makes sense why she can break the seals when they cant.
Kyle
2024-05-31 16:32:12 +0000 UTCEven tho i liked her, how they did Anna's character is kinda poetic. She kept saying she didnt want to become an Angel again and would do anything to not be cold hearted like Cas but sacrifices herself in order to save Sam and Dean when Cas and Uriel threatens them. Then through Dean Cas becomes more human as she becomes what she was didnt want be, becoming the cold one which puts her on opposite sides from Cas. They have opposing character arcs, where they sacrifice for Sam and Dean and switch places into what they didnt want to be.
Kyle
2024-05-31 16:15:07 +0000 UTCU were looking forward to pinning down when exactly dean started calling castiel cas, I hope u caught it already, the nickname was first used by Dean in 4.04 Metamorphosis when he says to Sam "Cas said that if I don't stop you, he will.", it literally took dean 4 episodes only to give him a nickname 😂😍
Hasnaa
2024-05-31 12:31:43 +0000 UTCApparently, Singer/Kripke etc. didn't want to bother and thought it would be a waste of time to show her possessing an empty vessel. Well, here’s some snippet of an interview with Sera Gamble, writer of that episode: Sera Gamble Interview via link: https://www.thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/4346-interview-with-supernatural-writer-and-producer-sera-gamble-part-one/ Q: I need to take a few sentences to gush over “I Know What You Did Last Summer.” The script was gorgeous, as was Jared’s performance of Sam at his absolute lowest point. You gave him some outstanding material to work with. Out of all your scripts, that so far is my favorite. Having said that, did the ridiculous fan debate about Sam being a rapist prompt you to give Ruby an empty shell to inhabit (great line, by the way, “Al Gore would be proud”) or was that the plan all along? SG: We started work on the episode before any debate began that I know of, so none of it was a reaction. But we did know that Sam having sex with a demon would be provocative. Actually, I was very excited to work on the episode. People do a lot of otherwise unthinkable things when they’re grieving. Who doesn’t want to write the episode where a character they’ve worked on for 70 episodes does stuff he’d otherwise never do? But anyway, the state of Ruby’s body was the subject of much conversation, mostly because I couldn’t shut up about it. I just couldn’t get past the rape thing. I think I actually disappointed some people I work with, who thought I’d be tougher or darker or something. Or possibly just didn’t care as much as I did one way or another. But I took a lot of writers’ room time talking about it. And ultimately took the long way around so I could get her into a vaguely more morally acceptable body. I readily admit it’s rather silly, and the mechanics are contrived — that’s why I leaned into the joke so much. _______________________ I am pretty sure that the fan debate on Sam being a rapist was referring to the scene in Lazarus Rising when Ruby opened the door to Dean and Bobby in her underwear. They were obviously not “roommate”, and the scene hints at Sam sleeping with Ruby while she was possessing someone.
rose mnor
2024-05-31 08:04:06 +0000 UTCSo this is the episode where the show addresses Ruby possessing an empty body because of the non-consent ramifications of her and Sam having sex. Sera Gamble was the one who pointed out that Ruby needed to be in an empty vessel in order to avoid consent issues. RUBY: Is it because of the body? Because I told you -- it's all me inside of here. There is no one else. And it's nice inside this body, Sam. Soft and warm. SAM: What are you doing? RUBY: Isn't it 'cause you're really scared to go there with a demon? Because it's wrong and it's bad and we shouldn't? Ruby being in an empty body to take out the icky side of her and Sam having sex, also foreshadows that she and Lilith were in cahoots together. Because in 4.18 The Monster at the End of this Book, Lilith also makes a lot of noise to Sam that she got a consenting body so that she and Sam can seal their deal by having sex. That small scene in 4.18 can be seen as foreshadowing Ruby's role in the whole long con but it went over our heads. Ruby is most likely the only demon who really knows how much Sam is bothered by not having the host's consent, so she's the only one who could have told Lillith that Sam would need to be convinced in that manner. So by trying to convince Sam: “Don’t worry. The dental hygienist in here? She wants it bad” in 4.18, indirectly revealed that previously Ruby must have told Lilith how Sam was very much opposed to her wearing a living, talking body/meatsuit. In the reply, Sera Gamble was interviewed about the consent issues (copy/paste from my earlier post)
rose mnor
2024-05-31 08:02:21 +0000 UTCAbout Sister Jo, I made a post (in Destiny's Child reaction video) about her and extrapolate how we can headcanon her being on earth around this time with the help of some facts from Superwiki, (copy/paste and edited):- Sister Jo From Superwiki: Sister Jo is an angel who was formerly known as Anael in Heaven, where she worked as Joshua's right-hand angel. She spurned Joshua's offer of more responsibilities after visiting Earth and seeing the pain and suffering of humans and questioning why God does nothing. As a result, she was demoted to a low-level functionary, counting souls as they enter Heaven. At some point afterwards, a disillusioned Anael left Heaven and struck a deal with a woman praying for her dying husband -- in exchange for saving her husband, Anael would get her as a vessel. From Superwiki: The character of Sister Jo herself could be considered an unreliable narrator throughout her appearances, regarding what she reveals of her past and motivations. IMO - Hence, whatever Jo said to others cannot be treated as the show's truth or the full story, for example, her backstory to Lucifer, From 13.13 Devil's Bargain (Written by: Eugenie Ross-Leming and Brad Buckner) SISTER JO: After the fall, all the angels were a mess. Desperate for housing, any vessel would do. And they had no long game. I, on the other hand, took some care. I listened. A woman was praying for her dying husband, so we made a trade. IMO - ... she didn't exactly say that she took her vessel during the fall, only how she chose said vessel ... From Superwiki: However, in 14.17 Game Night Jo mentions visiting Earth at an unspecified time in the past to Castiel and becoming disenchanted by Heaven. IMO - this opened the door for the headcanon of Jo being on Earth before The Fall From 14.17 Game Night (Written by: Meredith Glynn) ANAEL: I believed in Heaven. You know, our mission. I believed, Castiel. But then I got to Earth, and I saw that it wasn't the paradise God promised. I mean, there was so much hate… so much suffering. /end There were loopholes in the dialogues that the writers squeezed through that can place Ruby and Sister Jo working together at this time, therefore not actually breaking canon. Both of them are unreliable narrators, again, established in the Destiny's Child episode whereby both versions of how they met were to be doubted, as a classic she said/she said TV trope - you cannot trust them. Hence we cannot hold whatever they say now and/or previously as the absolute truth for the show. TLDR; the timeline of when Sister Jo has been on earth was not exactly specified, thus a headcanon can be made that it is possible that she can be around on earth at this time.
rose mnor
2024-05-31 07:36:14 +0000 UTCOn the Ruby & Anael bit. As I recall the biggest canon issue was the Anael basically told Cas that she didn't leave heaven until the fall and that's when she took that vessel. I don't particularly care. There were plenty of canon breaks before that which annoyed me more. Plus, the fan service was fun, especially at that point in the show.
KAREN GAUCK
2024-05-31 07:10:45 +0000 UTCYep. Ruby and Lilith were absolutely working together the whole time. I also think he was already drinking the blood, but I don't recall the show ever telling us exactly when it started.
KAREN GAUCK
2024-05-31 07:05:05 +0000 UTCLove this episode. But Ruby and Lilith were absolutely working together the whole time. (I’ll explain my thoughts on that after this one thing.) You asked if a seal was broken in Great Pumpkin… it was. The angels tell Sam and Dean that despite stopping the witch, it was still broken because Samhain did rise. Now about if Ruby was working with Lilith the entire time.... Ruby confirms it. She actually tells Sam that right after he kills Lilith, when Ruby is going on about how awesome she is. She says, “None of the other demons knew. Not even Alistair. Only Lilith.” We know that Lucifer spoke to Azazel (through the dead nun on the alter) instructing Azazel to find Lilith and the special child (Sam). I think Lilith recruited Ruby to help win Sam over to get him to play his part. Lilith knew she was going to be killed right before Lucifer rose. That’s why in the ep The Monster at the End of this Book, I think Lilith was being honest when she made Sam the offer to stand down if he and Dean would sacrifice themselves. Regarding Sam’s powers to exorcise demons….. I always took it that he was already drinking blood when we see him exorcise that demon in this ep, they just weren’t immediately also having sex. (And the writers just didn’t reveal it to us about the blood yet. Because they want us to trust Ruby too.) Sam says Ruby was teaching him how. If he could exorcise them without demon blood, I don’t see why he would have any incentive to start drinking it in the first place. If anything would convince Sam to start, avenging Dean in Hell would be it. I think if Ruby probably said something like, if you just drink a tiny bit of my blood it will make you strong enough… I think right then, at his lowest point, Sam would do it. (And once he did and liked the strength and power it gave him, he would want more and more.) Because keep in mind, when Sam didn't drink and was out of blood in the flask, he couldn't even exorcise that random demon in the Jimmy episode, The Rapture. This shows us it isn't about Sam honing his psychic abilities that allowed him to do so. He had already been exorcising demons mentally left and right by that point, but without the blood, he couldn't even gank "stunt demon number 7" (to quote Dean talking to Sam.) Also, I firmly believe Ruby knew Lilith wasn’t really possessing that little girl at the end of this episode. For one, she knew Sam wasn’t strong enough yet to kill Lilith (we also see that evidenced in The Monster at the end of this Book. He tries, fails, and Lilith even says "You're not strong enough, not yet". And two, it would defeat Ruby's entire goal. It wasn't time for Sam to kill Lilith yet to achieve what Ruby ultimately wanted--Lucifer to rise. That was her ultimate goal the entire time, starting with day one when she sought Sam out before Dean even went to Hell. And obviously, they first need Dean to break in hell, and then all the subsequent seals to break before Lilith is killed by Sam so Lucifer could rise. That's the only way it could happen, in that order. But Ruby knew Sam needed a push to continue... and that Sam was able to exorcise a random demon-- with the right motivation. That whole scene was a complete manipulation on ruby's part because she knew Sam wouldn’t just leave when she told him to… that his nature would keep him there and he would fight to save her. His anger and feeling like it was a life or death situation would push him enough to allow him to be able to exorcise the demon/save Ruby….. with the bonus that he would feel indebted to her for “saving him.” Total manipulation. I think that doing so also gave him enough of a push to continue drinking demon blood and keep using his powers. I do give props to Ruby for her powers of manipulation and utter skill and patience running the long con. **Regarding Anna, I liked her a lot too. But after they changed their minds to keep Cas in that role in the boys lives, I guess the writers weren’t sure what to do with her. I agree her behavior right before her death was so different, but remember, this was after she had been locked up in heavens jail for quite some time getting reprogrammed. Cas was also completely different at first after the same happened to him.
BunkerGirl
2024-05-31 06:52:45 +0000 UTCI believe Jared and Gen went on their first date while filming this episode. Not at all awkward. Since Gen was in her underwear when they first met, it tracks.
KAREN GAUCK
2024-05-31 06:42:30 +0000 UTC
