Early Access Video: The Plastic Meyer Vise
Added 2020-11-07 12:00:04 +0000 UTCFriends:
Welcome to the second installment of Vise Squad!
This week, I'm looking at the almost-forgotten plastic vise once sold by Sears and Roebuck. These vises were sold under various names and they promised to let people get started in woodwork for only a few dollars.
Sound too good to be true?
Well, come along as I try to do actual woodworking with a few pieces of plastic. It's not exactly what you'd expect.
Happy Saturday!
--Rex
Comments
I started to work on these parts. I found a couple of others that I'll check out and remix into one. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4713990
ZeroCatOrder
2021-01-07 19:49:15 +0000 UTCSeems like the patent has expired.
Brett Bullman
2020-11-20 18:09:43 +0000 UTChttps://patents.google.com/patent/US4157819A/en
Brett Bullman
2020-11-20 18:09:20 +0000 UTCI didn't see it. Post again?
Spencer Stephens
2020-11-17 19:52:02 +0000 UTCAh, the Jethro Bodine of college!
ERIC LERZ
2020-11-16 13:56:21 +0000 UTCI've watched the CNC crowd use cams on youtube, but this video legitimized the whole idea of a flat mounted vise. I've got an apartment-sized workspace and I've been thinking about a combination benchtop and shooting board for a long time, really not much different than what Rex improvised, but I was always assuming I'd have to hang a vise off the side. I still might, but the possibility of an all-surface based system could be a game changer. If this guy: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4651858 is starting down the 3d printing path, why can't we get variations with higher heights? It seems like a double-height fence/cam combo would reduce the wobble on vertically held boards.
WH
2020-11-15 15:05:10 +0000 UTCRex this seems to be an early version of a Festool MFT system though cams have been used for years. Everyone who has used a fence on a machine has used some form of cam. The main thing that predates even cams is wedges which have been used to hold wood for centuries. This style cam is also used a lot in CNC work holding. What surprises me is how surprised you were on how effective they are. There are many cam designs on Thingiverse for those who have access to 3d printers. Well done Rex for reminding us of these.
WoodworkLearner
2020-11-11 00:07:46 +0000 UTCThanks! I see it. Appreciate your efforts.
Bob Besaha
2020-11-10 23:07:28 +0000 UTCif my link with a pic disappears, just google stanley clamping miter box
Tater Schuld
2020-11-10 21:04:55 +0000 UTCthought I posted a pic of the ones I just printed they work, but not perfectly
Tater Schuld
2020-11-10 21:03:33 +0000 UTChttps://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/8115tNM8vWL._AC_SL1500_.jpg black parts are cam locks. the base of the yellow is riddled with holes
Tater Schuld
2020-11-10 21:01:34 +0000 UTCEven further, why not use 2 of the same handed cams in the vertical situation, so that downward pressure would push both tighter?
Duncan Haigh
2020-11-10 20:41:10 +0000 UTCWould you happen to have a link to a photo of this?
Bob Besaha
2020-11-10 18:59:13 +0000 UTCThought that might be the case. Cheers chap 👍
Matt
2020-11-10 07:50:22 +0000 UTCMaybe, but not much. I wouldn't worry.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-10 00:44:06 +0000 UTCalso, if you 3d print design this, you can have them use standard 3/4" bench dogs
Tater Schuld
2020-11-09 23:10:43 +0000 UTCstanley miter box uses this clamping setup
Tater Schuld
2020-11-09 22:57:09 +0000 UTCQuick question... Would the cams bruise softer woods?
Matt
2020-11-09 19:22:43 +0000 UTCNever seen anything like that in the UK. Not in second hand stores, car boots or backs of garages collecting spiders. Interesting.
Matt
2020-11-09 19:21:58 +0000 UTCWhen you chopped that mortise you used a ‘conventional’ chisel not a big mortise chisel... do I NEED a mortice chisel to chop the occasional mortise?
Adrian Abshire
2020-11-09 16:52:21 +0000 UTCHey Rex, thanks for the scanned this vise for us. I will post pictures of my first attempt at building it. For the record, when I said "your version" I didn't mean the one you bought. I was referring to a modified version you would come up with... a "re-imagining" if you will. I've watched your channel long enough to know that you have a list of improvements in your head for this guy. lol.
Scott Masson
2020-11-09 15:40:39 +0000 UTCIt just seems more work to install the holes than I'd ever get out of it. Maybe in a production shop they're more useful... And I just balk at spending serious cash on what is essentially a layout jig.
A1BASE
2020-11-09 15:39:13 +0000 UTCThat is an excellent idea...I think that will work well
William Fishburne
2020-11-09 14:09:10 +0000 UTCSurely, it’s worth experimenting!
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:19:09 +0000 UTCWell, I guess seven years of graduate school wasn’t a complete waste of time!
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:18:33 +0000 UTCThat totally sounds like it would work!
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:17:58 +0000 UTCMaybe I can lay the whole thing on my scanner and just take a picture. Stay tuned.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:17:24 +0000 UTCI’m afraid peg board would not work. The spacing and size of the holes is all wrong. Honestly, using a regular twist bit was just fine.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:16:26 +0000 UTCWell, Dave and I are both bald and both living in Ohio, and we have woodworking channels. There the resemblance ends.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:14:03 +0000 UTCThe holes need to be 3/8 and on 2” centers. I’m not aware of any boards that come that way. Making the work-surface really wasn’t a big deal.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:12:59 +0000 UTCI admit, I did not design that bench with a tail-vise in mind. The bracing underneath does make adding things tricky. Several companies making surface-mounted wagon-vise. I believe Veritas makes a nice one.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:11:32 +0000 UTCYou’re completely right. It’s all doable.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:09:17 +0000 UTCThe main reason to ensure your dog holes are perfectly aligned is for the people that use them to align for crosscuts with a tracksaw... you can set up for 90's and 45's with just the dog holes, and with a protractor to align the track can do any angle. It basically gives you the world's widest miterbox, and pretty darn accurate too. Using them for track-guided routing makes all the sense in the world as well. EDIT: But the main reason I was suggesting it is that it seems easier & faster than drawing & marking your tabletop. Some scrap with holes as a template would be faster as well, of course.
Evan Van Dyke
2020-11-09 13:08:49 +0000 UTCThose seem very popular, but I admit I don’t really see the need for one in my own shop. Everyone works differently.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:07:37 +0000 UTCThat’s a fine little write up, but maybe a bit too glowing.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:06:50 +0000 UTCAgreed!
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:03:01 +0000 UTCMike’s video is amazing. I can’t count the number of times I’ve watched it.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:02:33 +0000 UTCIt’s totally my pleasure!
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:01:40 +0000 UTCI think you would need to rotate the whole setup 90°. I need the piece parallel to me so I can tell if the chisel is plumb. It’s certainly worth playing with.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 13:00:59 +0000 UTCCarving probably is a good application, although if you apply force along the fence, it tends to let go.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 12:59:09 +0000 UTCBoth of those systems do indeed look nice, but I admit that I’ve never felt a need for them. I think they’re particularly good if you do a lot of routing, but that’s just my quick impression.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 12:58:16 +0000 UTCSome gimmicks work. Mach 3 razor anyone?
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 12:57:09 +0000 UTCI might! I think I would use plywood. I’ve made cams from it before.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 12:56:23 +0000 UTCI think these would be also an excellent candidate for CNC machining. You could make everything out of a big sheet of ABS plastic or plywood. The originals look injection-molded to me, but there are far cheaper technologies available now.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 12:55:36 +0000 UTCYou absolutely could!
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 12:53:50 +0000 UTCIt’s totally my pleasure!
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 12:53:09 +0000 UTCThere’s no question that you could build one of these. I’m not sure they would be high on the project list. For the cams, I would use high-quality plywood to avoid any short-grain weakness.
Rex Krueger
2020-11-09 12:52:43 +0000 UTCI'd be curious to see if it performed better cutting tenon's if you switched the left and right cams (we all know the directions are mainly suggestions anyway, right?). Right now, downward pressure from sawing will try to rotate the top cam in the direction that unlocks it. If you switched them, I would think with the other cam there, the downward pressure would actually rotate the cam to apply more pressure as the wood was pushed down.
Brian King
2020-11-08 19:13:36 +0000 UTCJust a complement on your precise and pleasant delivery of your topics in grammatically correct English. Kudos to you and you are definitely worth supporting. Enjoy your humor also!
Robert Horn
2020-11-08 18:58:32 +0000 UTCThis would work well for surface clamping workpieces for carving. You could clamp it to a piece of old countertop using 2 sets at 90° from each other and turning the whole thing as you work, instead of clamping it to the top of a bench and then needing to reclamp every time you want to attack it from a different angle.
Michael Bennett
2020-11-08 04:14:12 +0000 UTCThis was my exact thought. The roughness of the 3d-surface could even improve the holding power
Brendan Wells
2020-11-08 03:27:14 +0000 UTCHey Rex, I really like this vise. It just might be the right solution for certain tasks in my limited workspace. I've looked online, and these are not an easy thing to find. I may just have to try to make one of my own. Of course, I would be interested to see what your version of this vice would be. I would download those plans and build it. lol.. Just a thought. Keep up the great work!
Scott Masson
2020-11-08 02:54:19 +0000 UTCI love it when you find one of these 'lost' items and run it through a test. Always honest and fun to watch. Would a brad point bit work easier for drilling the holes and could you use peg board for your grid pattern? I made something like this many years ago out of a board and some crude cams for a panel glue up, Never thought to use it for anything else. Now I need to make another one! Thanks again Rex and have a good week ahead.
Matt Evans-Koch
2020-11-08 02:06:00 +0000 UTCGot a new TV so I was watching this in the living room with my wife. It was her first time seeing you, so I mentioned that you were one of the people I support on Patreon. She thought you presented really well, but thought you needed a goatee and or a baseball hat...guess I need to go watch a Make Something video. ;)
Jason Bailey
2020-11-07 21:10:57 +0000 UTC3d printing this clamp should be really doable, also making it with plywood or something. maybe with longer arms on the cams for easier tighting.
Alex Southwell
2020-11-07 21:04:32 +0000 UTCDoes anyone know about any prefab boards with larger holes in them? Could you buy a couple of sheets of peg board and laminate them together for a very quick work surface with small dog holes (puppy holes?)
Alex Southwell
2020-11-07 21:03:49 +0000 UTCI know this is only slightly on-topic, but I've been thinking about a tail vise for the English Joiners Bench. I've built the bench and am working on the leg vise now. I picked up a kit for a moxon vise (https://taytools.com/products/moxon-vise-hardware-kit-with-2-each-8-inch-x-3-4-10-threaded-rods-not-acme-threads-2-each-4-1-2-inch-cast-knobs-and-4-each-3-4-inch-nuts-and-washers?afmc=26&utm_campaign=26&utm_source=leaddyno&utm_medium=affiliate) and as I was looking at the system, I thought it might work for a tail vise kind of like this one (https://eclecticmechanicals.files.wordpress.com/2019/01/moravian-tail-vise-install-1.pdf). Of course, not as fancy and since it is not acme threaded, I'm not sure it would work for both push and pull (I'm not entirely sure how that works). It might be a start...maybe use nuts embedded in braces built from 2x4 to hold the ends in place. Still have no idea for how to build a carriage for the pipe that is at a 90 degree angle to the screw, but maybe that is wood with a treaded insert or something like that. There isn't a lot of space on the end of the bench, but I think having a couple of inches of travel would probably be fine for me.
William Fishburne
2020-11-07 16:59:44 +0000 UTCOne thing I have plenty of is smaller scraps of wood. The old boys used to use pegs and wedges , pegs (dogs) in dog holes to block one side of work and wedges against dogs or battens against dogs for the other. Same principle, could even saw out some cam wheels (round wedges) out of hardwood. Stick a 3/4" peg through the middle of a wood cam wheel and you don't need to drill a million little holes, or make a fixture like your laminate board w 3/4" holes so that your system would work on your bench too...just spitballing here;)
John Griswold
2020-11-07 16:29:22 +0000 UTCAdditional benefit of making your own is that you're not limited to that size. You can make one to that size but if you know you'll be needing more clamping area on one piece you can make a bigger base. Yes, you can use multiple "small" ones, but it's good to have options, right?
Chris Ottenberg
2020-11-07 16:26:21 +0000 UTCYou would need to print the pins on their sides, but it does work with plastic as we've seen :D The other side could work with just pins I think and you can have some pieces of wood for fitting....
Giorgos Giagas
2020-11-07 15:51:46 +0000 UTCThis reminds me of the PARF guide system Matt Estlea showed a while back. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0QybYFDBoQ)
A1BASE
2020-11-07 15:49:57 +0000 UTCI think I'd want to use either steel pins or wood dowels as I'm not sure how strong they would be if 3D printed. Time to get the Prusa out methinks............
Mad Hamish
2020-11-07 15:42:51 +0000 UTCHere is a link to an article about it in the October 1982 issue of Popular Science. https://books.google.com/books?id=ia91vNwYgLIC&pg=RA2-PA91&lpg=RA2-PA91&dq=meyer-vise&source=bl&ots=kyU8rfuwBQ&sig=ACfU3U1y6FprzGnrZRWOkdhlYCrNJebr_A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwijr5Op3fDsAhWFdc0KHRkyBSYQ6AEwEHoECAkQAg#v=onepage&q=meyer-vise&f=false
Charles Hampton
2020-11-07 15:20:29 +0000 UTCI'm ok with it not working well for sawing or chiseling, just the surface clamping is amazing enough. I agree this could be made easy enough out hardwood and dowels.
Brett Masek
2020-11-07 15:08:26 +0000 UTCI was thinking the same thing
Brett Masek
2020-11-07 15:05:04 +0000 UTCI like it! Very entertaining video. I am tempted to homemake one of these. Battens though, are the old school method. I still like to run Mike Siemsen's video on vice-less work holding - just to strengthen my memories of what is possible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhn-PAfEW4&ab_channel=MikeSiemsen Truth be told, I try to use battens, I am not very good with them, and they often interfere with the clutter I inevitably have on my bench. This vice would be easier to organize on the bench. And, it does look really good for flat clamping. I do a lot of small panels from 4x and 6x boards. This might be very handy.
Michael Ross
2020-11-07 15:04:45 +0000 UTCHey, Rex-you could’ve titled this vid “Plastic Fantastic!” I don’t recall ever seeing this and if I did, I probably laughed it off as some gimmicky joke-but I guess the joke was on us. This gizmo seems to really do the job for most tasks, and the clamping for glue ups seems like a good option. Of course, like most of the others commenting here, I’d be interested in making one of these some day and maybe melamine-our favorite new composite-could even be used as material for it, if not hardwood. I agree that if someone had to do some work with a portable bench set-up or an apartment set-up, this could get the job done for a bit. Thanks again!
Sean O'Neill
2020-11-07 15:01:13 +0000 UTCRex when you were chiseling out the mortise I was wondering if rotating the piece 90° and putting one end grain side against the fence with the two cams applying side pressure would help it not want to slide when cleaning up the bottom of mortise or dado or whatever. Also wonder if using it the same way on the apron would help with cutting tenons. I for one would like to know the exact measurements for the fence piece and just one cam, that way I could use this on the knock down bench im building so as not to really need hold fasts and dogs as quickly. And if I can use it as a built in shooting board that would be a bonus because that's one less rig to build right away.
The Poor Man
2020-11-07 14:47:05 +0000 UTCI was actually thinking the same thing, maybe we should ask Rex for a Tip sheet on it so we can build one. Although it looked like a half inch board about 12 in long and 5 wide with knotches placed at 1 inch intervals for the peg, and how hard could making a cam actually be?
The Poor Man
2020-11-07 14:40:38 +0000 UTCI was thinking exactly the same thing while watching the video. Mainly because I don't trust plastic to have a very long lifespan. And if it's made out of wood, you can always make a new part if one would fail...
Frans van Ballegooijen
2020-11-07 14:39:29 +0000 UTCI never heard of this. Would also be great for relief carving, especially small pieces. Thanks Rex
Mark Petersen
2020-11-07 13:28:50 +0000 UTCWow - this is really close to the festool MFT and their surface clamp systems. If you are going to drill a top like this you might consider the Parf system. It's designed for 20mm holes, but... The festool MFT clamps work pretty well - I have used them myself. Not sure I'd call it a vise, but it's not bad either.
Evan Van Dyke
2020-11-07 13:21:32 +0000 UTCImpressive Rex. Looked like a complete gimmick.
Gareth McMahon
2020-11-07 13:18:39 +0000 UTCRex why not try making one out of hard wood love your channel
rhett mills
2020-11-07 13:11:59 +0000 UTCThis looks like a very good fit for 3d printing.
Giorgos Giagas
2020-11-07 13:05:13 +0000 UTCIf you have a batten, and you do, turning out a couple of cams with scraps and a dowel to fit existing dog holes would work just fine. Make different size cams for varying travel.
Bill Brisky
2020-11-07 12:59:03 +0000 UTCThis was just what I wanted for my Sat morning waiting for it to be time to start working. Thanks Rex!
Andrew Parsons
2020-11-07 12:52:02 +0000 UTCOne could, I'm guessing, make a similar system from a hardwood of choice that would use a standard dog hole system. Thus cutting out the need to make a whole new work surface.
Chris Ottenberg
2020-11-07 12:50:42 +0000 UTC
