Supernatural - 1x21 "Salvation" Rewatch
Added 2024-01-29 04:06:18 +0000 UTC
Comments
"Living for someone is infinitely more difficult than dying for them." loooooooove this so much. "And Dean is the counterpoint to that way of living. Which is one of the reasons I fell in love with him." SAME!!!!!!!
BunkerGirl
2024-01-29 20:54:19 +0000 UTCForgot to add... I loved Provenance. I think mainly because I loved Sarah and really enjoyed seeing her interactions with Sam. I am 150% a Dean girl... and usually prefer Dean focused episodes a bit more, but I really liked this one anyway.
BunkerGirl
2024-01-29 20:52:20 +0000 UTCThat's a really good point about Adam - and his mom. And Bobby and Missouri...
YazH
2024-01-29 20:13:23 +0000 UTCVampire-wise, I think the implication was Jenny got Dean's scent for life which is why she tracked him down in the series finale (NB. I think Dead Man's Blood is a hybrid episode, personally). I think the demon lore in Season 1 was shaky and they sorted it out in Season 2 and beyond. I had never noticed the line you stopped on - that Meg was either a demon or possessed by one (Crowley is a demon who was a man called Fergus, possessing the body of a literary agent from NYC, if memory serves!). I do remember in Devil's Trap when Bobby tells Dean not to exorcise Meg as it would 'kill her'. Which didn't make sense to me when I watched it in 2007 and has never made sense to me in the umpteen rewatches since! And Sam agrees with Bobby - and Dean was the only one being sensible and saying they were going to release the poor girl Meg Masters from being possessed, even if that meant she died - I am not sure we ever got Meg's actual name (though we do find out she's Azazel's daughter and the random with her is her brother) BTW your reaction when John was telling Dean that he should have picked up the phone and told John when Dean found out Sam had his visions and Dean turned around and you were like 'Git 'im!' So cute! But your point about John not needing to go off on a wild goose chase never struck me before, either. Would John really not be where Azazel was going to be after chasing him for so long? This is why I love rewatching with you :) But, John annoys me in this episode. It reminds me of what Soulless Sam says in 6.02 when Dean was taking care of that baby and Soulless Sam was giving Dean shit about having Lisa and Ben on lockdown and Dean was like this is temporary and Sam was like, "Dad always said it was temporary, Dean. He said it for 22 years." That's what I have always felt about John. Mary was the REASON he did what he did to his children, but that is not an EXCUSE. John chose to sacrifice his living children and their lives and safety for the memory of his dead wife. And the fact that he loved his children makes that fact no better. In fact, in some ways it makes it worse. Love does not negate abuse. I understand his choice, but I don't agree with it. He prioritised the dead over the living. And sacrificed his baby and pre-schooler for his obsession. And like you said, sacrificing himself for Dean in the end was a choice John made, because of other choices. And one grand gesture does not make up for a lifetime of falling short. Living for someone is infinitely more difficult than dying for them. And Dean is the counterpoint to that way of living. Which is one of the reasons I fell in love with him. Him saying that if finding Yellow Eyes meant Sam dying then he hoped they never found him. *cue heart breaking in two*
Yasmin H
2024-01-29 19:46:42 +0000 UTCI wanted to correct one thing regarding the comics: they are not actually written by Kripke. He was involved with the first one (Supernatural: Origins) but not as a writer. The only SPN comic he wrote was a four page comic starring the Ghostfacers that was released with the sixth issue of Supernatural: Rising Son. Origins was written by Peter Johnson. Rising Son was written by Peter Johnson and Rebecca Dessertine. Beginning’s End was written by Andrew Dabb and Daniel Loflin. And the fourth one, Caledonia, was written by Brian Wood.
Klaara
2024-01-29 19:08:48 +0000 UTCthat and the connection with Sarah gives us an insight to how Sam may have been with Jess before this all happened. It's just nice to see him laugh and smile for once. we only really see him as a brother and a son, it's interesting to see him with more of an equal, if that makes sense. See him how he is outside of his family/the job etc
GillyBean
2024-01-29 15:23:18 +0000 UTCidk why I said garden demon, but it sounded nice
BexFangirl
2024-01-29 14:43:14 +0000 UTCI think the only demon who wasn't possessing a vessel was Deanmon. And if it I don't remember if it was said, but Cain could have been one too, if the mark turned him. But like I said I don't remember if it was ever talked about if Cain died first and then got a vessel etc etc I agree with that it probably was said like this because the demon lore wasn't quite figured out yet, it's one of the lores that I feel changes most, especially with the all the kinds of demons later on (yellow eyes= prince of hell, red eyes = crossroads demon, white eyes = ?first generation demons? (not so sure here) and then the knights of hell who have the same eye color like your average garden demon)...
BexFangirl
2024-01-29 14:43:02 +0000 UTCI'd say hybrid too
BexFangirl
2024-01-29 14:33:19 +0000 UTCThanks for another great reaction 🙌🏼😄 I think Provenance is an average MOTW ep, slightly elevated for Sam’s character stuff. But not a 8.6 imo I’d say deadman’s blood is myth arc ep. To me myth arc: is one you need to watch for a season critical plot point. A hybrid: is a side-quest MOTW ep that gives helpful background to the season arc but you could skip and still mostly understand the arc. Whereas plain MOTW is a side-quest that might have some good background character points but is not actively furthering the season plot. Imo the colt is important enough to make this myth arc. About Meg: Meg Masters was the body (she comes back as a ghost in rising of the witnesses in s5) - the demon must just have liked the name and keeps it from then on 🤷🏻♂️😊 Crowley: was called Furgus Macleod (son of Rowena Macleod) when alive in the 1600s. He chose the name Crowley when he became a demon. The body he wears now was (iirc) some publicist from New York, name unknown. But Crowley is very fond of that meatsuit and keeps it. 😁 We hardly ever see any corporeal demons without a body. There is a ghostly fanged child thing in Cold Oaks - All Hell Breaks Loose - where the body dissolves into smoke and then smokes away. And the Daeva demons that Meg controlled in Shadow, those do have bodies they are just invisible. So it seems that some of the lower class animalistic demons have their own bodies, but all the human, talking, main-player demons we meet in the show are demons possessing a meatsuit. So I think John saying ‘meg either is a demon or is possessed by one’ was just because the show hadn’t gone firm on possession as their main plot device as yet. The demon who shot Meg with the fake colt was her ‘brother’. (Another demon who called Azazel their ‘Father’.) Supposedly a big player like Meg. But totally just comes across as stunt demon #4. (However Azazel does reference being upset that Dean killed his kid after Dean uses a bullet from the colt to shoot that guy) For this episode I definitely think Meg should have threatened another specific person after Caleb, Bobby etc although we hadn’t met him yet, as it was it did come across as a bit of a weak plot device just to split them up. And I’m also team Sam was already psychic. The mother saying about mind reading baby is enough for me 🤷🏻♂️😊 I really enjoy this episode as a set up to the finale and I’m really looking forward to rewatching that with you. Cheers! 😄
MidnightSilver
2024-01-29 14:02:18 +0000 UTCIt was good the writers were able to cover their own tracks really well with that retcon because she show took a different direction than originally intended.
Vel
2024-01-29 14:01:26 +0000 UTCI think your right. The demons may not have known about Adam specifically but once they started attacking his friends that put Adam and Adam's mom in danger
Christopher simeon
2024-01-29 12:54:56 +0000 UTCYellow told Dean in season 4 that he is going to cover his tracks good. I took that as meaning he put the angels on false trails by creating many psychic kids so they couldn't figure out his real goals easily while also creating a potential army for himself and possible vessels for Lucy. Three birds one stone.
Christopher simeon
2024-01-29 12:50:39 +0000 UTCSo regarding the logic of John going to Meg, she threatens to kill anyone he ever loved. Who we don’t know at this moment, but makes this make sense, is Adam. John clearly cares about him because he would “take him to baseball games on his birthdays” and he never trained him as a hunter so Adam would be completely susceptible. So i think the reason John is willing to do such a risky move and meet Meg is because he doesn’t want Adam to be hurt
Kit
2024-01-29 12:43:58 +0000 UTCI love provenance mainly because of Sarah and sam's interactions, it's entertaining. Yellow eyes is a prince of hell, the 4 princes of hell has yellow eyes. I definitely don't think john leaving Sam and dean in motels as children and going off on hunts was the right thing to do at all, he should've stuck with them until they're old enough to be left alone of go on the hunt with him, the comics just helped me understand why they needed to be on the run, always on the move and couldn't settle down in one place for long unfortunately, yes reading the comics after you're done with the rewatch would be great, guys let me know if you're interested in a reaction to the comics, there are only 4 comics, each is 6 issues so it shouldn't take more than 3 months if she reacts to two issues a week, even less time if she reacts to 3 or 4 issues a week, an issue is about 23 pages, it's a quick read but very informative and has a lot of shocking moments. I think john just wanted to stop meg from killing more of his friends, she gave him a deadline till midnight if he didn't show up with the colt she would've started killing his friends again, I think he was bitting on meg buying the fake gun for at least a lil bit, giving him some time for Sam & dean to kill yellow eyes, he definitely made an escape plan with the holy water so he wasn't sacrificing himself, he was trying to escape but he also knew there was a possibility he wouldn't make it. Sam pushing dean against the wall because dean said revenge wouldn't bring Mary or Jess back is a parallel or a callback to the pilot where dean shoved Sam against the bridge because Sam said revenge wouldn't bring Mary back, how the table has turned. Crowley (before he died and went to hell and became a demon) was a Scottish guy called Fergus, Rowena's son, then when he died and his soul went to hell for years it was twisted into a demon, that demon escaped hell and possessed some unnamed moderately successful literary agent out of New York who came from England and he changed his name to Crowley instead of Fergus, iirc all the demons we see are possessing humans, because when humans die their bodies don't go to hell, only their souls do and it takes years of getting tortured and doing some torturing yourself for their souls to get twisted into demons (at least hell time years, could be the equivalent of six months or a year in earth time), their body either gets buried and decays or burned to ashes so demons are just black smoke, tortured souls, in order to walk the earth they have to possess someone otherwise they will be just smoke like a storm. So yeah it was weird that john said she's either a demon or possessed by a demon, maybe he didn't know his demons lore yet idk. I too think that Sam was always gonna have psychic powers, yellow eyes or not but even if he only had those special gifts because of Azazel's blood they didn't have to make them go away when Azazel died, that was unnecessary and such a shame, I would've loved for Sam to still get visions and to control his abilities like Missouri, it made his character more interesting, there's a reason the earlier seasons were more Sam focused than the later ones because him losing his powers made his character really lose a huge part of what made him interesting to me
Hasnaa
2024-01-29 10:51:31 +0000 UTCAbout provenance, I don’t like it. I was so surprised it’s an 8.6 bc it’s one of my least favourite s1 eps! The best part about it is the humour and for me other than that it’s a pretty boring monster of the week ep. And I don’t think it’s bc I’m a massive dean girl bc some of my favourite episodes are Sam centric this just has imo a reallllly boring plot
Kit
2024-01-29 10:47:44 +0000 UTCI think the yellow eyes demon is a prince of hell not a knight of hell, Abaddon was a knight of hell
Hasnaa
2024-01-29 10:44:18 +0000 UTCIn terms of vampires having your scent for life - we touch up on it again with Alex escaping her nest in the future. So it is a bit of lore that does hold up. The mating for life - I guess, we do see 'families' or nests of vampires in the future, so that seems true too. I would say Dead Man's Blood is a hybrid, because it is quite vamp heavy.
Sharon Owen
2024-01-29 10:34:59 +0000 UTC- Since Ruby was very powerful, her blood was to build up Sam's physical and/or mental strength in pulling demons out without exorcisms, strong enough to kill Samhain, Lilith, and Alistair (Alistair & Samhain certainly fought Sam hard during that event, while Lilith did not). And to not explode Sam when housing Lucifer even though he is already the perfect vessel. If drained dry, Sam will be weak and he will become addicted in a drug-addiction kinda way. - As for Azazel's, these are only headcanons so, take them with a grain of salt. Only a bit was dropped into Sam's mouth. I think one of the purposes is to mark him as one of the special children in running for Lucifer's vessel then he (Azazel) went under for more than 20 years. Later when he emerged, this drop of blood would trigger those kids' powers (he wouldn't know which one or who they were by now) - any kind of powers, i.e. mind control, strength, psychic visions, burning touch, telekinesis, etc. Azazel was a Prince of Hell, a demon so powerful that holy water couldn't hurt him. Just a drop of his blood is powerful enough to gift these kids all kinds of superpowers. Imo, these bloods from 2 different demons function differently in Sam and are not to conflate them. To me, when Ruby said to Sam in Lucifer's Rising that "you already had the power dumbo" or some such line, she is referring to Azazel's blood as Sam claimed Ruby poisoned him. Imo, she meant it was not her blood that "poisoned" him, it was Azazel's. Even before he drank Ruby's, Sam managed to stop Lilith in No Rest for the Wicked without trying and she seemed confused about it. So that blood protected him from Lilith's intention of hurting him as he was already marked by Azazel's blood. I think at this point of the story, she wasn't aware that she was not supposed to and was acting on her own and overcome by her rage, or whatever, who knows. His telekinesis power emerged in Nightmare triggered by his need to save Dean on top of psychic visions too, but that's just child's play in the greater scheme of things to come. Also, a popular theory that is based on canon: if any of the special kids with whom Azazel's blood triggered their powers, continued using them for nefarious reasons, they would succumb to the dark side early/faster - like Ava, Jake, and Ansem, whereas Max, Andy, Lily, and Scott died before that can happen. And Sam too, as he eventually chooses to kill the nurse to unknowingly complete Azazel's mission. He was gaslighted into thinking that the nurse's blood was to top up Ruby's, but imo, she lied; it was a test, and that was the line that Sam crossed. Violence is always a choice for the perpetrators. In this case, this is Sam's choice, and imo, Azazel's blood is to muddy and eventually corrupts the morality and ethical standing of the kids as human beings. When Chuck saved Sam and Dean from the church in Lucifer's Rising, I think that cleaned him from all blood including Azazel's. Sam in 5.01 Sympathy for the Devil: It's like whoever...put me on that plane cleaned me right up. In my opinion, since Sam's powers originated from demons, I would prefer him to lose them forever rather than keep using them. ETA: to be clear, since the story specifies that it was a dark power, hence not to be confused with the psychic powers of Missouri, Patience, and others of that ilk.
rose mnor
2024-01-29 10:15:41 +0000 UTCHere is my headcanon about Sam's demon blood. For me, there were 2 main classifications of demons that Sam's blood came from: 1 - from Ruby - originally a human who was a witch, from the 1300s. From Superwiki: During the Black Plague epidemic in Europe (1348-1350), she died and her soul went to Hell, where she was tortured and eventually became a demon. She was also very powerful imo due to her being a demon for a long time, like Crowley. 2 - from Azazel - who is one of the 4 Princes of Hell. Others were Asmodeus, Dagon and Ramiel. From Superwiki: They were the first generation of demons created by the archangel Lucifer after the creation of the first demons Lilith and Alastair and before the Knights of Hell (Abaddon & Cain). They were made prior to the sinking of Atlantis in ancient times, over 10,000 years ago according to Crowley. Okay, here we go in the reply, let's take Ruby first because that's mostly canon.
rose mnor
2024-01-29 09:40:41 +0000 UTCI've only watched the intro, but for me 100% a Dean girl, I like Provenance, because in the beginning Supernatural was supposed to be a horror tv show and this is one of the few episodes for me that really brings that. Bloody Mary really being the only other one for me. Partly because, like you said, it's well directed. Also, it has a good guest actor. S1 doesn't have a lot of episodes that rank really high for me and for S1, Provenance stands out. 🤷♀️
KAREN GAUCK
2024-01-29 08:25:05 +0000 UTCProvenance in my opinion is like Dead in the Water, an OK story that is elevated in people mind because of some Sam character moments just like DITW was elevated by some Dean character moments. Agree on the Direction - I do not think Phil S gets enough credit on this show as a director or as a Producer, him leaving left a big hole in the final season in my opinion.
Kim Rigg
2024-01-29 08:07:50 +0000 UTCIt was actually Absolution in AOS, not Salvation, but close enough 😂
Laurel
2024-01-29 07:40:19 +0000 UTCI wonder if the cattle deaths were a way for demons to get blood to communicate to hell, and not try to draw as much suspicion as if they killed a human. I dont remember if animal blood works in the bowl the demons use to call hell. I do disagree about the kids would have powers without the demon blood. Azazel asked Dean if he was one of his special kids then smelled him and said no not you. Remember Azazel only came to Sam after meeting and liking Mary. He said he chooses the parents because they are strong etc. I took what Ruby told Sam to mean it wasn’t the blood he drank from her ….not that it wasn’t demon blood at all. She said that after Sam said “you poisoned me” to her. She said it was in him all along. Sure, drinking demon blood powered him up, but what happened to him in that nursery changed him. I think we are supposed to think that Azazel’s blood changed him for good. ** thank you Hasnaa for the correction on this.... he was a prince not knight of hell. ** Re having yellow eyes, if I remember correctly he was one of the knights of hell, and they all had yellow eyes. Because the knight of hell we met when Mary stole the colt for BMoL had yellow eyes too.. Tbh it’s never made sense to me that John left them to kill Azazel. After him hunting yellow eyes for two decades, there is no way it’s believable to me that he would have left it to Sam and Dean. That totally goes against his character…. It was too clearly just a plot device imho, Also, in later seasons the demons seem to all know it’s the colt by sight, yet Meg and stunt demon #2 didn’t. Weird. PS. It makes zero sense to me that the demons haven’t destroyed the Colt long before this considering they were able to simply melt it in their hand in season 12. It makes no sense unless it was protected by spellwork, which it clearly wasn’t.
BunkerGirl
2024-01-29 07:09:26 +0000 UTCI love Provenance. For me, it’s the great mix of humor, meeting the charming Sarah and enjoying her connection with Sam, the general brother scenes, and a good ghost story (I agree that Phil’s direction was great at making it creepy and a little scary). As you said, it has an 8.6 on IMDB while Dead Man’s Blood has an 8.4. While DMB is more important from a myth arc/lore standpoint, much of the time I fast forward through 75% of it, if I watch it at all. It’s just not entertaining to me.
AdoptDontShopPets
2024-01-29 05:05:21 +0000 UTCI fuck with this episode even after seeing it dozens of times over and I can’t say 8.6 is an accurate rating I’d say maybe 7.7 in All honesty
NSTG_Eddie
2024-01-29 04:17:51 +0000 UTC
