Early Access Video: Affordable Tenon Saw Shootout!
Added 2020-05-02 11:00:02 +0000 UTCFriends:
If you read my most recent post on the "Mother Tools," then you know I'm looking to expand the Woodwork for Humans toolkit by finding 4 or 5 affordable tools that can be used to make furniture AND make other tools.
Today, I'm looking at backsaws and man, did I find some good ones! I've always been into vintage saws, so I had no idea how good and how affordable some of these modern saws have gotten. You can go on Amazon right now and find a saw that will work great right out of the package.
Which one should you choose? Good question!
--Rex
Comments
With a little searching the interwebs, you can find the veritas saw for ~$75. I got both the rip and crosscut for~$150 since it was a good deal and they're working pretty good so far. They're still in their break-in period, but they cut pretty smooth. That being said I apreciate the video and the advice/techniques/and DIY mentality more than anything, even though I didn't take your advice! :)
Vasileios
2020-06-20 13:36:50 +0000 UTCNot at all! Joined today as a patron because you are funny, real, and after watching 20 or so videos for free I realized this is exactly the content I want to support. I have never done patreon before but its about time I started supporting excellent content. Keep talking - these videos are amazing!
Andrew Seaton
2020-06-16 15:32:23 +0000 UTCYou're right. I need to talk less.
Rex Krueger
2020-05-14 19:00:49 +0000 UTCDon't say that Veritas could charge more! They might just do it!
Martin Hartley
2020-05-14 13:02:54 +0000 UTCThat's funny; on US Amazon, the Lynx costs the MOST. The Crown is cheapest.
Rex Krueger
2020-05-14 13:01:29 +0000 UTCI think the Veritas saws are pretty amazing for what they cost. They could charge a lot more.
Rex Krueger
2020-05-14 13:00:19 +0000 UTCI bought a couple Veritas saws (rip and crosscut). I really like them. Not cheap, but it didn't break the bank. I'd like to actually make a saw someday. That will be fun. And you provided a template for a handle up above. Cool beans! I also will continue to keep my open at yard sales. :)
Jonathan Lillpopp
2020-05-13 16:37:40 +0000 UTCRegarding the Crown Tenon saw: I am pretty sure that they are made by a company in the UK which sells them under several brand names. Lynx is the brand I've seen cheapest. I think that Crown, Pax and Lynx are all the same saws with different branding made by Thomas Flinn & Co. or Flinn-Garlick. I have their 8" dovetail saw with gent's handle, which cost only $30 AUD ($18 US) and I love it.
Martin Hartley
2020-05-13 15:50:48 +0000 UTCI should clarify that this was an un-restored No. 4 Type 15 from 1931-2, but the issues were mostly just rust and flattening.
Chris Mewett
2020-05-05 19:12:37 +0000 UTCWhat I find fascinating about this: today you can get a #4 new for either 20 bucks or for 160 bucks, but there is no middle ground in the price range, unless you go for restored old planes. I guess it shows that hand tool woodworkers are either very rich or very poor, or that there are still enough restored planes on the market to satisfy the demand in the middle priced range… (except for the high-demand collectables of course).
Daniel Bohrer
2020-05-05 17:31:30 +0000 UTCI got a Stanley No. 4 on ebay a couple of weeks ago for $71; it had good photos and was a fairly competitive auction. I spent about four hours restoring it (without a grinder). Was disappointed to find that the iron had been sharpened somewhat unevenly so it can have a tendency to leave sort of scalloped cuts like a jack plane when set deep; that's something that I'll just need to spend more time leveling out, I guess. Otherwise it works like a dream, and can't even be compared to the cheapo Buck Brothers starter plane I bought at Home Depot some time ago.
Chris Mewett
2020-05-05 16:06:16 +0000 UTCTo be correct, it's my first to-be-restored plane, I've already got a cheap Indian #4 and #6 by Faithfull Tools (okay, maybe these also counted as "needs restoration" when I think of it…). This one now is a Record 4½, and it's in fair condition and only the tote needs restoration. But I got it bundled with a Record 078 in mostly new condition (which I originally wanted… :D) for about 120 GBP, so cannot tell how much it was by itself. Still, I think old tools deserve to be used when they can, so this is a first for me :-)
Daniel Bohrer
2020-05-05 15:41:35 +0000 UTCWoot! That first plane is always a thrill. I assume you bought a Stanley 4? How much does one of those set you back these days?
Rex Krueger
2020-05-05 12:53:59 +0000 UTCI would assume that all of these saws are made of something in the neighborhood of 1095, hardened to a reasonable degree. I say this because the brass backs are going to be pretty pricey, so there's no good reason to skimp on the plate. You will not need a diamond file for the Veritas. A regular old saw file will suffice.
Rex Krueger
2020-05-05 12:52:50 +0000 UTCYou won't be disappointed. It's a fine tool.
Rex Krueger
2020-05-05 12:47:14 +0000 UTCListen to you with your show-biz talk!
Rex Krueger
2020-05-05 12:46:23 +0000 UTCPistol grip handle might not have enough support and/or strength if you cut that material away. Depends on how the grain of the handle is oriented. But if it's set right, that could be cool. If it's not, you could always just cut a new one...
TwoRavens
2020-05-05 02:12:30 +0000 UTCGreat cliffhanger on yr cold open, dude!
Alex Larson
2020-05-05 00:04:35 +0000 UTCAppreciate this video, now to go throw money at that Veritas :)
Mason Zack
2020-05-04 13:55:47 +0000 UTCInteresting stuff. The only thing missing for me is a comparison of the steel used. Is one going to stay sharper longer, or take a finer edge? Will you forever be sharpening the cheaper saw or swearing at the Veritas if you don’t have a diamond file?
A1BASE
2020-05-04 13:46:38 +0000 UTCHow 'bout turning the handle into a pistol grip, like the Veritas has...
Frans van Ballegooijen
2020-05-04 12:50:07 +0000 UTCMy 10" inch S&J also has a detachable handle, in contrast to the one you had in the video. But mine is also two years old, maybe they changed it in the meantime.
Daniel Bohrer
2020-05-04 10:30:50 +0000 UTCThat's what I love about the WW4H series: getting to know the tools from the inside, understanding how they work, and making them work better than before, instead of throwing money at the problem. I admit that I've done the latter more than once before, but I'm very interested in learning about the first way too. Now if you'll excuse me… my first to-be-restored vintage hand plane just arrived from eBay ^^
Daniel Bohrer
2020-05-04 10:25:40 +0000 UTCCheers, I was right I was being dense :)
Mad Hamish
2020-05-03 13:47:35 +0000 UTCThat's a great point. Maybe I can mess with the S&J when I fix it up.
Rex Krueger
2020-05-03 13:43:42 +0000 UTCI'm glad you like it. I was SHOCKED that they offered this saw at this price. Nice to know it works on insane Aussie woods.
Rex Krueger
2020-05-03 13:42:40 +0000 UTCMichael: You raise a good point. The Veritas has a "break-in" period where it's a bit rough. It should settle down for you after a bit more use. If not, reach out to Veritas. They're very customer-focused and they'll make you happy.
Rex Krueger
2020-05-03 13:41:43 +0000 UTCEverything on the newsletter gets posted here before the letter goes out because Patrons come FIRST. There's nothing in there you haven't seen.
Rex Krueger
2020-05-03 13:39:29 +0000 UTCYeah, that's irritating, but the 10" version is in stock and it's the same otherwise, I don't think you'll really miss those 2 inches. (Insert childish joke here.)
Rex Krueger
2020-05-03 13:38:31 +0000 UTCI can't give them away! I need to use them for future WW4H projects!
Rex Krueger
2020-05-03 13:37:18 +0000 UTCThe Ryoba is a fine tool, but I'm just not that good with it. I've really tried on these Japanese tools, but I'm just a Western woodworker and I'm going to lean more in that direction for a while. You'll still see some Japanese tools, because they do offer outstanding value.
Rex Krueger
2020-05-03 13:36:48 +0000 UTCI'll do it!
Rex Krueger
2020-05-03 13:35:15 +0000 UTCAnd I will make more! Promise!
Rex Krueger
2020-05-03 13:35:03 +0000 UTCMany thanks.
Mad Hamish
2020-05-03 07:16:13 +0000 UTC-- Silly experiment to try-- I have a few back saws some were dirt cheap for cutting plastic others were my dads from the 1970's name was a Sandvik from Sweden-the experiment- One saw I need to hold with only 2 fingers in the handle so that my hand is further down because the saw just digs in like a plough if I don't. Would you have a go changing your grip lower and see how it effects the start of the cut. I bet it is the angle of the handle and the depth of the saw plate that is wrong giving too much down pressure.Most modern saws are now designed by people that never use them, they just make them look good. I learned how to saw in a Blacksmiths shop ;-) you can't just use a chisel to clean up the faces ;-) where an angle grinder will not fit.
John Harrison
2020-05-03 05:34:32 +0000 UTCI have the same Veritas saw - MUCH more expensive in Australia ! It is over $US100 at the moment (yes, I know our exchange rate sucks !) But with import duties and GST (our value added tax), it is $A 159.00 - BUT it is very much worth it ! I have a cheap Dozuki as well, which is great for pine or trim etc., but not great at dovetails in Australian hardwoods (which are amongst the hardest in the world). The Veritas has no problems (although it does require sharpening from time to time (but less often than some of my other saws).
Andrew Fish
2020-05-03 00:02:13 +0000 UTCThe link is on Rex's website at https://www.rexkrueger.com/articles - there is a sign up button on that page.
Andrew Fish
2020-05-02 23:56:45 +0000 UTCYou should pop over to the discourse page and show us pictures of the finish your veritas is leaving. Rex hangs out there too, and pictures would give him and the community a better idea of what you are running into. Stoning the teeth is safer than hammering out set because the tiny teeth can work harden and become brittle. Either method, if you overcook it you may wind up filing a whole new set of teeth. Honestly, if you want a glass smooth finish straight from the saw, you may have unrealistic expectations. I have also found that there is a short break in period on new saws or freshly sharpened teeth that can leave cuts a little ragged until all of the super sharp parts kind of wear in. Good luck! Hope to see you on the discourse page with this!
Nic Beurskens
2020-05-02 21:11:23 +0000 UTCIra, The Veritas is 14 TPI with 0.003 set per side. https://www.woodcraft.com/products/veritas-crosscut-carcass-saw-14-tpi?via=573621f469702d06760016cd%2C57641cd569702d65930009cc%2C57c7342869702d597e001b91
Michael Ross
2020-05-02 20:59:19 +0000 UTCHi Rex, I just took possession of the Veritas Dovetail saw. After looking at the S& amp;J and Crown. How about that. The dovetail saw has he same plate as the carcass saw you have. same TPI 14, and same set 0.003 in each side. $70 not $80. Still a good deal. I am somewhat unhappy with it. The handle is everything you said. I love it. But, it has too much set. It leaves fuzz and it doesn't track in the kerf well. I have a couple funky gent saws I have been trying to learn to use to no avail. One of them has an 0.020in plate 14 TPI like the Veritas, but it has zero set and it bogs down bad after about 1/2 inch of depth. It leaves a surface like glass, but you have to push so hard you lose control. I am going to de-set the Veritas. I have seen Paul Sellers take a stone to the side of a crosscut and I think I will try that. Advice? warnings?
Michael Ross
2020-05-02 20:34:26 +0000 UTCI think I'm being dense, I can't find the link to your newsletter.
Mad Hamish
2020-05-02 16:36:42 +0000 UTCAs of 5/2/20 the Spear & Jackson saw that you linked to is no longer available... did you buy them all? LOL!
Michael Gross
2020-05-02 13:43:22 +0000 UTC"I don't even need these saws!" The cure: giveaways. You're welcome. ;)
Paul Bucalo
2020-05-02 13:04:34 +0000 UTCThanks for the video. I have been looking almost exclusively at the Japanese style saws because they are much less expensive than the western equivalents. But after the video I am considering that Veritas. I have 2 questions though: What TPI did you get with the Veritas? And I thought the Ryoba had cross cut teeth, why didn’t you try that one?
Ira Romfh
2020-05-02 12:34:10 +0000 UTCI have the same Spear and Jackson saw... I refiled the teeth to rip cut and they cut well but leaves a rough surface. The real problem is that the handle is incredibly uncomfortable. Painful actually. I sanded down the sharp edges and took down some of the area where it hits my palm, but it still needs a total reshaping. Looking forward to seeing some tips on how to do that!
Mike M
2020-05-02 11:53:25 +0000 UTCPerfect timing! I've fairly new to woodworking and trying to expand into joinery and furniture building. So I've been looking into a good saw. All you're videos are very helpful and inspiring. I'm looking forward to more!
Brandon L Hays
2020-05-02 11:23:01 +0000 UTC
