Supernatural - 9x13 "The Purge" Full Reaction
Added 2022-01-23 14:59:48 +0000 UTC
Comments
I tried to write this comment so many times and it always just ends up being a rant about how much I don't like Sam. I understand the people who do like him, and yeah Sam has every right to be mad at Dean. But I can't help but see Sam's little speech at the end basically poking Dean in his trauma wounds. Of course Dean is afraid to be alone. He never got away from John's control. He was forced to be a parental figure to Sam since he was super young. Dean never had the chance to simply be on his own as his own person. Dean did what he knew, which was save Sam. His whole life he was tasked with protecting/saving Sam. Or, because John Winchester SUCKED as a father, maybe having to kill him. And I fully agree with you when you said that Sam made Dean push Benny away because it's true. Sam cannot stand it when Dean decides someone OTHER than him is Dean's main priority, ever, but then get's angry at Dean for making taking care of him his priority. I know people will disagree, but I see Sam as an entitled, spoiled younger brother who has never properly thanked his big brother for everything he has sacrificed for him. And that's why I just don't like him.
Thistle
2024-04-12 00:03:53 +0000 UTCDang, Sam looks so great in this episode it's distracting as hell!
CrystalDeth
2024-01-22 23:26:22 +0000 UTCIt’s hilarious that Sam’s speech at the end about how Dean convinces himself he’s right when he does wrong could immediately be transported back to season 4 and switched. These boys and their patterns. Love them so hard. (Getting caught up on your reactions—it’s been a rough week last week 😅
sarahzentexas
2022-01-31 20:45:19 +0000 UTCI know!! Comedy gold + a pile on from Sam leading to more comedy gold. Amazing. *Edited to add, out of curiosity @Linda , have you read the series of articles that includes this one?: http://www.sheilaomalley.com/?p=80141 The series gave me a far broadened vocabulary to express appreciation for the beatific filmmaking side of Supernatural, particularly early on, and includes comparisons to other films, filmmakers, artwork, etc. It's really edifying if you haven't seen it.
SKK
2022-01-24 15:24:16 +0000 UTCIn the cold light of day, I realize I may have thought about this beyond what the writers did. Uh-gain. :-P
SKK
2022-01-24 15:22:51 +0000 UTCHelen. Girl, PLEASE. I am not angry Sam didn't die. I never said that, no one ever said that. I'm not even talking about shutting the gates of hell. I am talking about 9x01, not 8x23. THE WAY Dean went about saving Sam was wrong, and Sam is completely justified in being angry because Dean allowed a stranger complete control of his body and mind, then repeatedly lied about it. Sam, who was dosed with demon blood as a baby, used by demons who pretended to be his human friends, used by Ruby to start the apocalypse, possessed by Meg and Lucifer, had a soulless, amoral version of himself running around for over a year in his body doing horrible things--now he is violated yet again, by the person he trusted the most. It speaks to another issue where Dean still thinks of Sam as the kid he's in charge of and who he doesn't always allow to make his own decisions. Dean is the (sometimes, not always) oppressive parent in the situation. Yes, the positive outcome is that Sam is still alive, but at what cost? And that is Sam's argument. Dean's love for Sam is becoming harmful for innocent people, and THAT is the point. I can agree with Sam, disagree with Dean and still be glad Sam is alive and still love Dean. It's not all black and white.
Lauran Mitchell
2022-01-24 14:11:00 +0000 UTCTbh the first half of this season isn't my favorite, i believe that part of why Sam felt so resigned in 9x01 is his guilt over letting dean convince him not to close the gates of hell, part of it is just "if it's my time, it's my time, i won't cheat death", the first time Sam died in all hell break loose part 1, dean couldn't let him go & it led him to make a deal with a demon to sacrifice himself for Sam & led Sam to go on a very dark path to try to save his brother from hell, if dean hadn't made that deal, Sam would just die & go to heaven & dean wouldn't have gone to hell & had to torture souls, Sam doesn't want that again, if it's his time, it's his time, he wasn't actively trying to die, his body was failing him, he just wanted to make sure that dean can't make some stupid deal to resurrect him, that's why he made death promise that if he goes with him, it's final. dean being so black & white still about monsters at this point is very frustrating, it was understandable in season 1 coz they were both raised very monster racist (thanks, john) but now? It just feels like dean will let monsters live if he has a personal connection with them but if he doesn't, they don't deserve to live? Like your best friend is an angel, you had a vamp "brother", your other friend is now a werewolf, your brother was a "monster" at some point, you would think he would be a lil bit open minded at this point but unfortunately John's teachings are very ingrained in him, speaking of John's teachings, dean & Sam think differently re family coz Sam wasn't raised believing his self worth is what he provides for dean, another great john winchester achievement is that he taught dean that his purpose of life is sam's wellbeing, one thing i do appreciate this season is that they are critical about their relationship, good point about Benny though, my issue with Sam is that he's very indecisive about what he wants, one point he doesn't want dean to have a friend coz he feels like dean's replacing him, yet he claims to want more freedom & agency, Sam has no problem moving on from their relationship but if dean just tries to expand his circuit of friends, it has to be someone they both know, like cas, charlie, Garth etc.. although tbf the whole Benny thing was part payback for Amelia too, not that Sam actually cared that Benny was a vamp, the beginning of both seasons 8 &9 now has focused on looking at Sam & dean's relationship more critically, instead of glorifying it & i love that, Sam could really be a great trainer, i would definitely sign up for that class 😂😍, great reaction, Shelley 👏😍
Hasnaa
2022-01-24 12:59:17 +0000 UTCI would like to point out that sam said SAME circumstances he would not do what dean did. I take this as let someone use his body just to save him or completely take away dean's choice by tricking him. Not that he would not try to save his life ever.
Christopher simeon
2022-01-24 12:56:24 +0000 UTCnot the end of this episode kicking me square in the chest on dean's birthday when i promised myself to only think happy dean thoughts today .... 💔
claudia.
2022-01-24 10:35:24 +0000 UTCEvery time someone dies as a direct result of the gates of hell being left open, Sam will feel the weight of that. That's why he asked Death for it to be final...that no one would suffer anymore because of his choices. Speaking of choices - I digress. S8 is when Sam and Dean's isolation and codependency stopped being a circumstance and started becoming a choice. And we are working through that choice in these episodes.
Vel
2022-01-24 05:33:24 +0000 UTC@SKK Yeah, and I believe her breaking point was just her saying, "It's too much!" 😂😂 He said he could tell she would be game and that she knew comedy, and knew the super powdery face is comedy gold! 😂 I love Sam motioning for him to wipe his mouth and Dean like dabs at the corner, doing absolutely nothing, but nods like, "Yeah, I got it!" 😂😂
Linda Moore
2022-01-24 04:30:36 +0000 UTCLiterally Sam saying those words and asking if Dean is okay every other minute though...LOL. It shows you everything you need to know.
Vel
2022-01-24 04:17:42 +0000 UTCI was gonna *say*!! (re "Fish Taco") I laughed - directly - out loud - at the face he made when he said it. Also, according to some con video I found, which you may be aware of, the doughnut thing was an attempt to make the actress playing Donna Hanscomb break. (Apparently, she's tough to break.) And Jensen was so pleased when he "got her!" to break. Le joy. Le sigh.
SKK
2022-01-24 04:13:32 +0000 UTCI'll never say it enough times, but S9 filler is just.... woof. 🙄 They killed Kevin for this crap?
ConsciousChronicle143
2022-01-24 02:23:31 +0000 UTCGreat reaction - I agree with you completely, it is a very complicated situation, but complicated is what this show does best. I also definitely think Sam was saying a little bit of truth in a really rough, "I'm hurt so I'm gonna hurt you" kinda way. The way we all do when someone we love hurts us, we tend to want to hurt them back. I don't mind this episode, it's not my favourite of the season, but I love the Pishtaco/Fish Taco line. The expression on Dean's face was so priceless - perfectly delivered by Jensen. Also enjoy his delivery of "Sweet Potatoes!" LOL! I really like Sheriff Hanscum too! She was really sweet. But I usually do skip a fair amount of this episode on rewatch. You talked about when you see the big long scenes of them walking around you go into editing mode. When I see them, I think - they needed filler for this episode. LOL! Sam's still living at the bunker, he was just saying he was "hitting it" meaning, "hittin' the sac" I think. I will always disagree that Sam should have died for the "greater good" at the end of S8. Lol! But I think this show is always very good at showing both sides of a situation/argument. Again, I don't think they could have got Sam back without undoing the closure of the gates. God NEEDED that sacrifice in order to close the gates. So, even if they'd managed to get him back, I think it would have cancelled that sacrifice and it stands to reason that the gates would have swung back open. But I guess we'll never really know. It is really tough to watch the boys dealing with so much friction. There's a saying in the fandom, and apparently it was on the set as well. The crew guys used to joke and say, "I hate it when they fight!" Same guys. Same. LOL! Looking forward to the next one!
Linda Moore
2022-01-24 02:07:04 +0000 UTCI already posted on a previous thread something to the effect of it'd be hypocritical of me to condemn Dean too harshly for the Gadreel hospital save as I'd have done the same thing for my sister -- assuming no DNR. (And I've had a lot more time to think about it than he did, so it'd be *suuuper hypocritical…) That said, I get it; it's wrong. Please don't @me 😌 I more so wanted to posit a theory with you guys regarding Sam's "suicidal" (Shelley's word) insistence. It previously didn’t make sense to me either; now I think the part Sam's struggling with more – if I extrapolate a ton because I don't know if it'll ever be said – is the part that's angry with himself. If I take his actions into account, he simply *wasn't completely "ready to die." That's what we saw and what I think Shelley's circling around: if someone was hell bent on taking a particular action, no amount of "talking out of it" would stop that person... But Sam *did change his mind. Twice. Once because of his brother's appeal in that church – a brother who I think, to be fair, the majority of us believed made some very good points at the time -- and once because of Gadreel in the cabin after Death had said "it was Sam's choice."* (*Please don't misunderstand. I want to be clear. I'm not blaming Sam. I'm suggesting he may blame himself and may not be processing that.) We could certainly claim Dean took "Sam's choice" away because he didn't disclose that Sam was possessed by an angel. I'm on board with that. (Even though, again, I don't know if I'd personally have risked it… ugh, whatever, it's a tough one.) But Sam did make the choice(s) to live – yes, with heightened emotions on both sides, diminished physical state, insufficient information all around, etc., etc. – but objectively his choice. So I figure much of Sam's anger being aimed at himself for "allowing" himself to be swayed, and, at this point, without seeing a lot of good to have come out of his ongoing life, may be the reason for his insistence that he was ready to die. Saying he was when that's not what we saw is a selective memory, a way of processing the blame and anger Sam feels right now. Perhaps. … And this is the most I've ever thought about the "ready to die" refrain, so I'm very grateful to you all for the questions and comments you raise in our communal rewatch journey. Show keeps on givin'!
SKK
2022-01-24 01:09:48 +0000 UTCYes. Absolutely yes to everything you said here. Lol! Definitely couldn't have said it better, so I won't try. 😊
Linda Moore
2022-01-23 23:40:01 +0000 UTCI am sure the writers could have come up with a way that Sam’s death wouldn’t be permanent.
AdoptDontShopPets
2022-01-23 22:16:06 +0000 UTCI think so too, I think he said to hurt him because he is hurt and boy did he succeed.
sara b
2022-01-23 22:06:37 +0000 UTCSam clearly lied. He has said many times he would never let Dean die.
Helen Wood
2022-01-23 21:58:19 +0000 UTCWhen Sam took on the trials it was because for Dean it was a suicide mission. He wanted to do the trials and NOT die and at the end he did choose to live. I know some people think is because Dean emotionally bullied him to stop but I disagree, he wanted to live. At the end of the trials, he was completely drained , exhausted and overwhelmed. He felt he had let his brother down. When Dean told him there was nothing he would put in front of him, he chose to live. Now, do I think this was the right thing to do and they should have closed the gates of hell? Not sure...I've changed my mind several times and can't remember what my first reaction was. Then, at the hospital, I don't think Sam wanted to die. I think he had accepted it and wanted to make sure it was permanent so noone would hurt saving him, I'm guessing he meant Dean, and therefore stoping the vicious cycle of sacrifice that they are stuck on. But Dean did what he is preprogrammed to do and saved him. Dean did not understand why Sam wanted to die of all a sudden and to be fair, Sam did again choose to live when he said yes to fake Dean. The problem was the lying and the way in which it happened, not the saving...just my opinion. Now, in the last episode when Sam told him they couldn't be brothers, that really hurt Dean and now when he said he wouldn't do the same for him...well, he might as well just have stabbed him in the heart. Sorry it turned into such a superlong post.
sara b
2022-01-23 21:54:14 +0000 UTCWhile this is kind of a silly episode, I really loved your thoughts at the end. I think you are spot on about how Sam feels Shelley. And Dean taking away Sam's agency here must be really hard. After everything that has happened in Sn 4 and 6 you would think that Dean would understand why Sam is so angry. But Sam is right Dean did this more for himself than anything. And I understand where Sam is coming from about family. Any other siblings would consider each other toxic and pick a hemisphere. It's a tough situation, but Garth is right Dean is all hard on the outside and soft and loving on the inside. and nobody can hurt him more than Sam. Did you see the look on his face at the end, you just want to hug him and forgive him anything!
Brenda Lewis
2022-01-23 21:53:46 +0000 UTCShutting the gates of Hell would have killed Sam permanently. I just don't understand why you are angry that didn't happen. The whole point of the trials was that it culminated in the ultimate sacrifice. The choice was to lose Sam forever or to keep Hell. Dean's mistake was in trusting the wrong angel, not in saving his brother. Also, the world would not be better with Heaven and Hell both closed forever.
Helen Wood
2022-01-23 21:06:51 +0000 UTC
