Early Access Video: Fixing a Premium Plane
Added 2020-08-15 11:00:04 +0000 UTCFriends:
A few weeks ago, a viewer emailed me to say that he'd bought a Lie Nielsen handplane and it wouldn't cut. This seemed odd, to say the least, but he also wanted to send me the plane to diagnose.
I could not say no.
What follows is a deep dive into the mechanics of this tool. It's a longer video, but I promise it's worth looking at. There are so many details in plane making; so many things to go wrong. The results of all this testing and tweaking are....interesting.
Hope everyone is well!
--Rex
Comments
Yep...Proper sharpening will do more for using a plane...except of course...proper adjustment. A perfectly sharp iron is of no value in a misadjusted plane. Like most things in life, the two things are synergistic and need both to work properly.
Bruce Rose
2020-08-23 20:16:53 +0000 UTCRex we are all here as apprentices especially to "some doofus on the internet"...
The Super-wrench Garage
2020-08-23 11:58:17 +0000 UTCThe topic didn't excite me, but after I watched the video, I tightened the frog and choked up the chipbreaker on my vintage Stanley #4, and now I can successfully plane construction grade pine with lots of reversing grain direction without tear out. So cheers!
Stephen Cannon
2020-08-23 04:15:43 +0000 UTCThank you Rex. Your detailed description of the working and setup of a hand plane is, as always, wonderful. Your view of the craft is spot on (for me) and makes me wish that I had started decades ago- but then I wouldn't have had you as a mentor!
Jerry
2020-08-22 05:06:28 +0000 UTCOh, yeah. For sure! Love those videos of you doing that and I hope to do so, too sometime. I meant like when you went to different flea markets or antique places, if you’ve gotten a plane base here and a frog there and put them together with the matching parts. Someone on the discourse site said it was called a”harlequin” plane. I had heard that term before, but didn’t know what it meant. Just curious, that’s all. I did it recently with a transitional plane and a 1930’s era Stanley number 5. Let’s just say, it was more expensive than I thought it would be!
Sean O'Neill
2020-08-21 23:57:51 +0000 UTCYes thanks. I have 2 (one I bought decades ago because my father had one, and the other I inherited from my father). One is set up as a smoothing plane and the other more as a jack plane. I just need to get the confidence to square up the bevel and resharpen the iron in the smoothing one. The jack plane iron I got more curved than square but that works for what I need it for
David Coxon
2020-08-21 23:38:08 +0000 UTCA few people have made the point that a chipbreaker will keep even a mediocre plane from tearing out, even with the open mouth. There's an article in Mortise and Tenon Magizine that's very worth readong.
Rex Krueger
2020-08-21 23:18:24 +0000 UTCI hope it's working great for you!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-21 23:16:22 +0000 UTCMust have been during the Premiere period. You can watch it now.
Rex Krueger
2020-08-21 23:16:06 +0000 UTCThank you for being here! Welcome to the community!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-21 23:15:40 +0000 UTCThose are both hilarious stories! I'm kind of shocked that the LN demo plane choked. They generally do seem to work out of the box.
Rex Krueger
2020-08-21 23:15:22 +0000 UTCUm, I've built several planes from scratch, both in wood and other materials. Does that count?
Rex Krueger
2020-08-21 23:14:19 +0000 UTCRex-I don’t know if this is the right forum for this question, so if it’s not let me know-I’m new to all this, but...Have you ever “built” a plane by getting the individual parts/assemblies and putting it all together, then tuning it?
Sean O'Neill
2020-08-20 14:26:01 +0000 UTCI attended a LIe-Nielsen demo at a Woodcrafters years ago. The host cracked open a fresh box of LN smoother, adjusted the blade and applied it to a piece of oak. It choked. Fiddled with the controls to no avail. “These are supposed to work right out of the box,” he explained, ‘“guess that’s not always true.” Years ago, the Woodcrafters catalog offered a Stanley block plane with a value-added feature. For an additional $25 they would turn the plane over to a local craftsman who would flatten the sole. When Stanley found out, they were furious. In the next catalog the aftermarket service was no longer offered but text for the handplane extolled the flatness of the sole. Same price.
Paul thran
2020-08-20 04:17:49 +0000 UTCThose closing remarks are what sold me on becoming a patron. Incredibly humbling words that resonated so much with me. Keep up the amazing work!
Dan Sackett
2020-08-20 04:04:23 +0000 UTCOr do what AvE does and get yourself a Bosch mini-chainsaw for box opening! :-)
God of Ramblers
2020-08-19 21:45:33 +0000 UTCI can't watch the video for some reason.
Cody A Bachinski
2020-08-19 14:33:30 +0000 UTCAnother brilliant video. I am off to get close and personal with my Stanley #4 again in the ongoing setup refinement.
David Coxon
2020-08-19 00:43:10 +0000 UTCEnjoyed the video as always. A random jumble of thoughts I had while watching it... I don't think Lie-Nielsen has any magic for reversing grain, it's all about that chipbreaker setup. The first plane I got to work against the grain was a fairly "new" Stanley no. 2. (Though I do now prefer my bronze LN4.) Have you tried to see how open you can run a smoother and get a good finish? I found the stock LN blade too thick when paired with a super tight chipbreaker. I swapped it for a Vertias blade and didn't adjust the frog. In theory, I opened the mouth up an additional 0.025", and I got much less clogging. I think CS made the note that in the fight against tearout, we have pitch, chipbreaker, and mouth at our disposal. The more of each you use, the more likely to clog the plane, which is why I went to the extreme of standard pitch, fairly open mouth, 100% on the chipbreaker.
Matt Radtke
2020-08-18 19:53:19 +0000 UTCHaha that's one way to put it. But I'm not afraid to experiment with it like I might be with a more expensive tool. It has all the basic features of the Lie Nielson in the video, although not the quality materials or the precision machining. I would actually recommend it as a starter plane.
Kevin Lundquist
2020-08-18 13:09:54 +0000 UTCHi Paul, I think you misunderstood my intention. Obviously, the purpose is not to blame Russel. It would be a summary of the main bullet points so that if somebody has the same problem, they could find the possible solutions more easily. I think the reason why Russel sent the tool to Rex was that he wanted to have answer for the question what he was doing wrong. The answer would be useful for Russel as well and wouldn't put him to same at all.
Csongor Halmai
2020-08-18 11:50:28 +0000 UTCI interpreted the observations and changes Rex made as him very gently explaining what "Russel" missed or did wrong in a very tactful way. Any summary at the end might have been a pretty unfairly harsh rebuke for the guy who so graciously lent his very expensive tool for the video. I thought it was handled pretty well.
Paul Thoma
2020-08-18 11:43:36 +0000 UTCI've been getting a bit into speaking recently and I bet I could come up with a talk called "the struggle." Good idea!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-18 11:34:31 +0000 UTCThat's impressive. Those Kobalt planes are....budget tools.
Rex Krueger
2020-08-18 11:33:53 +0000 UTCThat's impressive. Those Kobalt planes are....budget tools.
Rex Krueger
2020-08-18 11:33:45 +0000 UTCYou're very kind.
Rex Krueger
2020-08-18 11:33:21 +0000 UTCOf course, it's much LONGER....
Rex Krueger
2020-08-18 11:33:10 +0000 UTCThe back of the iron needs to be flat all the way across, but just at the tip. Maybe the first 1/2 inch. That's all you need.
Rex Krueger
2020-08-18 11:32:57 +0000 UTCMan, I've thought about it!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-18 11:31:37 +0000 UTCThis is the way!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-18 11:31:25 +0000 UTCSean really covered it, but the 220 is a fine plane and will do a lot of detail work. You can also hold it in one hand. Just becasue I don't use one doesn't mean you shouldn't. Oh, and the 220 is my favorite low-cost vintage block plane!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-18 11:30:45 +0000 UTCWow! That was thorough!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-18 11:28:51 +0000 UTCWill do!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-18 11:27:58 +0000 UTCRex, really enjoyed this vlog style video - keep in the arsenal of ideas for a once in the while change.
Duncan Barclay
2020-08-17 18:12:25 +0000 UTCHi, Knathaniel C-Even though Rex has a video saying you really don’t have to get a block plane, in an earlier video he covers block planes a bit on which three vintage planes to get for cheap to restore. He covers the No. 5 Jack Plane, the No. 4 Smoothing Plane and the block plane. He goes into which block planes to look for and which ones to stay away from and their uses. I had gotten a new Stanley Sweetheart 9 1/2 on Amazon for about $49 and sharpened and tuned it before I had gotten some vintage bench planes ready for use. It was really the first plane I prepared, sharpened and used at all. For almost a month, it was my only plane, and I was able to do a lot with it, though it’s smaller size sometimes was a disadvantage for larger pieces. Block planes also work real nice on end grain, but of course, so will most planes, especially if you have a shooting board. So, if all you have right now is a block plane, you can use it pretty much for most planing, though you’ll need to take your time with wider pieces. You can skew the plane on an angle like Rex shows in other videos to cover more of an area and not have tracks from the blade edges. The only thing is with the 220 is that if you wanted to take rougher cuts, you wouldn’t be able to open the mouth up to do that. On the other hand, the fixed mouth is pretty small and you’ll be able to get through some tougher grain with that. That said, I was grateful when I restored and set up an old Jack Plane and Smoother. I definitely saw the advantages of using these bigger planes and how much more quickly and efficiently they got the job done.
Sean O'Neill
2020-08-17 13:43:45 +0000 UTCRight there with you. You may have noticed my "I digress" comments made THROUGHOUT my writings.
Dan Miller
2020-08-17 03:59:15 +0000 UTCHey Rex, I have a few question. You have mentioned that you don't use block planes a whole lot, but I as a novice woodworker happen to have an old 220. I fixed it up according to one of your plane restoration videos, but I don't really know how to use it! While I know it isn't your specialty, how would you use a block plane? What kind of tasks are they good for? If I'm someone who mostly works on small projects, some boxes, probably nothing bigger than a stool, how long should I go before I pick up a proper jack and smoother, or can a block plane substitute for one of those with the right set up?
Knathaniel C
2020-08-17 01:16:06 +0000 UTCRex, I commend you once again for this video. As a new woodworker, I believe, at least for me, the whole sharpening and tuning aspect, which I recognize as very important (like sharpening tool bits for a metal lathe) was kind of a drag, because I just wanted to dive in a make something! But, watching some of your earlier videos on sharpening, and on restoring old planes helped me to enjoy the work once I finally dive into it! I restored an old Stanley pattern Sears Craftsman jack plane recently and I was thrilled when I took the first few shavings with that. Same with setting up a new block plane and other vintage planes I’ve gotten and chisels. So, you are so right when you say the sharpening, the sometimes frustrating process of learning to set up and getting familiar with the tools “is the woodworking.” Keep up the great videos!
Sean O'Neill
2020-08-16 22:21:59 +0000 UTCWell, now there's your next level of patronage: for $25/month you get Rex to hand-tune your tools on camera, but only after 12 months of verified membership. :)
Derick Siddoway
2020-08-16 21:12:56 +0000 UTCSo, you don’t have to make the back of the cutting iron flat for the entire length of the chip breaker? With these machined chip breaker I’ve been worried that if I only flatten the end of the iron, the flat back of the chip breaker won’t make good contact across the tip?
William Allen
2020-08-16 21:04:33 +0000 UTC... This video will be shorter than normal... lol
Stuart
2020-08-16 20:53:26 +0000 UTCNot bad for some doofus on the internet. :)
Jim Williams
2020-08-16 14:32:21 +0000 UTCAnother home run! I love your plane videos; my $40 Kobalt plane works better than I could have ever hoped thanks to your tutelage!
Kevin Lundquist
2020-08-16 14:25:29 +0000 UTCRex I think your story at the end was excellent, sounded like a "capstone speech" you could refine and use again and again as part of your teaching. An excellent video overall, reminded me to get into the shop and work on tge tools that I have before shopping for more/better.
Paul Thoma
2020-08-16 13:29:04 +0000 UTCSorry, Before Shelton Mfg. bought the patent (early 1900's) He was the original designer of the planes.
Kevin S Thomas
2020-08-16 13:14:26 +0000 UTCI'm so glad you were able to tune it even more!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-16 12:14:16 +0000 UTCI'm really glad it helped. I do run off at the mouth a bit.
Rex Krueger
2020-08-16 12:13:55 +0000 UTCI could do that next time. Thanks!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-16 12:13:32 +0000 UTCMan I think YOU need to make some Discourse posts on those sweet shipwright tools and chests. I think we all want to see those!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-16 12:13:10 +0000 UTCWell, the bronze is mostly heavier. Secretly, I think LN offered only bronze at the beginning bc it's a LOT easier to cast. Personally, I don't like heavy planes, so I wouldn't get one!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-16 12:12:20 +0000 UTCThat's ridiculous. Everyone should just do both. I really liked Home Ec. I still like to cook and bake.
Rex Krueger
2020-08-16 12:10:29 +0000 UTCI recently bought the same plane but not in bronze, I just assumed coming from Lie-Neilsen that they knew what they were doing, it worked well but after watching this and changing the frog and the chip breaker it's now a delight. (Closer to $400 in the UK , the bronze would have been the equivalent of $460 but it was my birthday!)
Mad Hamish
2020-08-16 10:36:52 +0000 UTCI enjoyed the video, but I especially enjoyed your, "should you buy this plane" explanation. That really hit home with me!
Dan Miller
2020-08-16 06:18:08 +0000 UTCA brilliant video again, Rex. :) I planned to watch only the beginning of this super long one but you caught me and I watched it till the last second. Congratulation. :) However, a quick summary would have been useful at the end telling what Russel exactly did wrong. Still an amazing video, though. :)
Csongor Halmai
2020-08-16 05:24:00 +0000 UTCRex, very interesting and your absolutely right about learning how to woodwork whilst learning your tools. I come from a family of naval shipwrights and all of them learned their craft by making their own tools and chests which taught them the necessary skills for more complex jobs in the future. It's because of this I find your videos so informative, by learning how to make your measuring gauges, planes and workbenches etc... I know I can hone my craft to learn the necessary skills (and have the tools!) for more complex projects in the future. Maybe a future video could be how to make a tool box to store all the tools you've shown how to make.
James Milne
2020-08-16 05:03:39 +0000 UTCThanx for another great video. I totally agree with your final comments. All the expensive do-dads in the world aren't going to make you a good woodworker without the proper knowledge to use them correctly. How does the bronze compare to an iron body, besides the weight factor? Does it slide across the wood any easier? Is it more/less wear-resistant? Able to handle abuse better? Is there a reason to pay a premium price for an already premium design? Or is it just another way to get suckers (er... I mean customers) to shell out extra money for something extra purty.
Michael Bennett
2020-08-16 04:02:35 +0000 UTCWhen I was in junior high the boys had to take shop and the girls home economics. I so wanted to be in that shop making and doing stuff with tools. Instead I had to learn sew and cook. Unbelievably sexist. 😕
Laura Reutter
2020-08-16 01:47:44 +0000 UTCWow, that's an AMAZING story. I've never heard of someone selling their premium tools and then getting simpler tools. What a journey you've had!!!!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-16 00:31:17 +0000 UTCI'm really glad I could help. There's so much to know on this topic!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-16 00:29:36 +0000 UTCI couldn't agree more. When i was a bigger power-tool user, hand tools were always the finishing touch!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-16 00:29:02 +0000 UTCThey took them out of Connecticut, too. There was so much I could have learned!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-16 00:28:15 +0000 UTCGood luck! The practice will make you better!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-15 23:38:25 +0000 UTC"trial and error" indeed!!!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-15 23:38:02 +0000 UTCIt's appreciated!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-15 23:37:25 +0000 UTCI totally see what you mean. It's really a delicate ballance between learning and frustration.
Rex Krueger
2020-08-15 23:37:13 +0000 UTCThat's high praise! Thank you!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-15 23:36:31 +0000 UTCA fair point.
Rex Krueger
2020-08-15 23:36:16 +0000 UTCYou stick with me and I'll keep the videos coming!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-15 23:35:57 +0000 UTCI'm glad to hear that!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-15 23:35:30 +0000 UTCWhat are C. J. MacCaller's ?!?
Rex Krueger
2020-08-15 23:35:22 +0000 UTC"All the gear and no idea". That's a quote!
Rex Krueger
2020-08-15 23:34:54 +0000 UTCI had an interesting internal debate as I watched this video. I started woodworking about 13 years ago after my daughter was born. I was making good money and "invested" in several of Lie-Nielsen tools. They were wonderful and I built several very nice pieces using them. About six or so years after, I stopped woodworking, and felt very guilty about all those expensive tools cluttering a dusty and unused shop in my garage. So, I eBayed all of them. I started watching your videos after the lock-down hit and slowly picked up working again, but this time I just bought tools you recommended, the new Stanley no. 4 and the Low Angle Jack plane. They are really good tools, not Lie-Nielsen good ... but not too far off. I had to tune them up and I still struggle with the adjuster on the no 4, but I learned a lot more about planing by struggling. I dunno, I also bought a router plane from L-N just a few weeks ago after buying a vintage piece of junk of eBay. I was wasting so much time working to get it going, I just gave up. My shop time is precious, I don't have hours upon hours to fix up some 100 yo tool. I bought the L-N router plane, took it out of the box, and it worked. First time. No tuning. If I put a dollar figure on my time... say $20 bucks an hour, the Vintage Stanley was incredibly expensive. Doing some back of the napkin math, It cost over $400 all told and still didn't work. The L-N cost $175 total and I got going immediately. But... on the other hand you are so right, a L-N Bronze #4 would be wasted on my skills as they are now. Anyway, I'm glad to be back woodworking and glad that you're making videos like this. It's not an easy thing topic to tackle, but I feel you did a very good job.
Eric Paisley
2020-08-15 21:07:07 +0000 UTCThanks Rex! I followed along and tuned up my Stanley #3 as you demonstrated. I experimented with adjusting the frog depth, which I had never done. Very helpful.
Laura Reutter
2020-08-15 19:38:38 +0000 UTCThe struggle is real! I had a similar experience in my plane journey. I had a couple of not very good planes that I could never get to work properly. My father in law gave me a #3, and I had a buddy that wanted to restore it. After I got it back from him, I then knew what a well setup plane is like, and that propelled me down my path to understanding, learning, and ultimately loving every aspect of hand planes. As a power tool user, I now don't know how I lived without them. I have no intentions of stopping using my power tools, and hand tools have just upped my game and improved my work. There is no better way to fine tune your work than with hand tools.
Brett Masek
2020-08-15 17:04:45 +0000 UTCYour are correct too know your tools, how they work and know how to set up the tool the first thing you most learn. I was lucky back in the day my high school had a wood working shop class where i learned a great deal. the first thing we learned was how to use the tools and caring for them before we touched a piece of wood. Too bad they took shop classes out of schools in New York
John Kiernan
2020-08-15 16:53:57 +0000 UTCExcellent video, Rex. I learned lot and I am inspired to head out to the shop right now and mess with my planes.
Boyce Rensberger
2020-08-15 16:07:16 +0000 UTCMy experience with the Woodriver (house brand plane for Woodcraft) planes has been very similar. Yes, you have to experiment and learn to tune these properly. One thing I'd like to point out is moving the frog forward to close the gap between the blade & front of the mouth. This is important for fine shavings because it supports the fibers of the wood in front of the edge of the blade, greatly reducing tear out. I agree with Rex, you need to fiddle with the tool and learn how to make it work really well. There is a lot of trial and error & you will learn as much what not to do as what to do.
Tom Manseau
2020-08-15 16:06:36 +0000 UTCGreat video :) I commented on it instead of here. (Well, I guess I just commented here. Whelp! There, I did it again!)
Thomas Hverring
2020-08-15 15:02:15 +0000 UTCI own a Lie-Neilsen #4, standard pitch. I had to adjust the frog forward by quite a lot, as well. It too me a frustrating couple of weeks to figure out. I will say that having a plane that was set up and working helped me figure out and fix my other planes that I had bought from the flea market. There is no escaping needing to know how your tools work... At the same time, using something that is really well made and nice can encourage you to use it more. A plane that works, but it's a complete PITA to use... That could discourage you from working on a project. I always have something to do... If I don't enjoy myself in my free time using a tool, I'll probably end up finding something else to do.
Geoffrey Wilson
2020-08-15 14:58:04 +0000 UTCI learned alot from this. Rex, you are a Master when it comes to sharing what you learned from doing... I can appreciate all the doofuses on the internet but you my friend are an excellent teacher.
Daniel Mueller
2020-08-15 14:52:21 +0000 UTCExcellent video and I learned a lot (again). But please start cutting boxes open on the short sides first where your blade will be safely sandwiched between cardboard and then pull up on the long flaps to cut down the middle. That way you won't accidentally damage the contents.
Trinidad Regaspi
2020-08-15 14:04:01 +0000 UTCMoney can buy the best tools on earth, but you still need the skill to use them. And that only comes with time. Money *can* shorten that time if you use it to pay for lessons, but there's no escaping the fact that you need to put in the time to build the skills. Like you said, "All the gear and no idea."
TwoRavens
2020-08-15 13:25:54 +0000 UTCThis. This video, and the thought behind it, is why I started supporting your work, Rex. Because the world needs "doofus[es] on the Internet" to help us figure out what we're doing wrong, and how to get better at it. And I'm very glad to help make that happen. Hell, you've helped me solve at least a couple problems in my shop! Keep on keepin' on.
TwoRavens
2020-08-15 13:22:18 +0000 UTCThanks Rex for the video. I know I feel like I've learned quite a bit today.
Andrew Parsons
2020-08-15 13:02:17 +0000 UTCGreat video! Thanks for recognizing (and verbalizing) the process all craftsman have to go through, no matter what the skill set. I'm still trying to figure out some old C.J. MacCaller's I picked up recently. This inspires me to head out to the shop, and work on them.
Kevin S Thomas
2020-08-15 13:01:20 +0000 UTCHave to say I found this interesting, but especially the words of wisdom at the end. I've come into an interest in woodworking from doing some Wood Carving, and had I not had a Club to attend with people who in some cases have been doing this for 50 years or more I wouldn't have known where to start - as it is, four years in I'm still learning more about grain and how to work with it, what you can or can't get away with, and what tools work for me. Even so, I've a long way to go before I reach the limits of the small selection of tools I have. The same with this - I can go out and get the fancy Dovetail Gauge that Matt Estlea uses in some of his videos, but that doesn't make me Matt Estlea - and unless and until I'm trying to operate at such a high level I'm better sticking to tools that are adequate and will help me learn the craft. I do a little bit of (slow!) running - some people are "All the gear and no idea" - they go out and get hydration vests, GPS Watch, the latest Nike Vaporflys - but unless you're operating at a high level and/or training for half-marathons and above, a decent pair of well-fitting running shoes are all you really need. Get the other stuff when you know what you are doing, and why you need it...
Rob Weir
2020-08-15 12:05:17 +0000 UTC
