Supernatural - 1x6 "Skin" Rewatch
Added 2024-01-11 05:49:34 +0000 UTC
Comments
I was thinking his motivation was that he just wanted to have that human connection - same with the shapeshifter in 'Monster Movie', but that when he gets rejected (because he doesn't understand HOW to form those connections), that's when he gets violent.
Amye Sabin
2024-01-17 18:07:19 +0000 UTCAccording to Wikipedia: 'In Navajo culture, a skin-walker (Navajo: yee naaldlooshii) is a type of harmful witch who has the ability to turn into, possess, or disguise themselves as an animal. ' I think shapeshifters in SPN evolved to be just the one that changed into different people, but in this episode Sam uses it more as a catch-all term to include anything that changes forms including skinwalkers and werewolves. Some of what the shapeshifter revealed (sooner or later everyone is gonna leave me) was completely heartbreaking. The echo of this moment in Shadow when Sam and Dean have a convo about Sam going back to college is something to watch for and makes this moment even more devastating. Jensen was brilliant in this episode. Dead in the Water, Skin, Home, Faith, Shadow and Something Wicked sealed my fate as a Dean Girl!
Yasmin H
2024-01-13 15:35:50 +0000 UTCAt 1:11:29 mark, On re-reading my notes (lol I have notes too!...) I just like to point out Shelley, that SS!Dean did get that hunt trivia with John correct that Sam tested him with since he had downloaded Dean's memories. When Sam threw Baby's key to him and he caught it using his left hand, that was when he was sure it was the shapeshifter. Before when they were in the sewer, they both were caught by surprise and Dean was struck by the shapeshifter, at 0:45:02 we can see he was cradling his left hand. SAM: You caught those keys with your left. Your shoulder was hurt. At 1:13:18 mark, Imo, yes Dean would prefer a lot, A LOT a lot, if Sam stays hunting with him. But ... if Sam chooses not to, Dean will be okay with that, too. Like in the pilot, Dean was okay that Sam wanted to go back to school. As long as Sam is alive and well and happy somewhere on this earth, Dean is a-okay with Sam's choices. Also, we will see this when they were considering being separated after the Benny and Martin debacle in S8. It is just that if Sam died, that's when Dean would turn everything upside down to get him back. At 1:20:08 mark, And about Sam's premonition, I haven't re-watched further episodes yet, but my impressions of that arc in the early days was, that Dean was not like 'hey don't talk about that to me' from him ... as we will see in the next episode Home, how he doesn't feel that way about Missouri and her psychic ability ... I would like to offer a different perspective in that I'm leaning more towards Dean's past historical supernatural experiences than his phobia of freaky things and their abilities. He was afraid that with Sam's vision, there might be supernatural elements attached to his ability as they were not sure where and why that came from. As with John, Dean was apprehensive about supernatural creatures and events because of what had happened to their family. Their family was targeted and they know this for sure. Dean was triggered by that and was super not wanting anything remotely like that happening with Sam as that would mean Sam is confirmed chosen by an unknown insidious entity. Imo, that was too where the vendetta of 'kill everything supernatural or remotely monstery' of John's mantra came from, as John related those creatures with the evil thing that happens. As we go along, Dean's phobia of freaky things can and will change as and when they are proven not evil, but his feelings about demonic insidious things (i.e. Ruby) remain entrenched deep in him. And they were right about the psychic vision of Sam as those visions only became latent and manifested when YED emerged again. If those visions were not YED-related, then they could have been manifested organically earlier, like Patience of Wayward Sisters.
rose mnor
2024-01-12 03:59:18 +0000 UTCI agree with your thoughts on Bugs. For me, it’s the ending that is lame (and the cgi 🤣). I love to get insights on brother/family dynamics and we get that in Bugs.
AdoptDontShopPets
2024-01-11 21:18:52 +0000 UTCIt’s great you are listening to the Supernatural: Then and Now. It is good for what it is…a bts look at the show. You will just have to ignore when they misunderstand or forget key plot points and characters. For ruminations on the story and character motivations, there are a lot of amazing fan podcasts out there for later listening.
AdoptDontShopPets
2024-01-11 21:15:09 +0000 UTCGood points. Dean's idea of the supernatural being "Bad" is pretty broad too, extending even to anyone who possesses any non "normal" talents, like Sam's visions. Bad things are targeted to be taken out - killed - in Dean's world. Taught to him by John. That is something that terrifies Dean at first. To him, it seems to mean that Sam would be seen as just another thing to be killed. This is when we see the first signs of Dean having to struggle with what he's been conditioned into. Sam becomes a really good influence for Dean, once John isn't around. Without John's influence, we see that Dean is more open and able to change. Seasons 2 and 4 are really big on that front, for Dean. Is why he has such a hard time in season 2, IMO. John's not around and he's forced to see things without John's influence, and it's hard for him. But Sam is there to help. Dean really needs Sam, and he realizes that.
Michele
2024-01-11 18:04:05 +0000 UTCIt is interesting seeing the shapeshifter throughout the series all with different motivations that may come from the same place. This one wanted to feel close to someone, the next one wanted money, the one in season 6 six wanted his child and the one in 13 just wanted to give people closure. The money guy way have just wanted to use money to form connections that way since he couldn't do it any other way. The others all seem to be seeking a way to bond with someone.
Christopher simeon
2024-01-11 13:22:11 +0000 UTCShelley your excitement is contagious😁. I’m so glad you are having so much fun! Im also having so much fun rewatching this with you! 😄 -Yep you figured out that Skinwalkers are a type of shapeshifter 👍🏻. Idea is loosely based Native American / Shamanism lore, where the skin of an animal was worn to change the person into the animal - but the show just ended up using Skinwalker for an animal (dog) shapeshifter. These shapeshifters in this ep, even tho they shed their skins when they change, are just called shapeshifters. -The lore evolves as the seasons go on and for the first several few we assume shapeshifters are freaks of nature, maybe born human or a mutation. In season 6 with the alpha shapeshifter collecting the babies - we learn that they reproduce by sleeping with women while posing as their partners. The shapeshifters are only closing ranks and collecting the babies in S6 because of the Crowley threat. I think normally shape shifters just grow up abandoned to the unwitting mothers and thinking they are freaks. (Hence why most go off the rails - but they don’t really explore if that’s choice or not, until Mia the therapy shapeshifter woman in s13x4) -Dean doesn’t take the idea of Sam’s premonitions well - yep. Dean inherited a lot of black and white thinking about monsters from John. Monsters = bad. Sam is the voice of: maybe monsters can choose to be good. We see Dean start to confront his black and white thinking once John is dead and they get into the Lenore case with Gordon representing the extreme of the negative John aspects. And of course Sam’s journey gives Dean new perspective on what should actually be considered a ‘monster’. -one of the reasons I love this ep is because of the deep dive into the boys characters, (I personally find most of the motw’s pretty meh in S1 but I love how it all builds the show background and characters.) I love the way the show here highlights Dean’s journey and his parallels to the monsters, muddying the idea that Dean is the ‘good’, ‘perfect’ son and Sam is the ‘rebellious’, ‘misfit’ son. They start to meet in the middle understanding that even if it sometimes looks like they are polar opposites they can understand where the other is coming from. Freaks together. 😄 -Enjoy hookman and bugs! 🤷🏻♂️😄 can’t say they are my favourites. But interesting things to look out for: hookman deals with inheriting questionable morals from an imperfect parent. And bugs has a brief moment of digging into the different views Sam and Dean have of John, and how they are both unreliable narrators in their own ways and the truth is somewhere in the murky middle. Looking forward to your thoughts and definitely looking forward to Home! 😄
MidnightSilver
2024-01-11 13:21:53 +0000 UTCYeah, this is a good one and I was on this path too in trying to decipher any parallels to the boys and was leaning toward this reading ... but I got stuck in that the shapeshifter didn't even try to bask in the love with the significant others of the person it was impersonating in any length of time ... Emily was killed in between the time Zack was absent from home while visiting Rebecca, meanwhile the second victim was bashed in between the travel of the husband to the airport and back ... and relating these murderous tendencies to Dean, ugh ... that's why I got stumped and maybe overthinking it is not far from the truth ... not in favor of that reading to be honest ... still a valid interpretation nonetheless.
rose mnor
2024-01-11 13:15:46 +0000 UTCI don't recall where I read or watched but they did say that when crafting the stories, the writers will establish what is it they want to say or reveal in an episode first or conflict to resolve, and then they will decide what kind of monster that fits the story and can serve as a vehicle to convey that reveal in some kind of form or another. This was the template that they used in mostly motw episodes. That's how and why we got most of the mirroring and the parallels to inform us what the boys really like, and to show the audience the boys' headspace since they don't talk to each other about their feelings in the early seasons.
rose mnor
2024-01-11 13:04:49 +0000 UTCnever apologise for a deancas tangent 😌
Kit
2024-01-11 12:54:08 +0000 UTCOh man ... that Robert Wisdom one was terrific, I love it a lot - On the Head of a Pin, one of my most favorite episodes of the series.
rose mnor
2024-01-11 12:52:00 +0000 UTCI love the Shapeshifter's as a monster and this is one of the best SS episodes. I do not know what is says about me but I like the ick gory and dark aspects of them and the way they are portrayed. That added to the character insights make this a stand out one for me.
Kim Rigg
2024-01-11 12:14:01 +0000 UTCThankfully 10 seasons later, someone does tell dean that they will never leave him, in the mark of Cain plot in the episode where dean beats the shit out of cas, right before they fight, cas tells dean "Sam, everyone you love, they will be long gone, everyone except me" basically telling him that he will never leave him no matter how evil the mark turns him, he would stand with him till the end of time since they are both immortal at that time, cas also tries to bear hug him from behind again to restraint him like he did at the beginning of the same season with deanmon but this time it doesn't work because dean isn't taken by the element of surprise like deanmon was and he breaks free and fights cas to hopefully push him away enough that he doesn't come after him because he knows he's a weakness of him and can reach him. There was no way dean even with the mark would've drove that angel blade into cas's chest especially when dean is so scared and especially after cas told him that he will never leave him which is THE one thing he needed to hear all his life from the people he loves. I want to hug dean so much too, I am greatfull for all the times Sam and cas hugged him for me. Also yes dean is so touch starved that's why the small moments where cas unnecessarily touches dean to "heal his wounds" even though he can heal everyone else from a distance or when dean cups Cas's face to help him get up and make sure he's okay are so precious to me, they're both seeking that physical connection, that's why all their hugs are so precious to me and the fact that dean initiated their first hug ever is so precious. Sorry for the long tangent, I have a deancas brainrot
Hasnaa
2024-01-11 12:08:19 +0000 UTCYou also talk about the frustration of the shapeshifter (and Phantom Traveler's demon) having no apparent motivation - I'm not sure the series cared about that in the early days. We are used to seeing the overall arc and characters as the most important thing, with the MotW relating to that in some way, but I'm not sure Kripke necessarily realised that at this point in s1. Shapeshifters became a recurring monster and part of the show's mythos but at this point they're just another monster for the boys to fight. A lot of the writers and directors in s1 are one-offs, too - they haven't settled on a writing team yet and it's interesting to see how someone like Sera Gamble or John Shiban make their mark. Shapeshifters in future will often echo this relationship with Dean (who 'lies professionally', happily adapts to any situation, from film sets to jail, is 'empty inside' and, as here, takes on all manner of disguises). They're my favourite monster. I know this is a Dean girl episode but it also tells us some significant stuff about Sam – how he completely hides the hunter side of himself in front of his friends and lies to Becky without thinking twice. So there's a parallel for him with the shifter, too. In the car later Sam talks about not fitting in at Stanford and Dean says they're both freaks, which he says lightly but it's a significant moment of underlining that hunters are as much outside society as the monsters.
Jay
2024-01-11 12:04:10 +0000 UTCShelley, you mention listening to Then and Now: in the earliest episodes of the podcast it's still finding its feet (they had someone from the fandom write part of it, which was unnecessary as R&R are all about the riffing, plus the writer was very unpopular in the fandom). It gets much more confident as it goes along, but what makes it great is the interviews and the behind-the-scenes info that you don't get elsewhere. Maybe I'm a bit of a geek though - I really like hearing about how the special effects were done or the directing choices. And they have lots of the actors on – the last episode had an interview with Robert Wisdom (Uriel!) who was great.
Jay
2024-01-11 11:37:16 +0000 UTCMaybe I read too much into it, but I thought they really did show the skin walker’s motivation… and that’s why they related it to Dean. I felt they tried to show that it felt like he would never be accepted or loved for who he was… so it lashed out at people who shared a close bond…destroying what he could never have. To make it worse, he used the loved one to do the killing.
BunkerGirl
2024-01-11 11:31:55 +0000 UTCMaybe the issue is calling it who “won” the episode, maybe you should phrase it as who was the mvp of the ep?
Kit
2024-01-11 10:57:49 +0000 UTCin regards to who won the episode Bloody Mary, I would agree that dean won it. Sam was the main emotional arc of that ep, but ultimately Dean did a lot of the actual dealing with the monster and was the one who figured out how to kill Bloody Mary. I think this is going to be the case for a lot of season 1 and 2 episodes, because Dean is the older “sidekick” (massive quotation marks here) to Sam’s protagonist. So Dean will often be the one who ultimately saves the day because Sam can’t have his heroes journey that he has in these seasons if he’s already an amazing hunter and solving all the cases.
Kit
2024-01-11 10:56:46 +0000 UTCIt is funny how since episode 1.01, the story shows how one brother emotionally connects with all the women they meet while his brother just hits on them. But WAIT, this is a folklore show and we’re doing a shapeshifter episode. So by fundamentally paralleling the motw with Dean, how about then the reveal that it is an actuality that "Dean has never been loved and wants human touch" ... ouch ... And we'll find out in a later episode particularly why Dean embraces the tendency to emotionally disconnect himself from other people (which was maybe likely due to his heartbreak from his first real relationship with Cassie in 1.13) and also because of this job - saving people via hunting monsters. He tried so hard to distance himself and from forming connections, but as the seasons went on, we'll see how easily he established attachments with others instead, more often than Sam ... Dean 1.06: Sooner or later everybody's gonna leave me. Castiel 10.22: ... Everyone except me. Oh, Dean bby ... just you wait for a little while, he's coming ... So this is the first episode of John Shiban in SPN, an X-Files import. I ... have mixed feelings about this one - on one hand, a good episode reveal about the brothers' headspace, has plenty of actions, and has a great story all around. But on the other hand, I agree with you, Shelley, that the motw backstory is meh to me. The previous episodes clearly show the motw motivations - what drives them, and we can connect them as parallels to the arcs of the story for the most part - except that demon is gonna be a demon. But this one escapes me ... I tried to guess the shapeshifter's motives - was the murderous desire or fetish completely connected to its biological makeup? Was it just using its shapeshifting power to murder because it wanted to? But actually, it didn't matter. The details surrounding the shapeshifter's own logic are scant at best and largely nonexistent. I try not to get too hung up on the odds and ends of it though, it just seems randomly weird like that since they got a good run of monsters' backstories in the last few episodes, but for this one, the motw is only utilized as a vehicle to expose more about Dean and his feelings about his family. ... This "murderous shapeshifter" monster as a vehicle plot will be revisited in S2, 2.12 Nightshifter by Ben Endlund, where we will, again, not be given adequate backstory of why they keep killing people in their vicinity.
rose mnor
2024-01-11 09:14:43 +0000 UTCSome highlights for this episode from Superwiki and others:- Recycled actor: Anita Brown plays Lindsay, the second victim of the shapeshifter, and will also play Hope Lynn Casey in 4.08 Wishful Thinking with Ted Raimi, the brother of the famous movie director Raimi - Sam Raimi. Ted was on Xena: Warrior Princess and Hercules: The Legendary Journeys as Joxer the Mighty. Anita had previously appeared as "Gill Girl" in an episode of Dark Angel alongside Jensen. At the Paley Festival in 2006, John Shiban, the writer (formerly of X-Files) spoke about the gratification he got from coming up with scary concepts and effects. "A fan was watching the show and giving her impressions as she watched it, 'Oh my god, Dean’s taking his shirt off!' And followed immediately by, 'Oh my god, he’s taking his skin off!' I knew then that we had it. I was very pleased with that." When Sam is checking his emails, his email is shown to be lawboy@standford.edu. (LOL, the way you tried to read his email address, Shelley, and after you've managed to see it, made me laugh too ...) The fight scene in which Sam fights Shapeshifter Dean was mainly done by the actors themselves. There are just a few edits that use the stunt actors, the rest of the fight scene was done all by Jared and Jensen. The director of this episode is Robert Duncan McNeill. We won't see him directing SPN for a long time until S8, 8.21 The Great Escapist. Jensen and Jared were so stoked about him coming back to direct SPN at that time because he was a great one in this episode. About Dean's bleeding eyes in Bloody Mary, from Salute to Supernatural Convention LA April 2008, Erik Kripke clarified ... Q: In the episode Bloody Mary, when a character sees Bloody Mary their eyes would bleed if they had a secret. Dean’s eyes bled, and we still don’t know why… EK: Right, I know. It’s just one of those things. As a writer you know things about these characters; you have histories and backstories. And there IS a real secret to Dean’s character that we know and that we have; it’s not core or central but it’s there. It appears that the fans have latched onto that and it’s driving them crazy, and at some point before the show is over we’ll need to reveal it, but not now (audience groans). And the more time that passes the harder it gets to revisit.
rose mnor
2024-01-11 07:53:14 +0000 UTC
