Early access: Succeeding and failing to help scam victims

I think repeatedly pointing out that you were a stranger too may have worked against you. You basically flagged yourself as another questionable voice on the phone, and reinforced that message numerous times in an effort to demonstrate empathy, which is understandable and commendable, but in this situation it seems to have added to this guys confusion. I'd probably say that you monitor calls to detect imposters, that these were known for stealing money through gift card sales. Clear, numbered instructions: 1, Turn off the PC; 2, Call your bank to check the accounts; 3, Talk to you, or a relative if preferred, to log back in and remove unwanted programs. It needs to be less daunting and more easily achievable than the alternative (scammers instructions). People will always choose the straighter, shorter path. Keep up your amazing work, and never lose faith in yourself. You are a star 🌟

Sarah Ratty Pipkin

The question that should have been asked is "do you have a daughter or son or grandchildren who can help you with your computer?" When you asked about a friend, that could get varied results but a family member is different. When I worked tech support many years ago, sometimes the elderly would hand it to a kid who sounded probably 8 but prob younger who could do all the clicking that was necessary. Also helped with bilingual situations too!

Josh

I know my comment is a bit late to the party with this one. I have the same accent and it can be really challenging for some people when coupled with the speed we can talk at. I'd reccomend slowing your speech down and focusing on shorter phrases with key words. That way you can highlight the important bits like, "I work with computers. The people calling you want to steal (scam may not be familiar) your money. I can help you avoid losing your money. It's really important that you speak to your bank."

Jim wrote a note on the video stating that he should have simply given short clear instructions to him. I think that would have been all he needed.

I'm not sure an amped-up tone by Jim would have persuaded this poor man. Thomas' voice and manner is so like that of my father, who is in his 80s and battling dementia. He sounds confused. Jim's calm demeanor was probably the best thing to try to cut through the noise and confusion, but in the end it wasn't enough. Bless you for trying so hard, JIm.

Years ago had a scammer trying to get personal details over the phone. I kept refusing to give him any and in frustration he said "I just need one personal detail so I can know I am speaking to the right person." My reply was "I am wearing pink knickers .. is that personal enough?"He hung up.

There is no sense of urgency in your tone with the caller. Your natural cadence is quasi-monotone bordering on ASMR. This has its ups and downs :) It is possible to be calm and still impart urgency to a person, and many Americans struggle with your accent as well. I talked my friend's half-demented father down off this ledge once. I don't know if it will help you, but I'd have done the same thing with this guy. Basically what I said was, "Hi. Is there an Indian guy calling you telling you to send him gift cards? Yeah, they tried that on me, it's a scam. Was he in your computer showing your bank was missing money? Yeah that was all fake. He made it look like that to scam you. Don't buy any cards, and call your bank right now. Tell them what happened so you know everything's okay and they can be aware of him." Because it was my friend's father, or perhaps because he's half out-of-it, he never asked me my name. But these people, as you can see, respond to authoritative tones and directives. If you find your calming, rational and methodical approach isn't working, don't make suggestions. Give instructions. Or the scammers will. Hope that helps in some way.

Mike Verta

The way they shout and scream at them is horrendous.. I don't know how you can sit there and still sound so calm.. They really are complete B's... I had one call me from *windows*... I told them I had eight windows and the cleaner came on a thursday, he was £7.00 a week. They said computer windows, I sounded confused and said, oh you want to buy me a computer? No they said they were talking about the windows on my pc. I asked what pc? click. nothing.

This is better than any thriller I've ever seen on TV

Ben

He sounds like he wanted to trust you, Jim, to walk him through removing TeamViewer. You should have run with that, regardless of you being a stranger or not.

yes , i feel the same i cant watch these type videos too long because I get angry and it can affect my whole day , its made me racist towards Indians

Amen to all of the above brother

I’ve never come across a more contemptible person in all my years, if this was my grandfather, I’d be booking flights and hiring Jim for a locale to visit and I’d find his ass, Id do whatever it took to show this puke what a man is, and how a real man acts towards others in need. He’s extra lucky it wasn’t a woman cuz that would’ve made it even more difficult to stomach, which is something I just don’t get how these scummers can be raised, taught, socialized to a point where this is acceptable for a MAN to take part in. It says a lot about that culture, and I don’t care what anyone says, this wouldn’t be such a nonchalant way to carry themselves and go to work day in and day out perpetuating this type of activity on these people for years. We are doomed as a species with the rise of this type of ‘MAN’ Into adulthood, the workforce and family life. Truly doomed with these lost souls living their lives with a heart full of bile.

You are a good man. I am glad I am able to support you in what you do for all of us. You do make a difference.

Dave W

As stated above + he might not even have a clear understanding of what a scam/computer scam etc etc is. And I would guess this person is extremely scared by the time that you call and very confused because that scammer was a real pusher. So too much information too fast into a scared and confused mind who probably was kinda living in a blur.

Hi jim. Big fan of your work. I really think you did all you could. Some day maybe policing will catch up with technology and put things in place to help prevent this. but in the meantime your doing outstanding work. and far more than any other official organisation. Keep it up!

Simplifying the language would have helped here, and saying that you sound suspicious is just confusing. Saying something like, "They're trying to steal from you, everything is fine. Call your bank if you have questions." Without an explanation might have gone further. He doesn't care or know what the program names are or what the scam is, and all that additional information is too much for him to handle.

I know this is old, so I don't know if you'll get this. He didn't understand what was going on, and you threw far too much information at him at once. It's not your fault. You did what you could. But as a previous tech support agent, it just further confused him. I would guess he probably has memory problems as well, and someone should be helping to take care of him. But in dealing with older people who aren't familiar with computers and don't have a lot of support, they will tend to just respond with "yes" and like they understand, but they don't. You did what you could, don't beat yourself up about this. You tried your best, but some people are just too vulnerable, and there's nothing you can do, other than what you're doing to shut them down and stop them from doing this.

Watching this is so sickening.

First of all, you shouldn't regret as you tried your best to protect the victim. Great work done! That being said, it might be a good idea to do a little research on a victim and find out who is close to her. May be social media accounts can come handy. Then you may have tried reaching that person to convince him as he wasn't sharing anything with you. He even wasn't ready to share who is close to him.

Hi Jim, great work! You do an awesome job. Saw this video and thought about how do you scale yourself? If there was some ability to drive an automated message, might be useful. Otherwise you are right, trying to explain each time is hard as opposed to a very very succinct message that may come from an organisation that you could have authority to play. You did an automated message in one of your videos that was fantastic, the scammers spent a lot of money. Imagine you send to the same numbers you have infiltrated... a message from authorities... you could crowd fund the monthly dollars required to combat this via the automated message... might take some people out of the net... Some of these folks will listen to authorities just as they think the scammers are real

Really some people from the Indian Govt should have their attention drawn to all this because it is fouling up their image around countries like UK, USA, CANADA & AUSTRALIA as people think India = scam centres.

Maybe you need to connect with organisations that care - for the police to take that attitude is sad but predictable, I wonder if local care organisations would fare better. Certainly better awareness would help. I found your site through the bbc news site, there are lots of people who wish they could help but don't know what they can do, this video shows there is a significant amount they can do without being technical, they can speak to these folk in a language they understand and be trusted - if there was a network of supporters that you could delegate too then you could help so many more people Organisations like the red cross and st johns have thousands of volunteers - if they could start an education program and maybe local communities too - if someone in my town was being harassed in this way I would not hesitate to help them out. So a register that people can sign up to, bank employees , care workers etc etc . I really hope the bbc thing allows you to scale up, I saw a comment about why Indian call centres. Certainly the outsourcing industry has caused a pool of graduates that are educated and impoverished, wouldn't it be great if we could fund some of them to help fight these criminals.

I had another Idea, but that may be stupid, but if the victim was not convinced by the first (or 2nd Attempt) dial #31#[Number] and call them with suppressed number posing to be their Bank having a risk-alert and asking them to immediately stop what they where doing as it has patterns of know scams... and so on. "Yes, hello Mister XX Miller? We had an alert message from your Bank account ending with [xxxx], We would like to confirm with you that the last x Actions transferring your own assets between accounts was your doing and what the porous for that might have been. Please be aware that we've seen similar behaviour in recent Scams from India and therefore want to make sure that you as our customer stays safe." Yes that is stooping low, but it's a lie that might save them.

Dragendave

Being more open and honest might also help.. I know they are old and tech-a-phobes in some way.. but you might say it like: "I am actually right now in the scammers PC and watching, I got your Number from them and believe me when I tell you: They are not who they claim to be." or what not. Short and simple of course.. no complicated tech stuff. just simple "I am here to help out and save you from those Indian Scammers who try to steal your funds" .. (I know racism and all, but they are of a different generation where Racism was common and well practised.. China, Black, India... you know. Maybe that might help. From True US Guy to true US Veteran/Housewife).. Then again, I'm not a specialist.. I just had a Grandma who was as bewildered by the new age tech as them. She was certainly clever but forgetful and had of course no fundamental understanding of coding and hacking/TeamViewer/.. so she new to some extend how to use all that.. but not how it worked. Luckily she didn't touch anything that she didn't know of and kept to only her few webpages that she knew. :)

Dragendave

Thanks Kevin, I'll be using those techniques should this happen again. Jim

Jim Browning

I work in Physical Therapy and treat many elder patients who have degenerating cognitive abilities. When communicating with them ask direct close ended questions, not open like; “do you have anyone you trust”. Instead ask do you have a son or daughter. If yes. Do you know there phone number? If able to get it call them and conference them in.

You did all you could, you went above and beyond. Short of going to his house your hands were tied

Probably calling a local service that helps elderly people, like meals on wheels to talk to them? maybe the local cyber-crime division of the police? its hard sometimes to find people who cares, police are busy trying to police thought more than actual crimes... Thanks for all your help to these people.

Richard C. Perin

...perhaps, a simple youtube video explaining it, than maybe easear to say "please check this video" or "ask at counter of targert to check that video" shouldn't you at this point have some kind of connection with police? someone inside the force, that might help on this circunstace

Thank you everyone. There is some very good advice here and I hope that I'll be more effective if I'm in this position again.

Jim Browning

Yeah I agree with Rob, Jim. You were doing everything right but it was probably just too much at once. He's wasn't going to follow the team viewer uninstall, or syskey pin. Maybe in future just do what you can to insist they call their bank and say "I am not sure if I am being scammed, I need your help to check" or something. Also mate, in fairness - what you do is amazing and sadly with all the will in the world, you're not going to be able to help everyone.

For the 2nd guy, I got the feeling you were talking too much. He was just confused. Simple short sentences: "if you buy gift cards your money will be stolen. Just phone your bank. Do you understand?" Or maybe there was nothing that could be done.

Rob Fisher

It breaks my heart to hear these people being bullied and intimidated so callously. I hadn’t realised the scammers were so vicious. They are truly repulsive individuals and I can’t believe that they are forced by poor circumstances to act in this way anymore. Nobody listening to this recording could be in any doubt about the vileness of the criminal’s actions. The only thing that occurred to me that might have helped the poor gentleman was suggesting he walk to his nearest neighbour with Jim still on the phone and then explaining the situation to them and enlisting their help. I suppose if he knew what store he was planning to buy the gift cards in, then Jim might have contacted it’s manager and let them know to be on the look out for him and to ring the police once he arrived. I believe most people would have helped, if only they knew what was happening. I don’t know if any of this is helpful, I hope it is and I will only add bless you Jim Browning, you are a kind man.

Melissa Temple

When it comes to people like the 2nd guy who just don't listen I have found that you need to be more forceful sometimes. I'm not saying to yell at them like the scammers but you need to tell them what is going to happen if they get the gift cards. I would have asked questions to get him thinking like "When has a real company yelled and screamed at you like this?" "What is the reason you still are talking to these people and not your bank?" "When has a real company said that you can only pay in gift cards and can't accept real cash or credit cards?" "Do you realize that the only way to stop these calls is to not answer your phone?" "What is it about these people that make you want to lose all your money to them?" "Are you hoping they will go away if you just give them the gift cards because that will not happen. They will just call even more after you give them money. The only way to stop is to hang up the phone. Now call your bank and I don't want to see you talking to these people again!. Sometimes tough love is the only way of getting through to them.

If I were you, Jim, I would recommend those people to talk to the police. I liked the approach that you wanted to speak to someone they trust and I really like the way you talked and tried to explained. However, if they don't have someone to trust, it would be the easiest and trustiest thing for them, that you mediate between the victim and the police.

If he shows how it's done, the scammers will see it and work around his method. He can't make it public IMO

I would be really interested in a course on how to infiltrate these people Jim, have a community of activists doing what you do, as clearly the authorities and banks couldn't give a shit. Maybe its something you could think about..

Hello Jim, I’ve ask my wife to analyze this since she is working psychology, and more especially gerontology. And she wrote some advices on how to approach elderly people (which I believe was the case for the second video). Thank you for all you do. If you have more questions, even in the future, please contact me via email. Hey! First I'd like to say that what you do is very cool and noble. I have some thought about your approach if it can help: - I don't know if you cut the beginning but it sounds like you did not really introduced yourself properly and clearly but I could be wrong on that one. You could say for instance: "Hello sir, [Thomas right away is probably a bit creepy to him], I am xxxx, I take care of scams on the internet and it came to my attention that xxx contacted you about xxx is that right?). The fact that you're a complete stranger calling his number out of nowhere, knowing where he is heading and calling him by his name can be very intrusive and scary for an elderly person, as you mention it several times (I'll come back to that). So asking for his name or at least not be too much "I know that and that" could be less frightening at first in my opinion ^^ - You identified that you probably appear intrusive but you mentioned it wayyy too much and it probably had the opposite effect. This man focused most likely on "you're a stranger", "it is suspicious" so that you're someone he should not trust blindly. You should at first build trust (the scammers plays on fear, so reassure them, emotions will be easier to access than pure logic that he might not get at first, plus he is away from his computer). You know a lot, so you can be perceive as an intruder (I don't think he understood your exact intentions toward him) - Since he is an old man you should also make sure that he hears you properly (he asked to repeat a lot) and that he understands you. He is quiet a lot and asks stuff more than once (for example, he said multiple times that he got the scammers money, even though you already answered this). Keep in mind that as you age some of your cognitive functions are less effective like attention and working memory so the information you give over the phone away from the computer can be too much and too quick to process correctly (he could be also not good with computers so your explanation was maybe unclear to him, hard to say with his few answers). - When you ask if there is someone he trusts, the idea was not bad but maybe you could be more precise (and again not asking if you can contact them right away...too intrusive since he does not trust you or fully understand what you want at that point. Maybe something like "Sir, is there a family member or a friend near you that could help you figure this out with you in person?" - The other issue I see is he is away from the computer (which makes your attempt to explain harder and more likely to fail Cf. Cognitive functions). You might want to convince him to come back home to show him on his computer the step to follow (I know that's the hardest part but if you can make him trust you...it might be easier to help him with some guidance at home then). I know that for this specific case (2nd video), it was in a hurry and that this person was already on its way to buy the giftcards, but I’m talking more in general. I know it is easy to say but I hope it helped you a bit!

Hey Jim. Just a quick idea. I think you over informed Thomas. There's a certain art in being able to determine the right amount of information necessary to get your point across. Also I think you repeated yourself too often. Also your sentance structure was kind of confusing. All these things would be easy to understand for any slightly computer literary and sane person, but not for an elderly man who might already be "loosing it" (sorry for the crude ess, but it's true). There must be courses on this somewhere. Other than that though, you are a true unsung hero of the 21st century. Props to you...

Dude, how is this not a lie?

Hey Jim, I really love your work and hope I can support you a little bit with my donation. Maybe sometimes it would be a possible approach to contact the bank directly. The problem is, of course, that the bank is just as suspicious because they don't know you and don't know where you got this information from. Another idea (which you said yourself in the video) is that you might provide short but concise information to people who don't know anything about the whole issue. But I also think that it can be quite difficult when people are more or less shutting down on the inside because they are bombarded with calls from the scammers and you (as a stranger) try to convince them that this is fraud. Have you ever tried to find out anything about relatives of the victims. Maybe you sometimes achieve more here, like with the victims themselves. Many thanks for your work and keep up the good work! - Ben

Every potential victim saved is a win. Every person who has their eyes opened to the scams is a win. Governments don't protect through education anymore. Jim is a peaceful vigilante.

Syd

But how can a customer 'appear' vulnerable to a bank when using internet banking, even if such a duty of care existed in the USA? Also, banks don't want human contact; it costs money.

Syd

Can multiple people be connected to teamviewer at the same time? Can you disconnect the scammer, and lock them out by taking their place? Might make you liable though, so might not be the best idea

dans

The Gentleman was indeed socially vulnerable and had a limited computer literacy. Both conditions are extremely difficult to assess for remedial assistance in the very short period of time given to you and almost impossible to achieve at a distance without a great deal of luck Jim. You spoke very therapeutically to the gentleman and came to an accurate assessment of his limited personal situation. Its true briefer instructions may have helped but you would then be in a way in competition with the scammers tact and been perceived as intimidating and demanding and not the calm measured voice of reason, which is your main strength and defining quality. Also the attribute with which you are going to catch these B@s#ards. Any further interventions would, I think, would have had to be a lot more intrusive and could generate an even worse crisis for the victim and also be less controllable. As well as showing your hand to the perpetrators as you mention in the comments. Someone called you a Super Hero above. Well you are facing the same dilemmas .... ... do you save Lois Lane or destroy the Nuclear Missile. Sometimes you can't do both. It's unfortunate you are fighting a war with sometimes conflicting goals. Maybe the kindest lesson to be learned from this disturbingly aggressive den of scammers is to look out for your own emotions.. God..! I really felt that one and I was not invested like you, just a concerned spectator. I can really empathise with how helpless that made you feel. I have a couple of Ideas that might be of use but I keep playing them through in my head and they get far too intrusive and potentially destructive. I will keep tweaking them to see if I can get them to pass a risk assessment. Good Luck and Good Hunting. Kindest regards Gerard. Kaplah.!

JediBhuddist

There is a sad thing when one (JIM) decides to cross the thick line between collecting views fishing catch and release style and waiting by the pond for potential victims. The views collectors aren't interested in the scam to stop, their views depend on them. The victim savior want to save the victims. The former prejudicial interventionist in me knows that only by erradicating the problem in the pond will prevent victim occurances. As painful as it is, only a concerted strike at the predator and make certain recidives aren't possible will solve the issue. Jim isn't a governement, nor the Interpol, nor some country secret service dedicated to protecting citizens (does such a thing exist?). I know there are mechanisms that exist but I do not know what they are (Richie seems to know something interesting) and if they are even interested to act and cross the red tape and prevent such crimes while they occur (banks will be protected but not people). One of the victims seems to be Canadian, The RCMP has a financial crime unit, A colab could be interesting. This is an economical war between "India" (laxism and inaction is guilt) and other countries. Jim is only one guy, a wonderful one but still, a one man army has to strike very hard to make a difference and India will only act if Indians are victims.

Only other suggestion i can think of is if you can edit the scammers phone system, to redirect the outgoing number to some bogus number. Maybe register some bogus extension that routes it to a nonexisting phone number or something. It is a longshot

dans

Hi Jim, re Thomas, next time keep it simple. I think you gave him too much information which he couldnt process. As Syd suggested, just tell him you are an investigator and noticed some activity on his account and not to send Gift Cards to anyone he doesn't know. You are doing great work! Keep it up!

Christine Daley

I can't comment on USA Jim, but I work for a UK company and we have a legal duty of care when dealing with customers who appear vulnerable. I'm not in the banking business but my company deals with insurance-based products and we not only have a duty of care to protect customers from third parties and fraud but also from themselves If we believe they're unable to make an informed decision. Most banks and blue chip companies within the UK would have the same duty of care.

Sometimes there simply isn't an effective way to help the more vulnerable in society, try as we might. With my bank, if I input the wrong password/login three times, I am locked out and have to call them. An email to their bank fraud dept maybe in order. You can provide them with some evidence and tell them they are now complcit in any fraud commited on the individual as you have made them aware.

Wow. Both these calls were painful--I want to strangle these scammers!--but especially the second one. Sadly, you can't save the world. The individual in the second call is clearly cognitively impaired. I don't believe you could have done any better with him than you did. But it's wonderful that you made the effort.

Thanks - now corrected.

Jim Browning

I have two aims; to help the victims and to monitor the scammers to learn who they are and where they are. If I make it too obvious that I control their machines, I'll lose the ability to find out who they are. I still have access and I now know exactly who they are and now what they look like. I'll have no problem restarting their machines at this point.

Jim Browning

Agreed Doug. The difficulty with just killing the TeamViewer session is that the scammer would just keep their phone calls going. For most people, when I explain it's all a scam, they twig and block/ignore all calls from the scammer. In this case, the bombardment of calls must have got to this victim. To me, the only way to have prevented this would be to have someone else help. I'll keep the messages short and direct next time though.

Jim Browning

Weird how this guy was away from his computer. Why couldn't you interract with Thomas' session like you have with others? The problem is that you are treating the victim as if they were as suspicious as you. They are nothing like you! By definition of being a scam victim, they are naive and gullible (or have been caught off guard). It might be most effective if you were a 'security agent/guard' in England (you could try Scotland) trying to prevent internet crime and have been 'alerted to the activity'. Don't even bother trying to explain how you can see their remote connection (anyway, you are not allowed to explain how you do this due to security reasons - if they want proof, just quote a number from their bank account balance or something). Most people gullible enough to be scammed will believe you. Also, it is not a lie, and that will make you more comfortable and convincing. Don't dig a hole you can't get out of, don't pretend to be from the bank and don't pretend to be police (police would contact the bank). Maybe use the line that you are a private investigator monitoring the internet who has been following the criminal gang for a while. Anything that is a) a bit familiar, b) gets the intention across quickly, c)close to the truth. You're a superhero, Jim!

Syd

Jim, the blur for the first victim’s credit card details cuts out too early and exposes her details. Check about 16 minutes in.

Good advice. Thank you Mike.

Jim Browning

Thanks Rosemary... Echos a lot of the comments. I'll try the short and instructional approach if I encounter a similar situation. Thanks, Jim

Jim Browning

I didn't think this was possible, but I could be wrong... Does anyone know for sure? I use 'Gaussian blur' with a minimum 50% blurring.

Jim Browning

Thank you so much for your work ! I tahini that you would ned to talk to the victim alkostopp like the scammers do. Not yelling but being very directive. This old man was lost and confused. He took the advice of the one harassing and being very clear in his instructions...

Thank you for this Kathryn. This is exactly the feedback that I was looking for. It's good to have advice from someone with your background giving me feedback like this. Of course I'll not always be able to tell who is who immediately, bit I'll definitely use these suggestions the next time around. Thank you!

Jim Browning

Paying for something would reveal information about who they are. It is far safer for them to use a free version. I'm glad to see that TeamViewer are restricting their free product, but it would help if they required bank details even to use the free version.

Jim Browning

Funny, I've used the 'Im from the bank' line before because it's more believable than the real truth. The downside is that I encourage people to talk to their real banks and it could lead to confusion and a suspicion that I'm also trying to get the victim's money. Ho hum.

Jim Browning

Jim, you can't save everyone, you do more than enough. Maybe try lying a bit and say that you are from the bank HQ and need him to contact his branch ASAP and explain what has happened. Tell him that you don;t have time to ring the branch because you have a lot of customers to save.

Is there a way at all you can transfer an executable to the victims desktop that restarts the machine? You'll learn how to be more to the point when speaking to victims. I think what lacked here was brevity

Howard Crane

Wait, wait. These guys are too cheap to pay for premium Teamviewer? How damn successful is this distraction technique!? If I were to think like a sociopath, I'd decide that one failed scam will cost me a lot more than Teamviewer lol

Howard Crane

Dear Jim, you are wonderful! With the second call, I would second what Mike said. Also, someone without cognitive impairment would understand why you were saying they might not trust you, and I know how you don’t want to act like a scammer - winning someone’s trust. You were very careful not to do that. As I listened it was painful hearing you tell the victim not to trust you, but to call the bank. I could tell he didn’t have any idea what to do when he was to call the bank. He really did need to be able to trust you. I used to work in emergency search and rescue. In dealing with an urgent situation, I had to obtain the person’s rapid trust in me, so I could save them. I didn’t say anything about why they might not want to trust me - that would only cause confusion. When someone is frightened, they can freeze. Someone presenting as caring, “don’t worry I am here to help you”, will save a life. “First step is turn off your computer.” (Minimal reasons why). Next step, “let’s call your bank now. I want you to listen”. (Call the bank and explain the situation with the victim listening via speakerphone or conference call.). Perhaps the bank can arrange greater security on victim’s account, as well as joining you in reassuring the victim no funds were removed, and affirming that victim should not buy gift cards for the scammer. Next, you should have the victim’s trust by now, so you can say “now we need help to stop the scammers from calling you.” No wavering at being unworthy for the victim to trust you - you make the decision and say the next step is to call (someone) who can block the scammers from calling, and help the victim with security, so he doesn’t have to worry. And so on. You are worthy of trust, you are there to help. Don’t try so hard to not obtain the person’s trust - that’s how you lose people. You are not an awful person for needing the victim to trust you as quickly as possible. Your calm, gentle voice is perfect. Just please don’t tell them not to trust you, especially the elderly. I understand why you undermine yourself. Scammers are awful and you want this person to understand they have free will. Cognitive impairment makes it impossible for the elderly or traumatized people to think rationally or clearly. All they want is to get out of a frightening and overwhelming situation. If they have your trust, if you clearly and simply go step by step, with minimal explanations, if you reassure them that you are here to help... your chances of saving the victim skyrockets. I hope this makes sense. This is my first time posting on patreon: every time I hit return to make a paragraph, it posts, so my apology if this is difficult to read. You are my hero Jim! Thank you for your wonderful work!

K M

Forgive me for my possible ignorance, but from what I remember, if you know exactly what blurring technique or software was used to blur details, you can design an algorithm that deblurs the data by applying the same blurring steps but in reverse. In case I'm right, do you take any precautions to make sure the data in your videos can't be deblurred?

Eric Oaks

First of all, do not feel like you failed if you cannot save every scam from happening. It is already incredible what you're doing, and it is bound to fail sometimes, I'm afraid. I think, like you pointed out in the video, short clear instructions might help indeed. Another thing I would perhaps advice is to give them time to either phone their bank or someone they trust. However, I get that that also gives the scammers more time to get back in contact with him, which is also wrong. Perhaps doing something to the scammer's side of things (calling them, or on their computer) could be useful. I'm not sure if that's possible, but holding them back to give the victim a few minutes to call someone they trust could be useful. Perhaps pointing out that you 'probably sound suspicious' can be good, but in situations like this it might be better to keep it, like you said, short and simple. If they themselves point out suspicion towards you, you can elaborate then, etc. I think some extra time helps in this, as they can take a moment to take in what's going on. At this point they probably don't have access to their computer, but maybe they do to another device, and they could even google about the scam that's going on (depending on how trusting they are of you / the scammer at this point). Again, I think that what you've been doing and did in this video is already great, and sometimes you just couldn't have done any differently. Keeping it short and simple, but also calm like you already do, might help, but again, you never know. If they can get into contact with a trusted person, that is probably the best way to get them to believe you.

Thanks for the early access. I’m so pleased to support your work, and I wish I could afford to contribute more but as a pensioner myself (albeit with an IT background) cash is limited. Thoughts on the second video: - The victim is very vulnerable due to their age and lack of IT knowledge, and trying to explain what the scammers were up to and what the victim needed to do was probably never going to be successful. I think your on screen comment was right – too much time was spent trying to explain when it might have been better to simply impress on the victim the need for them to call their bank and/or the police. Was there any way you could have disabled teamviewer or shut-down the PC remotely as you were doing in the first video with the Mac?

Doug Edworthy

Hi Jim, firstly thank you for trying to stop this scum. Clearly, and increasingly, some victims will have a level of cognitive impairment, frailty etc. I think Jessica A-M made some good points. My suggestions come from working for 2.5 decades in the NHS older peoples mental health services. My suggestions would be to lessen information. Use shorter sentences. Avoid lots of connecting words such as and, because, if. Use emotive more memorable words (in UK), such as Thieves, con artists, fraudsters, stealing your money. They are trying to trick you....Phone your bank now and check. Etc........I will phone you back in ten minutes. Etc......Yes, phoning someone who can help these poor victims as you said......sometimes they have no one, they are unwell, or just too embarrassed.

Bumble Bee

Poor guy in the 2nd call man, these scammers make me so sick :(

Shevchenko

Maybe call the bank and alert staff to the scam. Most banks will block an account and attempt to contact the account holder even if the caller is not a signatory. I’d call the bank and pretend to be a worried friend. The scammers seemed to only have limited access to his internet banking, perhaps because the bank has already restricted features (such as sending funds out) or maybe because it requires two-factor.

Or redeem the cards yourself then contact target etc.

Maybe cut the audio out every now and then so they can't get the numbers?

Sometimes with these victims who are being targeted, they are struggling to understand everything happening already and learning it's a scam is a lot of information. I would change how much information you give them, keep it very short and friendly. Don't over describe. Here's what I would have said and done with Thomas. "Hi, Thomas. I heard the man/woman telling you to buy a gift card. My name is Jim and I'd like to help you keep your money. First, can you please shut off your computer?" (Once it's off.) "Good, now why don't we call your bank?" And then connect with the bank and explain the situation as if you were a friend of his. Some banks can block transactions until the customer calls to verify it. The fraud department will also be able to assist. You can hit me up in the Discord under Chaos if you'd like help with these sorts of relations. I have a background with custom service and am generally pretty good at making things very simple when explaining stuff. I could write you some good scripts to use in these cases. In continuing, if you're able to remotely add things to the computer, maybe you could leave an image file behind of step by step for uninstalling. It's an extra step but I'm sure someone would be able to put together a file for you. Sometimes people they are targeting are suffering from mental confusion or potential other illnesses. When you asked if he had a friend, he may not have thought of family. A line to use could have been, "Do you have a friend or family member you trust to help with your computer?" Once he said yes "Do you have their number?" Or if he said no, "What about a neighbor or caregiver?" Still saying no would be odd for most people but then you might offer to help if you are able to. Even if you are reluctant since you are a stranger. The tactics these scammers use are about being in power and taking the power from the victim but being a friendly person is just as powerful. Alternative way to help, ask where he plans to buy the gift card and call them to warn them.