🏎 F1 Extra: We debate the drivers YOU think F1 should have taken more seriously
Added 2025-02-07 12:56:12 +0000 UTCBack in October last year, we presented a list of 10 drivers who never had a shot in frontrunning F1 machinery that we think deserved one.
Off the back of that article you inundated us with feedback and your own suggestions, so much so that we promised a members' podcast on the subject - and here it finally is!
So settle in as Edd Straw, Mark Hughes and Matt Beer weigh up the merits of the 25 drivers that you suggested as possible additions to our initial group of 10. And make sure you listen to the end, when Edd, Mark and Matt select the driver they deem most worthy from your suggestions.
Comments
Excellent episode. I've missed talk of a Formula 1 champion: Emilio de Villota
Disc Infiltrator
2025-02-12 17:02:51 +0000 UTCExcellent episode-More like these please if/when possible. I understand it’s difficult to do once the season begins in earnest.
Kris Peladarinos
2025-02-10 01:09:58 +0000 UTCOf the drivers that I don't remember hearing about in the podcast, I also think of Pierluigi Martini, Gabriele Tarquini, Christian Fittipaldi, and (this is going back into the turbo era) Manfred Winkelhock. I was pleased to hear both Mika Salo and Stefano Modena mentioned as I've often thought of them as candidates, Edd et al. raised some good counterbalancing points about their limitations. Funnily enough, in Andrew Phillips's F1metrics model both of them ranked very close to Jean Alesi (around 55th best of all time), which I think is probably about right, but I see those two as stronger candidates because unlike Alesi they never broke into one of the top three teams for long (Salo) or at all (Modena). Looking back at 1990 and '91 I actually think Modena was comparably impressive to Alesi's '90 for most of the season in that Tyrrell - Monaco 91 was particularly impressive - but that his performance level dropped off considerably towards the end of 1991, perhaps a sign of some of the limitations that Edd/Mark/Matt mentioned.
Ian Simpson
2025-02-09 16:22:14 +0000 UTCAnother great episode! I think Nicola Larini a bit unlucky to make this list. Qualified for a race in a Coloni (enough said!), did wonders at Osella, unlucky not to score points at Ligier as well. Qualified for a few races in the Modena and did well in difficult circumstances at Ferrari. Also scored a point on debut with Sauber almost 3 years since his previous start.
Davinho
2025-02-09 07:50:33 +0000 UTCGreat episode - I must admit I can't remember the original article so had a read of it first before listening. Wilson and Davidson are the two names from my time that I'd agree most with. Some other suggestions: Stephane Sarrazin - deserved more than a single race for Minardi, given his ability and adaptability in F3000, endurance racing and even rallying. A full F1 season would have been interesting Ricardo Zonta - perhaps the two seasons alongside JV showed his ultimate level, but I can't help but think a season in a more forgiving environment (Jordan?) might have brought out more Allan McNish - arguably his F1 debut came a decade too late. If he'd started in F1 straight out of F3000 rather than via sports cars, maybe things would have been different...
Stuart Coulter
2025-02-08 17:15:33 +0000 UTCI remember thinking along similar lines when people asked how a Schumacher-Alesi partnership for 1996 would have gone at Ferrari. I imagine his overall deficit being similar to Eddie Irvine's but with a lot more variability around the mean - I could see him occasionally being quicker than Schumacher but also occasionally being close to 2 seconds a lap slower.
Ian Simpson
2025-02-08 15:14:01 +0000 UTCYeah, he did over 200 races as well. There's a difference between not getting the chances (Werlein/Davidson/Sospiro) and not making the most of their chances (Alesi/Trulli/Patrese) - and they probably did make the most of their chances, just that they had high peaks and low troughs.
Simon Emms
2025-02-08 12:36:25 +0000 UTCTrulli also should not be on this list. The guy got plenty of chances in good, if maybe not great, cars and I think F1's general perception of him is very fair.
Jan Alexander
2025-02-08 12:27:01 +0000 UTCReally enjoyed this, great work everyone. You could go on and on with this topic, and I know I have with loads of people. I wish I could’ve got in my suggestion of Brendon Hartley!
Freddie C
2025-02-08 11:13:08 +0000 UTC100% I can't remember if it was Ben or Matt, but in the Alesi 90 episode they said he'd have days where he was faster than everyone and days when he was 2 seconds off to the pace. And I think that was bang on.
Simon Emms
2025-02-08 10:17:40 +0000 UTCFor me it was always frustrating that Alesi sat in the seat of a top four team for so long in the 90s. Yes he was capable of a very high level of performance, but he was so inconsistent. Had Alesi gone to Williams in 1991, I think there is a good chance Patrese would have beaten him.
Sam Mallinson
2025-02-08 10:14:59 +0000 UTC📝 *makes note*
The Race
2025-02-08 08:30:13 +0000 UTCGood call. I'm one of the Diniz superfans Edd (rightly) rails against. But my argument is more about how he improved and made the most of his opportunity and limited abilities. He didn't deserve anything more.
Simon Emms
2025-02-08 07:54:39 +0000 UTCI think most of us laughed for Alesi and also Patrese. Diniz though... I apart my drink out...
Alexander Law
2025-02-08 05:18:03 +0000 UTCGreat stuff. Its such a fluff subject, but something quite enjoyable about you guys just quick firing all these user suggestions. Plus the bizarre mentions of Patrese and Alesi threw me for a loop. You should make it a series, all random fluff topics, we debate circuit corners YOU think are underrated!
Padraig Reilly
2025-02-07 23:10:30 +0000 UTCAgreed. 200+ races and drives for teams that could win races is what many drivers dream of. I'd love to have seen Alesi in the 92 Williams, but his career wasn't bad. Same for Patrese.
Simon Emms
2025-02-07 23:07:00 +0000 UTCI had a feeling from the start that Jean Alesi might get mentioned and rejected, as he came close to getting into that dominant 1992 Williams and never got into a dominant car afterwards, and some tend to forget or underestimate how competitive the 1995 Ferrari and 1996 Benetton were, so there's quite a widespread perception that he never had a frontrunning car. I can't fathom the suggestion of Riccardo Patrese at all though - as they mentioned, he had that 92 Williams!
Ian Simpson
2025-02-07 23:04:38 +0000 UTCI think someone's trolling the BBV10s team by suggesting Alesi (a driver who squandered his best chances) and Patrese????Absolutely hilarious.
Mr. H.
2025-02-07 19:46:50 +0000 UTCYes, I know that. There's nothing we can do about F1/ballet, but in our own lives we have a duty to question received wisdom.
Simon Emms
2025-02-07 19:38:55 +0000 UTCExactly. My wife is into Ballet. She told me a story about a dancer who was very very good, but the head of the company said "I just don't see you as a principle Dancer". I've learned it in professional circumstances too. If you're liked you can do nothing wrong. If your face doesn't fit however, you can do nothing right.
Cardiff Giant
2025-02-07 19:11:32 +0000 UTCYes. I sort of feel similar when people say that Tsunoda gets too emotional with his engineer, but then you compare with Verstappen and I can't see much of a difference. In life, perception is critical and there's not much you can do about it
Simon Emms
2025-02-07 16:39:11 +0000 UTCThat's exactly what I thought as well towards the end. It feels like there were lots of drivers in there where you guys made the "Didn't have the killer mentality/arrogance/ruthlesness that is needed" argument, but then for Wehrlein it seemed to basially be the other way around. It opens up some interesting questions in regards to the mental side of the sport and where the difference is between drivers who where able to harness their confidence or even arrogance to help them win, and which drivers failed due to more destructive sides of that same medal.
David Trippler
2025-02-07 16:32:53 +0000 UTCNice listen, well worth the wait! Thanks that you decided to still do this after all those months.
David Trippler
2025-02-07 16:19:52 +0000 UTCMy thoughts exactly
Jan Alexander
2025-02-07 14:13:34 +0000 UTCIt's interesting that the comments for Werlein are "he didn't get the opportunity because he was too extreme" but for Davidson, Wilson and Kovaleinnen were "personality not extreme enough".
Simon Emms
2025-02-07 13:39:57 +0000 UTCI properly laughed out loud at the suggestion of Jean Alesi. No way did someone with 200+ starts not get taken seriously.
Simon Emms
2025-02-07 13:10:18 +0000 UTC
