Attack on Titan - 4x30 - Full Length Reaction (Part 3)
Added 2024-12-07 15:23:31 +0000 UTCFULL LENGTH VERSION of the Attack on Titan Season 4 Episode 30 (The Final Chapters Special 2)!
Had to split this up into parts again due to technical difficulties but Part 4 should be out shortly!
Comments
My friend, that is exactly what I was trying to say! Check out our after discussion, Q&A, or any of my comments on patreon where I explained my thoughts. - Lia
Lia Fiore
2024-12-17 13:08:30 +0000 UTCLia was completely missing the point, I don't blame her, but Molly is almost there, but misses just by a hair. She thinks that it's all just predetermined and Eren had no choice in any of it. Which is mostly correct, but also, he wanted to achieve the goals that following this "predetermined" path results in- to save Mikasa, Armin, the Paradisians and end Eldian racism from the world. All which he achieved by following the path of the Rumbling. IF HE DID NOT want to achieve these goals, the path would've been determined differently- probably no Rumbling, but also, may be all Paradisians will be wiped out in 50 years, Mikasa and Armin might be killed in this massacre, etc. It is determined, and he saw the future memories as determined, BECAUSE Eren wanted to achieve his desired end goals. Not independent of it. His desires bring about the determination of the path.
AkhilTrc
2024-12-17 13:04:18 +0000 UTCI usually just find the idea that Eren with the power of the founding Titan can technically influence anything within the path. All paths lead to him, he always had control from the very beginning, but since he is already part of a predestined plan, he can't veer from it no matter what. That is the problem with a looping cycle. While he could theoretically have the ability to do anything he so wishes with the Eldians throughout ALL OF TIME, he can't. He is literally a slave to the will of the future. He has the past and the future that happen at the same time.
jastop94
2024-12-14 21:25:04 +0000 UTCA lot of fans consider the whole Eren killing his mom thing a plot hole since he should only be able to effect past memories. IMO there are plausible explanations tho. In the episode where we see Dina turned into a Titan, the last thing she says to Grisha is "no matter what form I take I will come and find you". We already know Eren can alter the memories of any Eldian once he had the founding titan and zeke, this is how he was able wipe the memories of his conversations with Armin, Mikasa ect. We also know that like Connie's Mom, sometimes an abnormal Titan's human consciousness can come to surface. So the way I see it, Dina could have been an abnormal as well and could be effected by memories or seeing someone she was once close to. All Eren needed to do was send a memory of Grisha in Eren's home to Dina for her to change course and head there instead of eating Bertholt . It's not that he physically forced Dina, but was aware sending back those memories would effect her even in Titan form.
Jonathan R
2024-12-12 04:40:54 +0000 UTC5:13 cause she killed Eren?
Joaquin garcia
2024-12-10 00:45:36 +0000 UTCRemember that Eren wasn't physically there to control his father to kill the Reiss family, so maybe think of him controlling the titan that ate his mom in that way. But I guess he needed Zeke for that...
John
2024-12-09 23:19:11 +0000 UTCLia, I believe you are absolutely correct here
chrislu71 .
2024-12-09 17:13:39 +0000 UTCThe way I like to explain the whole “Eren sending the titan towards his mom” moment is compare it to Harry Potter in the Prisoner of Azkaban In that movie, Harry watches someone blow away all the dementors when Sirius is moments from death, and he swears that it was his dad But when he gets back to that moment with the Time Turner with Hermione, he’s waiting for his dad to show up, but he never comes, that’s when he realizes that he is the one who cast the patroness spell Now apply that to AOT and Eren. Eren does not know he’s the one who sent the titan to his mom UNTIL he unlocked the full power of the Founder (when he won the power over Zeke with Ymir). I’m sure it was a sad moment for him realizing he’s the reason his mom’s dead, and that he could not stop or help himself to get to the moment that he so desperately wanted to. I know that’s a long explanation but that’s how I like to think of it
Buggy99
2024-12-09 15:15:05 +0000 UTCThis is why attack on titan is so good. Eren is both shaped by his future self but he is his future self so that is who he is. Bootstrap paradox going hard lol. Like he said with his chat with Armin.. the outcome couldnt change because of who he is but he did try to find the right solution
Paul O'Kane
2024-12-08 16:18:08 +0000 UTCI don't like it, too - the way I see it, Eren, being an idiot, sent Dina in the direction of his mother, that "toward" of his being indistinct enough a term to keep him not intentionally culpable for his mother's death.
Anguis Viridis
2024-12-08 12:34:34 +0000 UTCEren was everywhere at all times all at once because he was wielding the founding titans power, the exact way he was able to influence his dad only through the founder
Anthony Orozco
2024-12-08 04:48:04 +0000 UTCAlso have to remember Eren carrying out his most despicable desires desires he wouldve otherwise resisted) wholeheartedly and having mikasa, who loved him as much as ymir loved fritz, deal the final blow was what gave ymir the courage to disobey him and unexist all titans. Eren couldnt do it without her will ig. So i think when armin said felt the same about wiping out everything and starting anew sometimes that was to illucidate that everyone including goodie 2 shoes armin has felt it but Eren did actually have to so Mikasa would hurt the one she loved. Honestly they both killed their true love at the same time to save the same humanity. I would think she (ymir) wouldve lost some ability when the worm shot out of eren when armin blew him up but maybe with the paths ymir is still the founder and the worm just happened to step outside and do its own thing which it could possibly always do without undoing all titandom. Typos maybe who cares 🫶
DontCare JustDont
2024-12-08 03:58:28 +0000 UTClast 2 ackermanns killing last 2 jaegers
Renteezy
2024-12-08 00:40:36 +0000 UTCTo me, what Eren says is guilt. It shows how good of a person he is. Think of what Armin says and even what Historia says. They all try to shoulder the burden of guilt. Eren even wanted to give away his own life and dreams back in season three when he told Historia to eat him. He is shown on several occasions trying to find another way, being tormented about what's coming, and doing it all anyway. That's the whole reason he was in Marley. He was seeking peace at the time until he was shown for the final time that Marley won't accept peace (the scene where he finally leaves). He feels guilty that the future that he saw still came to be, and he feels that he wasn't enough to change it. But he couldn't have either way. He felt guilty for having the impulsive thought of wiping it all away. Armin even says he has felt the same before. But as you both said in the reaction, that's a natural thought to have from time to time. If we say that Eren had a choice, but that his future is predetermined, then we lose all sense of causality. It's like looking at a picture book of someone throwing a ball and breaking a window. Nothing is "forced" it just IS. The person on the last page is just a result of the previous page. But that doens't mean they don't matter. As far as whether they should shoulder blame is a topic of debate, but the whole point was to show how we can find meaning despite our stars.
Anthony Granado
2024-12-07 21:50:52 +0000 UTCHi Lia, I think the one thing you are missing is that the determinism only began once Eren kissed Historia's hand. In that moment he essentially sees the end of the show and every action he takes inevitably leads to that end even if he is trying to go against it. To your point, that unchangeable future was shaped because of Eren's violent personality, but it wasn't a conscious decision on his part. It begs the question of what could have happened if someone like Armin had the founding titan power instead. Would their future have been different from the moment that person kissed Historia's hand?
Globalist
2024-12-07 21:34:13 +0000 UTCThe reason Eren has god powers over all titans at all points in time is because he touched Zeke right before he started the rumbing (and because he has the founding titan). The way him and Zeke were able to move across time and memories is what Eren did, but we aren't shown those moments. So from that episode to Zeke's death, Eren can do whatever he wants at any point in time.
Globalist
2024-12-07 21:22:10 +0000 UTCIt was both his choice and pre determined, which is possible exactly because Eren wanted to do the rumbling anyway. He had multiple reasons to do it but none to not do it, he was this whole time searching for just one reason not to do it other than it being the morally wrong choice. And that is exactly why he also feels stupid, he feels stupid because he never found another solution to this conflict. He believes someone like Armin could have found another solution if he had the founding titan. Also consider it's Erens nature to fight no matter what, this has been established since the start of the show. And do also remember the alternative was him and his Island being genocided, he had to make a choice and he had to do it quick. One thing that is consistent in the show is that Eren never attacks unprovoked, he always retaliates the attacks of others.
chris
2024-12-07 20:51:30 +0000 UTCEren admits he's an idiot and that's why only an idiot can arrive to this conclusion(genocide, fighting fire with fire) smart people would find a way, so the way i see it, a dumb ignorant man only has so much potential. free will? determinism? somewhere in between mayhaps? lmao but yes molly is right but doesnt mean we agree with it or morally sound, only an "idiot" would believe otherwise (Yeagerist)
Reggie Azem
2024-12-07 20:37:07 +0000 UTCits like as he said he tried so many times to change the future, but he could not change it, his lost shot was when he asked mikasa that question about what is he to him, looking for a way out, but even so mikasa reply was exactly what he saw in the memories, and yes eren can control the titans, any eldian tbh think of it in the say way as he influenced grisha to kill frieda to take the founding, like at that point of the show eren wasnt even the attack titan but still influenced grisha.. to make things easier just think of the paths where time doesnt exist and there's no past present and future for eren in his memories just a collage of everything
Harry
2024-12-07 20:18:02 +0000 UTCtatakae!
Toodwart
2024-12-07 20:03:31 +0000 UTC@lia you should check out Invaderzz video on Eren, it came out before the anime adaptation of the ending and gets a lot of things right. You are right in the fact that it was pre-determined because of his own choices and desires. Eren chose to do the rumbling, he wanted to do it because it fulfilled his idea of freedom, where he was no longer oppressed by the outside world, a childish desire, which is why he is shown as a child during the rumbling. Eren was being self-deprecating by calling himself an idiot, he can't fully explain himself, but Armin understands him which is why he tries to empathize with him by saying he wishes to wipe the world out as well.
Man Lit
2024-12-07 19:48:59 +0000 UTCBut didn’t Eren say himself he was dumb lol. To me it felt like that when Eren saw the future outcome, it robbed him of feeling like he had a choice. And, It’s not that everything is written in stone and Eren is being forced to do it, it’s determined because it was Eren’s choice and he would always make that choice because that is who he is. That is why I was upset because I didn’t like the choice Eren made and when Molly was excusing his actions of genocide, because he “had no choice” I disagreed with her. He chose this path because of his own wants and beliefs not because he had no free will. Although, I do agree that the future was predetermined due to the fact Eren would always end up choosing that path because of his thought processes and beliefs. That is my take on it!
Lia Fiore
2024-12-07 19:37:17 +0000 UTCThe attack Titan can see the future and influence past inheritors, the founding titan can manipulate all eldians/titans via the paths where past, present and future exists at the same time. Combine those two powers and that's how Eren made the titan go after his mom instead of Bertholdt
Enchiladas
2024-12-07 19:15:40 +0000 UTCLia is really missing the point here. But it's not uncommon. The debate over determinism is a thing. But if it is real, free will is an illusion. It's hard to come to terms with, but that's reality. The conversations through this episode and previous episodes is an exploration of the very possible reality of ours. It's not a cop out or "dumb" writing, it's just uncomfortable to come to terms with for some people. People like to hold onto this idea that they are in complete control of their life, and they readily reject anything that calls that into question. At the very least semi-determinism is obviously very real yet rejected so readily and blindly by so many people. Unless we reject causality (cause and effect), it's hard to escape the possibility that our choices are not truly ours, they were determined at the most fundamental levels in the space-time bulk long before humans even existed to begin with.
Anthony Granado
2024-12-07 18:49:21 +0000 UTCEren kisses Historias (Royal) hand and sees the future. As the show goes on he realized how hopeless it is because it's going as he saw it in the memories. Remember, it's possible to control titans while being in the paths because ymir controlled the titan to save Zeke when he was dying. Thus Eren is able to via Ymir to control any titan or talk to any person, or manipulate any situation he needs to manipulate to get to the future result that is already going to happen. lmaoooo By the time he kisses Historias hand the beast titan is informing marley of what has happened and no matter what they were going to infulatrate Eldia and kill everyone. It was too late :/ and of course no one wants to sit down and talk unlesss you getting stomped the F to by a colossal titan :)
Claudio Flores
2024-12-07 18:27:39 +0000 UTCEren was the FINAL TITAN. Remember The Attack Titan can see the memories of future inheritors. Eren knew there was no inheritor of the Attack Titan after him.
Rashad T
2024-12-07 18:14:54 +0000 UTCHe didn't choose anything. It's just what happened. It's determinism. He says himself that he had no choice. It's just what happened. He says multiple times that he tries to change what happens, but there is no past or future, it's just what is. If you look more into the ideas of time travel and what it might look like in real life if it were possible, you might understand this point a little better. Additionally, determinism is a central theme of this story. How do we find meaning in a causal (as in cause/effect rigidity) universe. This is highlited by Armin and Zeke's conversation in the paths, Erens recollection if his time in Marley, Erens conversation with Armin, and interviews with Isyama. Free will is an illusion, but you can still find happiness and meaning in connections, relationships, and the experience of living life.
Anthony Granado
2024-12-07 18:08:14 +0000 UTCAnother thing that I think is interesting is Eren's agency. I dont think he's ultimately powerless in choice despite being a slave to freedom as he puts it. Like Molly said, everyone's felt it. In some form or another, the frustrations you have on the world makes you want to wipe it away sometimes. After years of struggle and tragedy, the future and dream which was practically Eren's sole wish, was unachievable. But circumstances gave him the power to be a god. Coupled with the hatred of pain from the ongoing conflict, the closest he could get was the stomped bloodied footprints of the very people who's faults it was, so that's what he did. Like every dictator and monarch that unwisely uses their power for selfish desires. Only the victims of those actions are also the perpetrators of it. Also I think it's easily forgotten, but they do mention every now and then that Marley actually treated Eldians WELL in comparison to other nations. So a vast majority of people outside of Marley are MORE hateful and genocidal against Eldians. But who's more in the wrong is not the point of the show. (Like when Gabi says Sasha killed her friends and Nicolo was like "who cares") Its a compounding cycle of hate, anger, retaliation and willful ignorance of other people's struggles. It reaches it's fever pitch 2000 years after it started. But everyone is too far removed from the inital conflict that its just perpetuated hate for no good reason. But thats what history is. Can you tell the victims of a historic tragedy to just let go? Much like in real life it's hard. But we need to be more like Armin, to pursue even one day, where we can understand and care for each other.
Jay_Jade
2024-12-07 17:40:34 +0000 UTCI think dina being royal (ymirs) blood might have been significant in WHY eren was able to manipulate her into ignoring berthold - I dont believe he can control any titans throughout time and space
Rudy
2024-12-07 17:36:57 +0000 UTCNo, there is only one choice he would have made and he made it for his selfish desires. He didn't see other futures and chose the best one, there is only 1 future that could have happened. It is predetermined. Eren did the rumbling ultimately for himself not for the sake of his friends, he even states this in the episode. The rumbling was not the only way, they had other options but Eren rejected them and went rogue.
Man Lit
2024-12-07 17:35:00 +0000 UTCI didn't like it much either, it felt like it was added just for some shock factor but I do see the point of it. It basically shows it was all erens doing. Everything happened by his will
Portgas D Ace
2024-12-07 17:16:11 +0000 UTCI love how locked in Molly is lmao. I've wrapped my head around Eren and his decisions for a long ass time, and she reached the conclusions I did on a first watch. I understand Lia's frustrations though. The way I understand Eren is this: He has unlimited power to alter and manipulate every Eldian and Titan because of his team up with Founder Ymir, but not the freedom to change the past or any history he's lived thus far. Once they make the connection, he's too far gone, becoming a mortal with the mind of an omniscient being, similarly to Frieda, being forced to listen to the vow renouncing war, only "the vow" for the Attack Titan is Eren himself, which even Eren cant defy. He set them down this path, because thats what was chosen for him by himself in the future. Once he realizes he has hold of the steering wheel, all the decisions were already made. For instance, he has the choice to save Bertholdt, but not necessarily the freedom to save his mom. He has to save Betholdt because thats what happened, but as a consequence, his mom dies. He has no choice about that part. Eren is a metaphor for the cycle of hate and violence. When children are sent down a path of war the consequence is the perpetrate the same violence inflicted on them. Eren is the cause and the consequence of the world's unwillingness to sit down and talk.
Jay_Jade
2024-12-07 17:13:54 +0000 UTCAnd that's okay! I personally think it's brilliant writing and despite the bittersweet ending, loved the complex morality issues of this series. Thank you for the ride. Loved your reactions~
Hingu
2024-12-07 17:13:12 +0000 UTCThat’s the whole point even with all that power he isn’t free at all. He’s essentially a slave to the idea of freedom and his pursuit of it. That’s the tragedy of Erens character.
NissanZaxima
2024-12-07 17:11:57 +0000 UTCYes! And I understand that, I just don’t like that writing choice. Overall, I love the finale but finding out Eren had to kill his own mother felt icky to me. But maybe I’m the only one that didn’t like that plot point.
Lia Fiore
2024-12-07 17:05:21 +0000 UTCExactly. He either kill his mom in that moment or let his mom, friends and the entire Island be murdered a few years later, without any explanation of Marley
Stefano Rafael
2024-12-07 16:55:44 +0000 UTCMan…Lia just totally missing the point of why things happened. Sad…
Josh Stewart
2024-12-07 16:52:33 +0000 UTC'Future Eren' needed to kill his mom so 'Young Eren' would begin his path of vengeance of titan eradication that would spiral to the current events. Had he allowed Bertholdt to be eaten, conflict would never end and Marley would have destroyed Paradis Island along with all his family and friends. REMEMBER MARLEY WAS ALWAYS GOING TO STEAL THE FOUNDING TITAN AND ERADICATE THE 'ISLAND DEVILS' . He needed to influence events in the past in order to save Mikasa, Armin and everyone else, and this was the only option he saw :)
Hingu
2024-12-07 16:43:32 +0000 UTCEren had the founding titan, he was able to control any titan and was able to view past and future simultaneously. I also think Dina being Royal blooded Titan had some effect, but this is never stated, only implied as she acted differently from the other pure Titans and was able to find Eren again in season 2. The fact Eren did this hammers in a lot of the themes and ideas that the author wanted to get across and also ties back into the beginning of the series. Eren is not strong enough to save his mother, Hannes repeats this to him in the second episode of the series. it is constantly something that he has tried to deal with but couldn't, no matter how much power he obtained he couldn't change anything, despite now having the powers of essentially a god he is still as powerless as the day he saw his mom get eaten. It also touches on the idea that everything is deterministic and the past cannot be changed, Eren made the choice because he needed all other events to occur after that, which ultimately did so he believed by that point, he had no choice. Eren was a slave to freedom, he had an obsession with gaining his freedom and by the end, he was consumed by that obsession. I also think it is a form of justice in a way since Eren is committing mass genocide to gain his freedom, to fulfill it he would have to let his mom die, one of the primary motivations in the beginning of the story for him to go on this path. idk this a personal opinion but feels like karma, after the horrible act he committed that was his form of punishment. Makes Eren more of a tragic character as well, since it was all predetermined But yea everything was pre-determined. Despite Eren having the powers of the founding titan, he cannot stop or change anything. He is as powerless as the 10-year-old boy who saw his mom being devoured in Episode 1.
Man Lit
2024-12-07 16:40:50 +0000 UTCYes, i agree. He had choices, whether it was Zeke's euthanization plan, the rumbling or running away with Mikasa. He chose what was important to him. To put it in perspective, killing 80% is killing 4 out of 5 people. I would think most people would choose to save 1 significant other over 4 strangers.
Hingu
2024-12-07 16:37:15 +0000 UTCEren was given unlimited power by Ymir. With it Eren orchestrated the events that lead up to his own creation. Through paths he exists outside the timeline. In a deterministic world where the future is set, actions of a future person influencing their past self had always happened. All they're doing is closing the loop.
Danny B
2024-12-07 16:36:08 +0000 UTCYes I understand that, but I personally don’t like that writing choice. I don’t like how he is able to control every single titan at any point in the timeline and how he was responsible for having the titan kill his mother which is such a important part of Eren’s character and his reasons for doing what he does.
Lia Fiore
2024-12-07 16:30:40 +0000 UTCI think it’s not that Eren literally didn’t have a choice. It just that every other choice he saw led to his friends all dying from the outside world attacking them. He saw that the Rumbling was the only way to save as many of his friends that he could. What kept him on the path was that he saw the future AND his own nature.
MacarooniR0b
2024-12-07 16:29:38 +0000 UTCI think the reason it was Mikasa is because her love for Eren almost mirrors Ymir's love for King Fritz. One of the main things with this show is how we see Eren as the protagonist and "good guy" for the first 3 seasons. We get to know him and understand him, which is why we can understand and relate to his love with Mikasa, or rather we can understand why Mikasa would love him. From the point of view of an outsider though, Eren is a genocide committing mass murderer, who slaughtered millions of innocent lives. If you didn't see the first 3 seasons you wouldn't be able to understand why someone like Mikasa could love a monster like Eren. In that same way, we don't ever really see the story behind Ymir and King Fritz, but we know she loved him. We view the love between those two in the same way an outsider would view the love between Eren and Mikasa. I think Ymir connected with Mikasa for that reason, in that she loved someone who most others would consider a monster. Also, the point around Eren sending the smiling titan away from Bertholdt is pretty much what Molly said. In the paths there is no past or future. Eren can control all titans and can visit any point in time, which as established in season 2 when he had the coordinate and controlled the other titans to eat the smiling one. The founder essentially creates and can control all titans. The conversation with Armin is Eren visiting Armin at a prior point in time then erasing his memory once they were done. Also, this hasn't been confirmed but it's been my theory that the attack titan has no special powers and can't see the future, this is just a side-effect of how there is no past or future in the paths. It's not that the attack titan has some special power, it's that Eren is the attack titan, and Eren is able to pass those memories back to whoever he wants, specifically because he has full control of the founder at the end. i also don't think it's a time loop as people say. I think it's a commentary on the debate about whether free will exists or not. The show is essentially putting forward the argument that free will does not exist. It's not some magic time loop that is making everything happen, it's that the universe operates in a way that cause and effect drives everything, and it happens at such a fundamental level that people have no real control over their actions but we feel like we do because it's more comfortable to think of ourselves as having free will instead of the quite bleak outlook that you have no control over your life. I think it's an interesting topic and there are good arguments on both sides but I personally err on the side of thinking free will doesn't exist. I don't think the show explicitly calls this out but I think it's an interesting commentary on the debate. Ultimately Eren saying he has no idea why he done it and that he's just an idiot who got his hands on power makes sense. He carries the anger of his dad who suffered oppression due to his race, and has grown up being trapped within the walls, and even seen his childhood friend/love almost killed because of scumbags who wanted to traffic her. Ultimately all he cares about is protecting the people he loves. he can't internally intuit why he's doing these things but he's said multiple times throughout the series that it's because he's born into this world, which I think is the shows way of saying that being born is the ultimate root of who he is. At any rate that's just my take, people are free to disagree but regardless of what you think I hope you guys enjoyed the show.
Alan Bun
2024-12-07 16:24:52 +0000 UTCthere is no time tavel. Molly gets it! Memories of the past and future are shared between inheritors of the Attack Titan and hence influence their actions that all lead up to this point Also, like Historia mentions at the end, the outcome was not determined by Eren alone, but by all of humanity. The accumulative actions of every single character we see in this series led to this point1
Hingu
2024-12-07 16:20:21 +0000 UTCMolly gets it 😂
TalbertInc
2024-12-07 16:14:34 +0000 UTCEren sent it to his mom cuz he has the founding titan as well, so he can control every eldian
Nicholas
2024-12-07 16:02:37 +0000 UTCSorry but this was annoying as with the constant "I hate this, I do t like it" get over it its the story. The time loop you don't seem to grasp and eren had no choice. Not a happy ending. Doesn't make it bad but seriously stop complaining during the reaction. Gives thoughts after. Made it almost unbearable to watch the last bit
t-full F
2024-12-07 16:01:36 +0000 UTCThank you Lia ! I hope we won't wait another 12 hours for part 4 ! :D
Mesbah Mohamady
2024-12-07 15:59:15 +0000 UTCOMG!! SHE POSTED IT good morning Lia!
Paul Hankins
2024-12-07 15:28:51 +0000 UTCThis reaction getting split into more parts than AOT’s final season 😂
Sam Harrison
2024-12-07 15:25:12 +0000 UTCYessssss
gael tonfiss
2024-12-07 15:24:31 +0000 UTCMY SANITY HAS BEEN RESTORED!!!
Noah Winkler
2024-12-07 15:24:29 +0000 UTC
