The One About Transracialism

Also, full disclosure, ethnically I am White European Jew and culturally I'm Irish Catholic. aka A Hot Racial Mess

Gwared Shergwar

I am mad late to this and hate myself for it. Aspects of my PhD study were in the social science of 'cultural ethnicity' and 'racial ethnicity'. In direct reference to this episode, I would say that Bob's cultural ethnicity is Black American but racial ethnicity is African American. The cultural ethnicity of YT people in N. America is White American/White Canadian but their racial ethnicity is White European. Re: Charlize Theron - She is Culturally 'South African' but ethnically White African. It's a fascinating topic to make those distinctions in the discussion of transracialism and would love a revisit on this to see how your own opinions have changed as society has progressed (even in 18 months), If you need a nerd guest, just yell!

Gwared Shergwar

Meet me by the tater tots had me cracking upp

Guess we all have different definitions....... to me, if you look white, you are white (with chinese ancestry). either that, or you're biracial

Gonzales

ONE OF MY FAVS

Daniel

BRING HER BACK

Daniel

WHAT IS GOING ON WITH BOB, IM SO LATE LOL

Daniel

Do we ever get to hear the end of Monet’s Bette Midler story??????????

i'm so late to this but im with Monet. That definition doesn't make sense. I'm mixed (white and chinese) but i look white. i don't agree that i am therefore white. Some people have the same mix as me but look more asian. So why are they now more asian than me? I loved the convo as its not a term i've even heard of before.

I have seen two people that were adopted into a family that is ethnically different from them and they may be ethnically another race, but culturally the race they grew up in. So I think being transculturally could be a thing rather than just saying your another race when you are physically genetically not.

It warmed my heart hearing y'all talking about Maddox. Her videos were some of my first introductions to drag and Drag Race and I was so in love with her confidence and spirit. Her passing away was pretty hard for me but its sweet to hear her name live on amongst you guys <3

Cam

Kizha saying she is from okc made me smile because I can’t wait to get out of here like she did

Agreed. This conversation was ill-informed from the start

Just watched this. Please bring more Kizha. She was so good

please know that so many of us young white american jews are not buying into the zionism shtick and are either critical or actively anti zionist. we're working on reforming our parents but old jews are stubborn.

mariah beth

This is the littlest Monet has ever seemed, and even she was a baby once

Bob’s video is cracking me up 😂😂

When monet says what I think happened and bob slightly tilts the head lmao

this episode was sooo good

Willard Paul

Bobs video is crunchy

LaWanda Wakanda

Real Talk im legit in tears from how much i resonated with the whole being a queer black black american and like feeling like i wouldn't be welcome and africa and the whole clingng to whatever african culture can (and maybe not doing it right) bc of not knowing because it was ripped away from so many of us. Like this really HIT ME.

This discussion was super fascinating, and Monet’s reaction to the dictionary definition of race was amazing and so valid. I train therapists with anti racism curriculum to increase their effectiveness across race and culture and getting into the semantics of race always sends everyone to Mars. Because it’s designed to! It is both biologically real AND a culture bound construct, fluid and fixed - all because the physicality of how people look has been exploited to oppress different groups for centuries - so the goal posts move forever. You can’t make sense of insanity. Also, Ijeoma Oluo interviewed Rachel Dolezal a few years ago and it’s honestly the best and only last word on her whole thing.

Thank you for posting this!

M

I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO NOTICED HAHAHA

So I’m going to say it like this Transracialism stems from white privilege. We see this with a mixed raced (black) person. The closest they’d get to being transracial is identifying as mixed race. Society would not allow it. If society determines race then the rules of hierarchy would apply.

ceresa lee

How about instead of "culture hopping" for an identity, we're just more inclusive of 'others', with regards to their appreciation, even experience within that culture, NOT skin tone ...?

TruCentrinoTech

Imagine you can just leave 'the struggle', (systemic racism etc.) by claiming white? Under transracialism, white ppl can leave the struggle whenever they want —like sorry, being black isn't in my fantasy for today. Honestly, if it were as easy as claiming whiteness, a lot of us would've jumped ship already, because of anti-blackness. I think the only real difference here, is that race has been institutionalized with stigma, "otherism". Anti-blackness is still a thing, colorism, white supremacy —light or whiteness is still the global "preference", where as ppl with deeply darker skin are made to feel inadequate. Now put on the table the ability to transition race —everyone's gonna be running for this tanned middle ground, fetishizing that appeal. So we have to be very careful about feeding anti-blackness or colorism indirectly, with the idea that your skin tone either validates/ invalidates your experience or is the key to you becoming everything you've ever wanted to be.

TruCentrinoTech

Me too I was like I’m a millennial dreamer so fuck my drag huh 😂

I loved this episode. I love meeting your friends 🙈 I also wouldn’t be mad at like 2 guests

Brian Payan

I’m a DREAMer and thought what monet said was hilarious 😂

Kevin Anthony

This was such a fascinating conversation.

J Brodo

I feel like a fool for just getting to this! But on the note on the Latinx/Hispanic races, we have races that don't exist in the English language. My family all identifies as Mestizo which means we are a mix of Indigenous and European

Sebastian Patino

I really like it when you guys have guests on the show. But sometimes I wish Bob will let the guest say more than 7 words! Lol.

WAIT MONET NO PLEAAAAAASSE IVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT MAKING GAY CODE FOR YEARS PLEASE LET ME IN ON THIS. I EVEN GOT TWEETS TO PROVE IT 😭

Christopher Davis

This episode really has me thinking. Love these kind of episodes, thank you, very thought provoking!

Just to add another perspective and feedback if Jacob or Bob or Monet happen to read this: hearing Bob speak about pan-africanism was so moving and I am grateful to be able to listen and learn. Black Americans were violently and purposefully separated from African culture since slave codes all the way to Marcus Garvey and Ghana's program to this day. It is so important that more people are able to learn about their heritage and possibly gain access to an ethnicity and culture they were removed from. On a separate note, the correlation between trans people and transracialism seemed to be illogical on many fronts. First, although they are undeniably both social constructs, gender is a construct that heavily relies on the individual. Every person naturally falls somewhere in between two extreme snapshots of personality and appearance (ie, a horseshoe with a dainty woman on one end and a macho man on the other). Even in the case of perception (i.e Bob's point about your experience is your truth), people are able to work with and against gender norms to effect how others seem them. Whereas with race, the construct has no reliance on the individual. What I mean here is that, as seen in the miriam webster definition, race is based on physical appearance. There is no ability to translate the race you consider yourself onto the race you are perceived as. In other words, race is a binary trait that has been weaponized to sort people into different economic, social, and phycological classes for hundreds of years. Black people have either endured or come from (in the case of "passing") the endurance of violence, brutality, and nonsense systems that created the country we live in today. Whereas gender cannot be passed down, and cannot be tied to a history. Hence, transracialism is only an idea, and cannot actually be practiced without a false and harmful lie about the social caste someone is born into (which they have no control over). Trans people, on the other hand, are simply identifying themselves as who they truly are; there is no one way to be trans, other than to just exist. Overall, then, there is a clear difference in terms of agency: you cannot chose how others treat you, but you can chose to understand and accept yourself.

Really interesting conversation. I have a hard time comparing transgender and transracialism but I appreciate the conversation because talking it out is how we grow. I did want to share something regarding ethnicity vs. nationality which I find interesting. Re: AncestryDNA- I am white, no question. Over half of my DNA results do not indicate a specific country/nationality but an ethnicity of Ashkenazi Jewish (European Jewish). This is different from Sephardic Jews, who are from Iberian Peninsula/North Africa. So, Bob, if you called me on the phone and needed to know my ethnicity, it might help for me to say I’m an Ashkenazi Jew because that’s an probably an accurate way to describe me 😂

Has anyone heard of a book called “Black Like Me”? It’s not transracialism in the sense of the podcast but a book made in 1961 by a white journalist that was cosmetically altered to pass as black in the Deep South and his experiences contrasted from his perspective as a person of privilege. I had to read in high school in Canada. It’s really ahead of it’s time.

Patrick Tanedo

This feels very black face to me one way. In another way it feels like someone is just bored with their culture or their identity. Culture, race, and identity aren’t costumes. You can be proud of your family, and traditions even if you’re white. You don’t have to steal someone else’s 💀🤭

This discussion specifically asking "What is my ethnicity as a black American?" makes me think of Malcolm X. Malcolm X explained that the "X" symbolized his true African family name that he could never know. "For me, my 'X' replaced the white slavemaster name of 'Little' which some blue-eyed devil named Little had imposed upon my paternal forebears." The X marks a place where you can invent your own identity, despite the evil of slavery having taken away an inherited culture or legacy from your ancestors. Funnily enough, though, Malcolm X did not believe in assimilation at all. Watch Malcolm X explain it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-X9yMnhM6w

MONET where did you get your PHONE CASE?????

bobs audio just giving up :(

M JM

race does not equal ethnicity tho. you can be white and only raised by black americans but it doesnt make you a black american. it makes you white but raised by black americans

panz

Monét & Bob, please do Queer Code! I would happily auditioned my tight gay ass for that series

Sir Ian Luca

Is bobs wig upside down??

Why did I think I could study while listening to this!! ☠☠☠

Jennifer Ayala

participation was denied!!! Assimilation was another tool used to colonize the minds of slaves and natives.

Y’all transracial has been associated with children who are adopted by a different race most commonly seen with white parents and black children. Rachel Dolaz hijacked this term and now it is associated with her. Highly recommend you guys do your research next time

Transracialism sounds like white people trying to assuage their white guilt while being able to participate in black culture....the only reason this is a topic is because a white woman said so. If I as a black person cannot operate in this world as white woman and reap the benefits of that simply because I woke up and decided I was transracial, how can we legitimize a white woman stepping into and acting out her definition of blackness, creating a term for it, and now its in the dictionary, THAT IS WHITE PRIVILEGE.

YinkaBeauty

When I think of trans-racial I think of this moment from UK morning TV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dUbGWf6zpA

What do you think about wyt queens who do or did slave numbers, like Holly Dae at Queen.

such a wild topic I can’t speak to at all but I’ve had some really interesting class discussions about “transracialism.” It really makes students think and gets them fired up about understanding definitions of race and how it’s socially constructed. maybe this episode would be a good class assignment!

Caitlin C

crunch queen supreme 🥴

Rick Betita

Bob's Wifi access is extremely relatable.

No shade, but getting a Drag Mother/Father sounds a lot like getting a sponsor in AA/NA. Lol. Sometimes you get someone who follows you around, goes to the same meetings, meets you once and then says your their sponsor (happened to me multiple times). Then the first person I asked to be my sponsor said I should be with another person since they were an alcoholic and I was an addict (obvi the person they recommended was an addict as well). I had to chuckle because what Kizha was saying sounded just like my experiences when it came to getting sponsored and being one myself.

Rebekah

I’m so grateful to have the experiences that I have had. I’m white from a small town. I didn’t grow up with financial riches, however my parents blessed us with so much knowledge, experiences, and understanding. My parents surrounded us with wonderful people...people who just happened to be Black, Asian, Native American, Gay, Straight, Trans, etc. They allowed us to make our own mind when it came to politics. I had the privilege to go to Europe, in high school, thanks to my grandparents. I went to Dachau. It was one of the most emotional days I’ve ever had. It was a powerful experience. My brother was able to go to Africa multiple times. Once to go to school at the Nelson Mandela school. He traveled to Rwanda, Zambia, Botswana, South Africa, The Democratic Republic of Congo, etc. He has taught me so much from him staying/living there and we continued to have communication with a friend of his who lived in Rwanda. I thought of these experiences while you spoke. I hope that I communicated this appropriately, I wanted to say how grateful I was..especially because I grew up in a town predominantly white, Christian, middle class. I wish others would listen, learn, and grow from others.

Rebekah

This is a the first time I've seen Kizha despite hearing all about her in your previous podcasts! This was great!

That was an awesome discussion. I think in a way, despite Catholicism, black latinx communities got to experience "African" culture more closely because of Afro-latinx religions like camdomble, santeria, umbanda, etc. There are also the quilombola communities that still incorporate so much of their African ancestry, including African languages and dialects, eg Bantu; and, from my experience living in America, you guys don't really have these experiences.

When Mo said she was going to text Merriam, I so expected Bob to say "maybe you should beep her.."

Brian Springer

i pray this is a joke lmao

vvsmalcolm

Not bob glitching out at end.... LOL luv you guys, good episode

Silas Chester

Such a wonderful episode! There's a Black Irish TikToker I follow (who is amazing btw! bonbonod14) who says his nationality is Irish, his race is Black, and his ethnicity is Igbo. It helped me understand a lot better the difference between nationality, race, and ethnicity. Ethnicity confuses me the most because your "cultural identification" could be a lot of things, and deeply personal. When Rachel Dolezal was in the news, it was the first time I ever heard the word "transracial," but from what I remember people were saying transracial is absolutely a thing but it's not applicable to Rachel - it's a term mainly reserved for transracial adoptees.

Sarah

I loved this episode. As a black woman I have heard growing up that Africans, Haitians, Caribbean, and other POC don’t like American Blacks, also ive had African friends who’ve heard that we don’t like them so I don’t know how it started but it’s definitely a thing. What I will say though, Bob talked a lot about wanting yearning for culture that was taken away from our ancestors, I don’t think Black Americans get enough credit or give ourselves enough credit for the culture we do have. We have traditions, language, style etc that ppl all over the world want to imitate or be apart of. We poppin af! A lot of the things we’ve created are under appreciated until it catches the eye of someone else.

what’s missing from all these conversations is the WHY! Why did dolezal want to be Black? It wasn’t cultural fit or anything else, it was to take opportunities from Black folks. She didn’t get up and twist out her hair to go work at a call center or as an accountant and get paid 63 cents for every 80cents she would have gotten paid as a yt woman. She did it to head a NAACP chapter, a job that would have almost certainly gone to a Black person. She literally used it to further her career. It’s actually offensive to even discuss transgender folks in the same conversation as so-called “transracial” ppl like dolezal. She didn’t wake up a single day with depression or racial dysphoria because she was yt. She said “oh ppl will respect my work on Blk ppl if they think I’m Blk” which is a very different and harmful idea. Eric Foner did it while yt, why couldn’t she??? And when Bob says “could you imagine if Kizha said she identified as yt?” THATS the whole argument for me. None of us Black folks can claim we identify as yt and live our lives free of employment, housing, or health care discrimination. We can’t wear a wig and expect equal access to resources, well funded public schools, and fairness in policing or sentencing.

Brandie

NOT Bob explaining pagers/beepers to the babes

Jenn D.

RACE?!?!? *Laughs in Peppermint*😂😂

I’m gonna be honest, I could only get through about maybe 20 minutes of this episode

kai

This was an amazing ep! 😍

Awwwww Maddox Madison! I miss her alot. The fact she died right before Bianca won killed me. I loved her videos, and her collabs. Man that was great to hear.

Vito V

Kizha needs to be a regular!

Bob laying down FACTS. The part where you addressed how Italian Americans and other European white populations were given the privilege to grow up immersed with their culture and carry on traditions. The African people who were enslaved had zero choice and have had to made it up as they go and white people are always going to criticize anything black people claim. My grandmother came from Cuba and just decided she wanted to live the life of a white American so I never got the opportunity to learn Spanish and celebrate more traditions brought from Cuba. I know I am a white person, but also my ethnicity is Hispanic and I identify with it because I'm proud of it. But I'm not going to one day start latinfishing. I am what I am.

What's the t?

I am obsessed with Kizha. Honestly one of the best guests I've heard on a podcast in awhile, she fit in seamlessly with you guys! This topic makes me think a lot about my son, who is half Hispanic and half white. My husband felt a lot of pressure growing up to "be more Mexican" in terms of personality so we've said from the beginning we will raise him with both sides and let him choose what he connects with. At the same time he takes after my white ass in terms of looks so there is definitely going to be a difference in experience if he feels more connected to his Hispanic side. So much to talk and think about with this topic, thank you for bringing it up!

Historically there are a lot of BIPOC folk that have exercised racial passing to survive prosecution in the US, and there are movies, books, documentaries, etc. about it. I don't know if from a sociological perspective racial passing is considered a form of transracialism, but it does exist. Similarly in China, there is rampant Hanification (forcing of the Han ethnic cultural practices and values on non-Han groups) would could be seen as a form of forced transracialist assimilation.

Ok but Im obsessed with Kizha now.

Omg I loved this podcast/video thingy. The topic is so controversial. Def had me talking out loud as if I was there with y’all having a conversation. Majored in race and ethnic studies so it def took me back to randomly talking about race and ethnicity with my college friends 😭

Pre-discussion thought(w/o watching the episode): Transracialism is not a thing, just white people finding new ways to be oppressed (stay tuned for my thoughts afterwards)

YinkaBeauty

I appreciate you calling attention to this meaning of the term. However, I feel it wasn't necessary to add your interpretation of how we do or don't experience race, especially given that you literally just learned that sense of the word. From my experience as a transnational, transracial korean-american adoptee and from listening to other transracial adoptees, our racial identifications are much more complex than how you described it. For example, I was raised as white by my white parents and there was a huge dissonance between that and my actual lived experience having my asianness being reflected back to me by most people in the world. Because I was largely socialized into a white european cultural identity, claiming a stable korean or asian identity isn't a simple or obvious thing. Reclaiming my koreanness is actually an ongoing process and not adoptees choose to do as I am. Also other people often haven't accepted me as a "real asian.” (Ever heard of the term twinkie?) On the other hand, because I present as asian, I also can't claim a white identity. That may seem obvious from the outside, but this is an incredibly confusing thing to experience as a kid being raised and socialized by white people. The kinds of experiences I'm describing are not at all uncommon among transracial adoptees.

LOL WAIT TIL THEY FIND OUT ABOUT BRUNO MARS

nadia

Omg I’m from OKC too lmao

Nick Ballas

BUT you can’t claim an entire history of middle passage babies and skip off into the sunset. No ma’am.

Simone

You can fight for equality, visibility, appreciate people from around the globe.. being in the skin you’re in when it comes to “race” especially in this country where it’s been created and used to diminish, demean and outright abuse.

Simone

Rachel Dolezal literally spoke of experiences that were not her own.. having kinky hair for example.. she folk speaking opportunities from actual Black women.. Michelle Obama speaks of an invisibility that I can more than relate to and I’m sure countless others can too. So for someone to swoop in and say oh I’m that too with no regard... it’s so hurtful.. was at the time for sure for me.

Simone

Such a thought provoking episode and I loved Kizha being on this episode as well! Would love more guests:)

This was a very interesting discussion and one that I struggle with a lot. I was born in Australia to immigrant parents from South America. However, while my mum's family has been in South America for generations and generations, my father's parents were born in Russia and Lithuania. This makes me very white passing (while my brother and mother are not) but still ambiguous enough to be asked "where are you from?". My nationality is Australian and I identify as Australian but I also identify as Latinx. Similarly my father never identified as Russian or European but as Latinx because of where he was born and raised. Like in America, white Australians can be considered "Australian" while any one else, born here or otherwise, will always be asked what their background is. I also feel as though my experiences as someone who is a lot more white passing is different to that of my mother and brother. Race and ethnicity are very complex and it's always fun to dissect it!

Monét has officially won the argument. Bob has the crunchiest audio and video. I was cracking up when Bob's face kept freezing.

love sibling rivalry! what this discussion is missing is nationality. in monet's example of the asian people in jamaica, i think she is referring to chinese laborers who immigrated to jamaica in the mid 19th century. in this case they identify as chinese-jamaican, ie ethnically chinese, of jamaican nationality, and asian racially. all of this gets muddled depending on where in the world you go of course, as race especially is so locally constructed (like bob's examples of various brazilians). generally, i do agree with some of what bob and kizha said, in that race is not only how you look and how others perceive you, but how you are treated AND ALSO how much you inherit the history/historical formation/historical treatment of a racial group. kizha spoke about this wrt reparations, ie a white person "identifying as black" doesn't actually have any history those reparations are compensating for. tldr that history cannot be inherited via self-orientation.

I looked up the actual, original meaning of the word transracial and it is a word used to describe children of one race who are raised by adoptive guardians of a different race. Transracialism in this sense does NOT assert that adoptees of these guardians necessarily identify as a different race, but describes the different set of experiences that they face, such as cultural erasure and tokenism, as a result of being adopted by guardians of another race (usually white). So I do want to apologize for saying that it doesn't exist. It exists in the terms that I've stated here. It does not exist in the way that Rachel Dolezal or people of the like have been misusing it. It still stands that the podcast has unfortunately spread misinformation on the subject and hopefully they follow up with a rebuttal to clear this up.

Gayle King Kong

I wish I could heart react to this 100 times

Natasha Petit

The term transracialism as it's used is a misnomer and diminishes the experiences of people who are actually "transracial". This is a whole episode about culture jacking and colonialism, and that will always merit a heated debate from smart people, especially when the original discussion is riddled with inaccuracies.

What is up with some people getting mad that they talked about this? This was a GREAT episode to open conversations. Why is it not ok for people to have a discussion together before doing research and learning more about the topic together? Trans is also an english prefix that can be used as a term to describe changing form or position, transitional, transportation, transatlantic ect. But with the modern meaning of trans being shortened slang for a transgender identifier, I think some people link those two and ask the questions they were discussing in the podcast. I dont think they dont owe us any kind of lecture, I personally love the natural flow of conversation they give us, it allow us as patrons to ask questions, give answers, share information and interact with them on a way more personal level. I love you Bob and Monet ❤️

KSolstice

First of all I loved this episode! Can we please have more episodes in the future about nigga shit!!? Also Bob since you live in LA now, can you be my drag momma? I can sew. 🤗🤗

Jay_Caanodii

This conversation is so dumb!! Being a woman or man isn’t about the experiences that make you a man or a woman it’s about feeling connected to one of the genders or none of them. There is no safe space for motherfuckers who want to go around and steal the best part of a race or culture but surely will hide back into their birth Race when things get dodgy. If you aren’t down with punching people like Rachelyn Dolespineapple slice in the face then you’re on the wrong side of the argument. I’m glad I finally got coin to be a patreon! Thanks Joe Biden! Lol

It cracks me up when Bob talks about Netlfix mailing out dvds. They still mail out dvds. Great podcast!

That's true, but they were born with those features and were trying to escape prejudices. That's still different than a white person changing their features and performing their idea of Blackness and claiming experiences they've never had.

transracial is white privilege. white people can aggressively tan and then preform their own warped idea of blackness like rachel dolezals numerous "hate crimes" that were fabricated for attention. and if you have dark skin nobody will see you as a white person. it doesnt go both ways

Thank you for this.

JoquishaJoestar

I mean, start your understanding in that we are all just brains trapped in bone and flesh. While we can say both race and gender are social constructs, gender identity does have neurological basis whereas the race conversation is primarily (but not exclusively) cultural. Culture is taught, culture is lived, it's more external. Historical, even. Gender is intrinsicly a part of you even if you did lack the vocabulary to describe it.

Jordan M Badeaux

history has shown that transgender and nonbinary people have existed forever, but we havent had any history of "transracial" people until very recently. just my take, but i think this is an important convo to have, especially those of us who are queer/trans/nb AND BIPOC

I love Kizha so much! She’s so intelligent and funny , thank you for introducing her to us on the pod!!!

Allie

yes to that episode idea!

aina

Regarding birthright: you have to not be black for it. Ugandan jewish folks are regularly excluded.

eris laughs

What I'm mulling over: "I Am" vs. "I Identify As" + why society often wants it be "proved" . Holding space for the Transgender Experience without comparing to the concept of Transracialism.

There's nothing pioneering, brilliant, or unique about a black drag queen in a blond wig lip syncing to a Britney number in Hell's Kitchen lol.

This conversations and comments are reading like a Philosophy Class. Like we're not going to 'solve' any one idea, but discuss to further understand existence and each other. Fascinating! Thanks for making a space to talk about Transracialism. I'll be thinking about this all week.

I dont think transracialism could be a thing. I also think its offensive and dangerous.

I highly recommend y'all listen to the Zora's Daughters podcast, especially episode 9 on colorism, where they discuss people like Jessica Krug, and their newest episode, "Not My Latinidad." They are two Black women anthropologists who discuss this and related topics in a way that is accessible and understandable. Honestly, anyone who listened through this episode should go there for a more...researched take.

Kamry Goodwin

Not at all the point of this amazing episode but do the queer code thing! I WILL PAY

Clio

i was literally waiting for bob to step up and say something comparing transgender to transracial was such a horrible take yikes

What a great topic to discuss!! So entertaining and educational! Amazing work!!

chile...yall just loud and wrong lmao bless yall

In my opinion I think ultimately people can immerse themselves, enjoy, and live respectfully within culture that is not their own but going as far as saying "well now I'm this race" is problematic. Not everyone is a social scientist so yall should kind of chill on bashing and focus more on teaching maybe?

WERQ DJ

They were the best ❤️

Brianna L

The main difference between trans racialism and Trans genderism is that race is associated moreso with culture ESPECIALLY Latino and black cultures. So, while both are definitely about perception as reality and if you look like a gender or a race you are that, there is also lived experience and culture with race that you don’t necessarily get with gender, which is why transracialism is not the same and can be deemed offensive. For example, women share an experience yes of misogyny, but is there a binding culture amongst all women? No not necessarily. However, PARTICULARLY in the Black American community, there is a binding culture and black American is not only a race it is in and of itself a culture for many reasons. So a white person saying they’re now black is akin to me, an Irish person, saying I’m Ukrainian. No we don’t share the same culture.

Joseph Shanahan

Ugh I WISH this was a stereo episode because I have a Bachelor’s in Sociology and have SO MUCH TO SAY on this topic. Hit me up for a guest spot on sociological topics!!

Joseph Shanahan

So glad I subscribed! Now I don't know whether we are ASSIGNED a race at birth. The way I frame my race\ethnicity (vaguely mediterranean white) is based on ancestry and phenotypical traits alike. I don't think we really have an equivalent to sex vs race when it comes to race or ethnicity.

Marco Stevanin

If your white passing and less than 50% black then you are not black

Dionna Turner-kiser

Thanks Daisy. As a transnational, transracial adoptee, I appreciate this!

Lmfao not Bob's wifi being homophobic AF lol.

Robert Khachatryan

I am a white-passing mixed race person and HATE when people try to police my blackness and usually it is from white people. I am not a .2 percent black, way down in my ancestry. I am a 1/4 black but my genes just don't show it. I get latinx a lot too but i can't stand when white people say i act too black or ghetto for a white person. Like 1. Bitch im not white and 2. I will act whatever way i want to. They always need proof of my blackness too. Like i need a blood sample and ancestry print-off and at least 5 black family members with me. When i tell black people i am mixed or black they are just like "ok, cool." I wasn't raised with the white side of my family only my black side so i am way more comfortable around a black community. I have had more black experiences and been near them my whole life. I identify more with my black side but i still identify as a mixed person. BUT i dont try to identify myself as a person of color because they actually go through struggles just from their skin color and i have white passing skin so i can't relate to those struggles nor try to identify with them when i have the benefits of being "white" like i would like my blackness to be acknowledged at least and allow me to be mixed but i know my skin won't be weaponized by cops and white people so i can't say that me and any person of color are the same.

Caleb

Bob you should've worn your black face or done your slave for you number for this podcast!! lmfao

GIRLS! You look fire!

different languages, cultures, FOOD! very distinct identities

I gotta say as a hella white passing guy (Cherokee/white); it can be tough. As I was raised with our traditional knowledge and practices even to the level of being fairly fluent in our language as a child yet have been told on multiple occasions because my features/ complexion might not match the stereotypical views of what a native should appear as phenotypically; that I am a fraud or putting up fronts. Honestly always be telling them to take it up with my dad; though the fact that his phenotypes are what can "verify" my identity is problematic on its own. Thanks you for this conversation and space y'all!

Thanks so much for this episode! As a mixed raced, white passing guy (SEA/White), racial identity is something I find myself discussing a lot. You bring up a good point around 37.58 talking about Barack Obama. Bob says that race is defined by how the world perceives you and therefor Obama is black. But Monet asks, if he identified as white, would be white? And Bob and Kizha say no. But isn't this the crux of the discussion about Rachel Dolezal? Is she white because the majority of people are saying she's white or is she black because she identifies ask black? Personally, I think it's more complicated than that as there are two different sets of factors. Those that can be seen as nature vs nurture ie. genetic vs environmental. Some factors you can choose or not, others you cannot.

agree with everyone’s takes in the comments here, but i do still really appreciate you guys doing these discussions on more serious topics (especially with guests), even tho this one obviously left somethings to be desired for most people. don’t be weary to do a more serious, less pop-culture focused pod every now and then, even if the final product isn’t extremely researched. ♥️

Erin Sullivan

I felt the crack in Bob’s voice when he said he thought Africans don’t like African Americans. As an African European we love you and you are more than welcome on the motherland 😊 Kizha is stunning and I’m so happy to see her. Love you guys

Stephane

I’m white and have been told many times that I look Asian due to certain features, but I don’t identify as Asian because that was not how I have experienced life. I agree with Bob’s idea that you are what you experience, and If I were to call myself Asian, and adapt to the culture, I’d be forcing an experience, rather than simply living it. In conclusion, I’m not really here for trans-racialism.

Jade Hunter

North Africa is an interesting case, isn't it? I've heard North Africans self-identify as both Middle Eastern and African. But regarding Bob, Khizia and Monet's question about South Africans, I've never met a South African who *didn't* self-identify as African.

Iskandar (they, them)

Same here. As a person with a gender identity under the trans umbrella, I found this conversation really upsetting.

Iskandar (they, them)

Thank you!

Iskandar (they, them)

I'm in the UK, and it's pretty much the same, though "Asian" is used to encompass the Indian subcontinent as well as East and Southeast Asia here. As an Iranian, I don't fit into that categorisation, yet Iran is literally in Asia.

Iskandar (they, them)

Bob's face at 1:19:46 during screen freeze is high art and has great merch potential

I love this conversation. So good seeing my girl Kizha on the show. As far as the definition of Racism is concerned, there’s this really great video on YouTube from a series called MTV Decoded where they break down race and racial issues for the common person to be able to understand. I suggest everyone check it out. One of the videos talks about the definition of racism and the girl in the video makes a great point that Race is not something that can be condensed into a single definition in the dictionary. So instead of turning to Merriam Webster, we should look to Sociologists who basically study the human race. Here is the video for anyone who wants to check it out: https://youtu.be/8eTWZ80z9EE

Great. Epi. Sode. Except Bob's video and audio was SUPER crunchy for a good bit of it. Jacob, please advise.

yarpyarp

Absolutely not. That's why this isn't a thing.

Jessica

you totally should, i would love a longer explanation on how black/white racial terms are extremely different depending on where you go in the world since bob touched on it so accurately

THIS content is what i think a lot of people come to the patreon for.I might be speakin for myself but I think as much as we love a good disney or bridgerton kiki theres a big LGBT and POC following here that's really interested in what LGBT POC have to say about LGBT POC issues. would love an ep on zionism vs antisemitism with jacob i really really liked his little aside to explain it

Also please please continue content like this! It’s exactly what I’ve been yearning for

Pablo Lopez

Jackie Cox is NOT Pakistani. She is Persian. Iran and Pakistan border each other, but they are entirely different countries with different official languages.

Iskandar (they, them)

Monet saying that Americans are oblivious to world views and world news is the truest thing that was said here. I'm a French-Persian person living in the UK and I am truly gobsmacked that you all didn't have more knowledge of the topics raised in this episode. I'm actually kind of upset about it. Because if you, as sensitive, intelligent, open-minded people haven't done the basic research into issues like Middle Eastern politics, African identities, all the stuff you touched on here... I feel like there's no hope. I mean, I'm also pretty upset about the comparison of "transracialism" to being transgender.

Iskandar (they, them)

“gender and race are two completely different phenomenons” hit the nail on the head for me, ty for articulating this brilliantly. they should have a follow up convo interrogating some of the statements they made like when they talked about “transracial” people reaping the benefits of reparations without any struggle, i feel like transphobes have used that argument against trans people specifically trans women, and it’s completely invalid. it’s valid in terms of transracial people but that’s because they don’t exist ? idk hope im making sense and i really hope there’s a pt 2 of this ep with research and experts like others have commented

maria

Can I get Zack’s number 😍😍😍

There goes Bob again with his crunchy ass audio I usually always agree with Bob but monet was right when she said Bob had crunchy audio

Breezy

Y'all needed to do much much much more research before putting out such a problematic video like the fact the even bob signed off on this has me shook

If you haven’t listened yet, Lacey Mosley has a hilarious episode about her on Scam Goddess Podcast! “ELIHARIA!” lol

Clemenza

So like are we going to ignore Monet’s idea Queer Code?? Because I would watch that all day everyday.

Pablo Lopez

Muah, this is chef’s kiss! Perfection! I teach in Women’s Studies! And Im a nigga too! A negress.

Wait, educate me on this. Because I know of transgendered people (yes, I'm using that) who told me that it's better to use that term because it's uncomfortable when I refer to them as just "trans". Why is it considered a micro aggression?

Francis Nelson

About 20/25 mins in and I thought of this video... https://youtu.be/H9mtCLL8rI0 Would LOVE to hear your thoughts on this lady and the little community she lives in, the way she was raised etc. Love you guys! ❤

R S

Also, I live in Phoenix and you are right about the lack of diversity as frequently I am almost always the only black woman or one of a few black people in a packed bar.

Red Lipstick Club Podcast

Transracialism is fuckery. Anyway, I love hearing you talk about your NYC performing days, and how you name queens that are not as famous as you, giving them their props.

Es Dub

This reminds me of Human Ken or Bieber guy. Trust, look them up. I dont believe it exists tbh. I think this is another example of a ppl calling themselves doctors ruin I ng lives

Gu

I watched this documentary on Amazon Prime called Little White Lie where a biracial girl was raised to believe that she was only Jewish (white) when in fact her father was actually a black man. It was crazy and even crazier once she was placed in a predominately black environment and how that changed her entire perception of herself. Worth the watch.

Red Lipstick Club Podcast

Kizha was great! I'm happy you guys don't shy away from these topics. I'm not expecting literary research here, just convo

Derek Williams

Another person I think identifies as transracial is this dude named Oli London. He’s very controversial. He has spent tons of money to look like Park Jimin, a Korean man in the kpop group BTS. He identifies as Korean. He firmly believes this. But he is from Great Britain and is white in appearance. However if you’re modeling yourself obsessively after just one person, is that true transracialism if transracialism is a thing?

Bob having technical issues? Nooooo. Lol

Terrah Card

They wanna see them talk about Kandy v Tamisha i bet! haha

Derek Williams

Roommate!

So proud of Bob for being able to break down the difference between Black Americans and other groups in the African diaspora.

Hi! What's the name of the NPR episode? I'm looking through it on Spotify and can't seem to come across it.

ty as always for these amazing perspectives

OWEN MCKINNEY

I just wanna say in case it hasn’t been said, Jackie Cox is Persian. Her family is from Iran.

‘Transgendered ppl’ omg say trans or transgender. I lost brain cells . Y’all shoulda done a lil reading before all the micro aggressions

Brandon Edwards

There are brown people in Brazil who call themselves white because there isn't a Brown identity here, brown is not a race in Brazil. It's super complicated and I could go on about it for hours because it's my experience and I'm a social scientist 💁🏽‍♀️ but I'll just explain it as a racial limbo, cause today I'm lazy. I can explain my thoughts if someone wants it though.

Race is about phenotype which is genetic. Gender is not genetic. Cultural appropriation in sheep’s clothing

Brandon Edwards

I feel like what Monet was focusing more on at first what more the literal ancestry and genetics. Genetics-wise, we're all a huge hodge-podge. Outside you can have a white, black, and asian person. But a black person can have more alleles/genes in common with a white person or asian person than another black person sometimes. There are very few differences between the myriad of shades we see in humans.

Cierra Sullivan

I posted my comment below and your twitter thread perfectly echoes what I've read disproving the validity of transracialism. You put it well.

Gayle King Kong

Literally one of the TOP episodes ever. I need more rounded out content like this. I’m not saying a 3rd CONSISTENT perspective, because I love Bob and Monét, but I love the in depth topics with an extra opinion 🥰🥰

I am ALLLLL here for Queercode!!!

b nixon

Trans-racialism is so strange to me.... And seems to be born out the need for white people to categorize and label others. As a Chicano I hate the question "what ARE you?" And it's only ever asked by white people. Like they need to know what kind of "other" I am. Sometimes I get playful and say American. Which is always followed up with "but where are your parents/grandparents from?" Why can't I just be American? And why is it any of your business? Reminder, for many Chicanos, the border crossed us. Not the other way around. I also did a 23 and me. Do you know what my Mexican decent is classified as in 23 and me? Native American. Just saying. . .

Idk if I’m for transracial to me it just feels like that said person isn’t proud of there heritage and where they come from. I love Asian culture but I won’t identify as Asian because today’s not my life experience like Bob mentioned. This isn’t like religion were you can convert to it. This is just what I feel.

i really enjoyed this episode

Ryan Mortenson

It wasn't a lecture though, they were talking... Jacob only looked up a few things.

jessica bw

Thank you so much for this discussion. It was deep without being terribly heavy. Although, I could be wrong, I felt a lot of passion and perhaps some hurt and longing when Bob was talking about wearing kente and not knowing the cultures of Africa ... I felt that. I got a little choked up. We have a unique identity as African Americans. Unlike a lot of Blacks in the Caribbean, where most of the people and those in power are black, we have had a slightly different experience in the modern era.

jessica bw

I think this is also a good place to call out "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander & "Black Sexual Politics" by Patricia Hill-Collins

I don't know why I didn't think to read the comments on Patreon! I just so happen to be a social scientist (Family Studies BS, Family Therapy MS, Sociology MA, and a piece of a Soc PHD) and I dropped my thoughts in a Twitter thread. Check it out here: https://twitter.com/_DooleyNoted_/status/1357037549722738690?s=20 In short...Being Trans-Racial isn't a thing and lacks any type of context to support it as a viable state-of-being.

the DREAMERs thing just took me OUT LOL

Eddie Avila

ADORE KIZHA 😍🤩Please keep bringing her on, this podcast was One for the ages🙏🏽💖

CJ Burgos

love you both but highkey this is some transphobic bullshit 🥺

For anyone who's looking to learn more about the historical roots of race as a marker of socio-economic caste in America, I recommend checking out Isabel Wilkerson's book Caste: The Origins of our Discontents. https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/caste-isabel-wilkerson/1136665304?ean=9780593230251

can yall do an episode on trans vs cis athletes in competition? and maybe invite in Pep for her perspective?

Jewell Singletary

why is all of bobs male friend whites? girl its black history month

Everyone vote for sibling rivalry for a queerty award for best podcast. They really deserve it

Joshua Hunt

Because it wasn’t addressed by the end of the episode: If you are offered another gig in Israel, you have the autonomy to choose to culturally boycott the state of Israel’s violence on Palestinians by not performing there. That’s it. You don’t need to be 100% informed to say no and stand with oppressed people.

Hi Brett! I'm a huge concert/live show fan and cant wait to see my favs perform again. In 2017 Solange headlined Pitchfork Fest in Chicago. It was a predominately white crowd, but the crowd made way for myself and 3 other Black women to be at the front of the stage for Solange's show. There was even a little extra space around us to dance. + breathe. I've been to about 100 shows and that's the 1st and only time that happened. Idk what a live show experience will be like post panini but physically creating space for Black fans to be in the front would be appreciated. 🙌🏾

Jewell Singletary

Bob, definitions are DESCRIPTIVE not PRESCRIPTIVE.

JL

Just listened to this episode and as a biologist I'm very concerned by some of the mistakes regarding biology/social race. Love y'all, but I hope the audience can take this fun conversation for what it was, a conversation of non-experts googling around and can take the time to dig into how race was constructed and the history of it. I suggest listening to NPR Code switch and their episode on transracialism. I hope in the future y'all could get some experts on some of your more beefy topics cause your audience will eat up anything you say and take it as gospel.

R. Shawn Abrahams

As one of those fans who is in the audience when we can be and always in the lives and supporting all the girls on and off the show it is done cause we love the community and need the therapy tbh. It helps to give people love bc if not you’d just perform to sassy gays/white girls and drunk people who don’t care/won’t remember. Drag even to the monsters of Dragula who look rough and tough to the “pretty” Instagram queens who just do makeup is very therapeutic and as much as it can have ramifications for some people it is special for most people. And I will say everyone and their mother wants to start drag but some people they do it (intentionally and non intentionally) because they are a star. I felt like the fans and the new age of drag artists/“legacy queens” got grouped into one when you talked about the crazy fans. I am curious if eager fans who want to support y’all bother you sometimes and what people could do to better respect your boundaries. Y’all could do an episode on y’all’s fans (not fanbase). Love you both y’all are excellent. I met you twice Bob and you and Peppermint said I needed to put a word limit on questions and said I looked like Shuga in drag 😂

Also, coming back in with another comment. The discussion of DOBAS (descendants of black American slaves) mourning their violently destroyed cultural heritage is so universal. But I want to remind everyone that literally all of American culture is black culture. The only music genres we birthed, blues, soul, and rock, come from block people. Our only (good) cuisine , soul food, comes from black people. The only non-colonizer languages , aave (which is arguable a creole) , and the creoles of Louisiana , come from black people.

Elle Lett (madblqscientist)

great discussion. i have so many feelings about it being a mixed from two different ethnicities. I do think you were all confusing race and culture quite a bit. still great conversation, keep talking.

I had NO IDEA that becoming a patreon member would mean id have access to ALL THIS CONTENT #living

So glad you guys talked about Maddox, R.I.P. What’s the tea reviews with him and Logan hardcore are how I found drag race. My heart ❤️

Cesar Munoz

Why did bob freeze like that !?

Thoughts from a social scientist: I’m a social epidemiologist which means I study how social structures drive health. Anyway, firstly, Merriam Webster shouldn’t be the only place you look for definitions. The dictionary itself is the output of a white supremacist power structure. Secondly, it’s important to differentiate 1) how you navigate the world (which is largely composed of how you are perceived), from 2) how you identify, and 3) your ancestry. Your racial identity is composed of all three. Navigating the world is related to the result of generations of oppression or benefit that your racial identity and that of your ancestors has conferred to you through accumulation of wealth and privilege, plus how you look and the biases and challenges that come with that in contemporary society. How you identify is just that, what you say your race is. And lastly your ancestry (Are your parents black? ) I would argue that transracial can really only come into play with how you choose to identify and that someone cannot authentically adopt the other two components such that being truly transracial, in the complexity and nuance and fullness of a racial identity, is not possible. Simple test case, me, Bob and Monét are dark ass niggas. We can say we are white all day, but we will still navigate the world subject to the oppression that niggas receive.

Elle Lett (madblqscientist)

Okay so I haven't entirely finished yet but thought I'd throw in a perspective that I don't think other people have brought up specifically; I have a degree in anthropology so I've had lots of time to discuss things like this and read about it and whatnot. As lots of folks pointed out, being transgender is not comparable to this idea of transracialism and this is true, but there's still this confusing idea about race and gender both being social constructs. This is true, but there is a HUGE difference between the kinds of social constructs that they are. Gender is something that more or less exists in some form in all human cultures, its something that is culturally and personally specific to ones own experience. Race isn't like that- race was invented and constructed (based on and linked to stereotypical physical traits, which is why our definition specifically discusses appearance) in order to subject certain people; the world system that we still live in is entirely constructed of power relationships based on this invented idea of race and that's what shapes our understanding of what race is. You cannot change your race because race is a structure that you have been put in or has been put upon your ancestors historically. The racial power relationships we have today are the exact same that existed in the past, they're just in different forms and shapes now, and that's what creates your experience of what race is. Because Race is about your personal experience within those power relationships, you can't suddenly decide to change it- ESPECIALLY if you're of the race that invented race and racism in the first place. There are way better anthropologists than I am out there that would have better sources to back these ideas up but to my understanding, that is how it works. So many great discussions in the comments; makes me wish this was a Stereo episode! I'm sure lots of callers would have great perspectives!

Gage Huey

"I think she's (Rachel Dolezal) a martyr for what's to come." Tsk tsk tsk read a history book - it's already here. Colonialism is NOT NEW.

I'm with Monet. I can't see how transracial and transgender are different, based on how people identify.

jessica bw

Really cool discussion. I do wish y'all researched these topics more, but it was entertaining and thought-provoking. Also did anyone notice close to the end, Bob's audio and video was choppy/cut out for a bit? Idk if it was just on my end.

Alejandro

Am I the only one who had chunks of the conversation just skip towards the end

I haven't finished the whole thing but I have to say, some of the arguments people use against transracial identity almost echo the same ones people use against transgender identity. And for that, along with my beliefs that people can identify how they want, makes me accept a transracial identity. Also, some people who are adopted feel this way, I have heard. I need to finish listening but I wanted to get that out lol. I feel bad for joking about Rachel dolezal.

jessica bw

girl my jaw dropped too when bob said he had a beeper lol

Omg Maddox Maddison!!! “BiiiiiiiiiIIIIIIITCH!” ☝🏻 I remember her. One of the OG youtube/social media queens I remember.

Brianna L

One of my thoughts on this convo was that you see children express issues with their gender identity but I haven’t personally heard anyone express trans racial identity as a child. And that’s an important distinguishing factor in my mind as something that is innate ? Idk just some thoughts

You're talking like race, social, and gender studies don't exist 💀 also they can have a convo but they actively said they aren't informed in any of this. the comments are trying to HELP them learn from other opinions and facts.

Ren

Okaay not Bob's video being laggy and crunchy😂😂😂😂 but thought I'd give my 2 cents on what was said: 1. I can't speak for other countries/companies but when I've applied to schools, universities and jobs in the UK there was always an "African/Carribbean" as an ethnicity 2. The thing is you can be African but not have African culture. I was born in East Africa, moved to the UK when I was 6 and I go back home every 2 years so I feel like I am a part of African culture. I have African friends but they have never been to Africa. So I think there is a difference. 3. I, along with all Africans I know don't hate black Americans. If anything we feel sad that they have to search for their African ancestry whereas we are born and already know it DISCLAIMER I ain't no sociologist and feel free to correct me or have a discussion on anything I said. Love the topics y'all bring🖤

Stacey

Also IRT asian and who is defined as asian, it's mostly due to ignorance from people who aren't asian deciding east asian people are the only asian. Southeast asians like viet, thai, laotian etc are all asian, filipinos are asian, Indians are south asian, certain Russians are asian (there are slavic White Russians, and indigenous asians, and west asians who all are born in that huge area) it's like saying all chinese people are han chinese when there are a ton of types of chinese people in the same way there's different types of african people or indian people! Also none of this out of hate, I love seeing people talk about shit no one wants to talk about, but I have studies in this and experience around a lotta this. 🙌🏼

Ren

Note on Bobs comment that Black people have never been transracial: So we must remember historically it’s been a thing. Light-skinned, white passing Black people often identified as white when they became free in order to secure rights that only white people had, let alone for safety and security. Honestly it’s more common than we think, even up and through the civil rights movement.

Very interesting convo x

Also the woke brigade, can y’all let people have a conversation and learn something, instead of coming for everyone who doesn’t have a PhD in woke studies...please 🙄🙄🙄

I posted this on the YouTube (as Doña Ratona) but thought it worth posting here too: I would say Caribbean history isn't without its slave history, along with the same denial of African culture. Same in Brazil, Colombia and Peru. And whilst Africa wasn't having slaves in the same sense, it was colonised. Check out Franz Fanons Black Skin White Masks the psychological and cultural impacts of Colonialism. Free, but not free minds. Plus Latinx's acceptance of its own history and present is a whole other thing. Funny how La Rebellion is one of the most beloved salsa songs from Colombia, the starting lyrics are "in the 16 hundreds, when tyranny ruled"... And goes on to be a national anthem of our history, pain and domestic violence. Blavin reapproriates one of the most Africanand indegenous Colombian songs there ever was and starts the lyrics with "we don't see colour,... Mmm what's English blonde up to". Ridiculous 🙄

RefriedBeansUK

I agree with so much of what is being said in the comments. Transracialism as a concept is steeped in White Privilege and then perceptions of cultures assigned and attached to non-White races - usually by a romanticised gaze. If we simply followed the quoted definitions of racism, us Black folks and the topic of Systemic Racism would be listened to even less - and we don't need or want that. Also, it felt dangerous to use being Transgender as the closest comparison - especially later in the episode, when they were using the dictionary definitions of race (which are largely old and defined by White folks). Without intending to, it could imply and/or invalidate someone's transness (If that's a word?) based on "passing privilege". Hopefully, that last part makes sense.

Ruesharn

Lol at bob and Kizha looking great but Monet “great lips” 😂☠️

jguy

I'm really glad Jacob talked about the issue with Birthright! I highly recommend reading more about the #ReturntheBirthright campaign that many Jews (including myself) participate in to call out how problematic the program is! It's a tool by the Israeli government to bring more folks to Israel to further colonize and legitimize the oppression of Palestinians. While American Jews are given a free trip to Israel, Palestinians can't even move freely from the West Bank or Gaza into Israel and vice versa without often being stopped and harassed. https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/returnthebirthright/ Also, I highly recommend reading more about the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel! It was started as a way for academics and artists to boycott institutions that are complicit in the oppression of Palestinians. I agree with Bob that we can't always boycott every country that has problematic politics, but we can do what we can to support existing campaigns to boycott Israeli institutions in solidarity with Palestinians! The academic/cultural boycott strategy was also used in the 1980s to boycott South African apartheid and it was effective. And there are lots of artists who refused to perform in the U.S. when Trump was president which was obviously understandable! Here's a link to the academic/cultural boycott page if you're interested! https://bdsmovement.net/pacbi Love y'all and always happy to provide more resources on Israel/Palestine and Zionism <3 - an anti-zionist jew

I just wanted to say thank you so much for this episode. Like I think some things are worth restating

RefriedBeansUK

As a non-white trans person, transracialism is a hard line I do not allow or mess with. You cannot become a race when you've never experienced the life/culture growing up as that race. I've seen the argument for transness allows for transracialism (which isn't the original definition anyways, it was originally used to talk about adopted people who enter families of a different race) but transness is an inherent thing. it's not an adopted identity it literally is who we are. We are that gender we say we are, we just happen to be assigned as another. I've seen white people try to insist they are mixed recently, especially as asian because I guess visually looking asian is more popular now what with kpop and shit. They do makeup, taping, hair dye, style themselves as asian, but they can remove all of that once they stop taking their selfies and walk out the door as a full white person and reap that benefit.

Ren

I feel like I’m reading the comments and can give my honest opinion without even watching the episode 😂😂 From a strictly philosophical point, transracialism must be a thing, and if anything a construct that could be physically realized if it made sense in this reality. The construct of transracialism and transgendrism, including other forms of Body dysphoria, like amputees-by-choice, are extremely similar. So, objectively, there are alike. Subjectively, they are extremely dissimilar. Metaphor: I could stick a fork in a piece of meat. Transracialism would be like sticking a fork into a human body. Transgenderism would be like sticking a fork into a piece of meat. There’s precedence when it comes to Transgenderism, and a positive one. However there is extremely negative precedence for Transracialism, e.g. Mexican/First Nation natives who were allowed to naturalize as white citizens instead of black citizens under the law after the Mexican territories were annexed, and of course, our lovely Rachel D. example. The reasons why transracialism is so distasteful is obvious, you can assume skin color, but you don’t assume the history behind it. I think there is room for Transculturalism as one post already mentioned, it sort of happens already.

Omg this one brings back so much memories of starting drag and being around Kizha, Monét, Bob, Honey, at that time. I wonder if I can post the photos from then

I've seen people try to use the comparison of transgender and transracial but I think there are a lot of reasons why the two don't equate. I personally don't think transracialism is valid in the way that being transgender is because race/ethnicity is something that people inherit from their parents whereas gender is not. A person is black or African American because that is what their parents (And generations before them) are. The same cannot be said for gender where it is something that is passed through the bloodline. I think this makes gender more accessible/freeing to change. Also, I understand the sentiment of transgender people saying they feel like a different gender because there are genetic differences between gender but the same can't be said for race

Another point: if white people can be transracial and say they’re black will black people who say they’re white benefit from white privilege?

Can y’all talk about this topic in a part 2 with the stereo app? This is a good conversation to have and the inner sociology major in me is wanting to jump in so badly lol

Is Zack Bobs boyfriend? I’m trippin

If anyone has the link to the tiktok posts Bob was talking about around 55:40 can u plz comment it under my comment? xx :))

Allie

so what we're not gonna do is validate trans racialism ... gender and race are two completely different phenomenons and the equation of the two harms the little respect that transness holds and gives validity to the buffoonery that is called trans racialism . and we shouldn't address transness as 'if' as in 'if this exists, so can this', it's ripping the validation of transness right from under it

Nobody:... Bob’s audio and video: *struggle* Me: ROBERTA! I WAS ROOTING FOR YOU!

Majority of (Afro) Dominicans denying they’re black by saying they are Latinx is this 🤣 Latinidad is not a singular race

Amber J

omg bobs lag at the end lmfao, but this was such a powerful and inspiring episode of many themes i never even understood it ty for this

Shaun Arthur

*sigh* I love y’all but this conversation just is not it. If being transracial was a thing then everyone mentioned at the end of the protest episode would’ve been able to magically tap into white privilege and remain alive. This just isn’t a thing, and saying transracial is a thing by no means takes away from being transgender which is totally a thing.

I don't think you can really compare transracial and transgender and I think most of the time people who do compare the two, only do it as a means to undermine transgender people's experience

Georgia

I'm reading that book now and it's amazing!

Shelby

Love Kizha! I wanted to get ya'll opinion on something. I understand your point on how seeing Black audience members is very validating. As a white fan, I have always thought attending shows and supporting online a way for me to fight against an anti-black fandom. Based on your dialogue, how can white fans remain supportive without over-crowding the space?

Well if they're speaking English, it's just "Latin", that's the English word for Latino. Every time people would say "Latino" to me, I was like "why are you using a Spanish word when you don't speak Spanish?". But Latinx has caught on with younger Latin people.

R

Pre-Rachel Dolezal I only heard the term "transracial" associated with adopted children, particularly kids of color who are raised by white families. Kat Blaque did an interview around this with an adoptee who was raised by white parents, it's worth a listen!!

Eri

Monet's Bett story tho xD. Honestly, if Rachel was helping the cause I think it would be fine to leave her be.

Great episode. Love Keisha and used to see her at drag race showings in barracuda all the time

jguy

I would encourage you guys to stop using 'Latinx' and just use Latino because Latinx is an Americanized take on Spanish and it is not possible to even say in Spanish. 'Latino' is a gender-neutral term! The 'o' ending in Spanish refers to ~all~ genders and/or men, so when you use 'Latina' you are ~only~ referring to women. Most enby Latinos I know use 'o/a' endings or a newer, 'e' ending! When you refer to all people regardless of gender from Latin America, use Latino! I love you guys so much so I also want to say that comparing race to gender delegitimizes both experiences. They can be intersections of each other (watch Kimberlé Crenshaw's 'intersectionality' definition TedTalk), but are not parallel experiences. This is why I hate when white women think they have comparable oppression to people of color because of their gender, when in reality 54% of white women in America voted for Trump.... People will choose race over gender and sexuality every time (think: Susan B. Anthony was a known racist and white gay bars in Manhattan pre-1995). I love that you are bringing these conversations to your Patreon, especially after your MAJORRR sub boost! Please keep talking about race on the pod, but maybe a little more research next time 💕💕💕

Sofia

I think you need to be specific when speaking on Africa, it is a continent and we aren't all raised the same. My family is from Cote D'Ivoire and we have never been raised to stay away from black Americans nor do we speak the dialect you are referring to. Everyone has bad experiences with different cultures but it's important not to generalize (especially when speaking about such a huge continent like Africa). I'm sorry you had to experience that xenophobia though.

lindsey gueye

Such a good episode!!!

Side note: I got to be part of the interview that Rachel did for her documentary. My class got to be part of the audience (we got extra credit if we went) and barely anyone got their questions answered from her. The vibe was awkward af. Side note, the person interviewing her was my professor, and is really chill. They made a statement about identifying as a white girl as a joke according to what he told us (the class). Just as a note. TL;DR she came to my campus and NO ONE was feeling her at all.

I think it would be an interesting topic for a podcast to talk about asian racism, because I think people don't talk about it a lot and with COVID-19, it's very current.

comparing trangenderism to transracialism is a terrible take, it's just wypipo pretending to be poc... gender is not a biological trait, it is just a social construct, unlike race or sex, which are both. privilege is an important topic in this context as well. being transracial just gives wypipo the accessibility to things like social safety nets, and scholarships. for example, being born black is something that a black person will carry throughout their lives, even if they identify as white. the societal perception of a black person is not something that will change. so this whole argument for transracialism waters down to white people just trying to get the best of both worlds ig.

bob's wifi was really acting up at the end w that crunchy ass zoom footage lmaoooo

thank you so much for writing this, you hit the nail on the head. I hope Bob and Monet read this because race and gender are not comparable at all and comparing transgender people to 'transracial' people is extremely invalidating and harmful

Sofia

Rachel was the first but there have been like 3 or 4 more in the last year. My problem is they always do this and then want to rule over black people and latinas. And overstep with their teachings. How dare u teach us how to have self esteem and deal with racism when you've never experienced it. They want to be at the forefront of black issues and can only speak based om imagination since they also didn't grow up around black people. Be blaxk in ur neighborhoos if u have to. But stay away from us and stop speaking FOR us.

Emmanuella Osei

I just want to clarify something about the definition of race that Bob read. It said people of the same ancestry who share the same physical features. So no, according to the definition Rachel is not black because she does not share the same ancestors as black people.

Sedrik

did you two gain almost 2000 patrons in a little over a week? thats INSANE

Y’all know what Eurasia is...? This was messy

Emma Palace

Charlize theron considers herself South African and speaks Afrikaans

black american here. our parents telling us that africans despise us, is not completely baseless. continental africans are notorious for looking down upon us. they are told when they come to america, not to associate with black americans (while also coming here and benefiting from certain things black americans have fought for), and they refer to us as “akata”— a derogatory term meaning: wild cat or wild dog. these are things my mother, friends, and even myself have experienced. i’m not turning this into a war between the two, but i did feel the need to say that. also bob, our ethnicity is african american, black american, or ADOS. And Monet, we DO have culture. Caribbean’s love telling us that crap.

Rinni

This is not a thing. Its cultural appropriation with a band aid. Simple. Y’all could’ve saved this episode. ✌🏽 -Signed a “cis” black man.

soCreigh

Monet's Bette Midler story had me screaming

Adrienne Arnold

Also IDK if it touches on Transracialism specifically but the book the Vanishing Half is great fiction novel about black twins where one essentially lives as a white woman. I ate that book up.

Great episode, as always. But gurl, I can't concentrate because Bob's crunchy internet connection is making some of the funniest fucking freeze-frames of Bob I've ever seen.

Joe F.

Bette Midler said “Meet me by the tater tots” 🤣🤣🤣 This episode was so great.

At 27:49, Bob and Monet's dual "NO" faces after Kizha's Macaulay Culkin joke, true siblings 🤣🤣🤣

Kelly Smith

Passing is a phenomenon that occurs in the black culture. Mainly, if I recall, in the south and places like Louisiana. It’s people born of mixed race who are white passing in complexion. So I can see how that can be early vestiges of black people participating in transracialism. However, I don’t really think the term has weight because as an evidently black male, I can’t just be like...I’m white y’all. And no make up can change that, realistically. Bleaching the skin would be the only way, however I would still not be able to escape the discrimination of my born race and never fully be white.

Jonathan Hairston

Caribbean is a nationality though, not an ethnicity

lindsey gueye

You both look stunning. I love you both SO MUCH! These kind of conversations (as well as Bob's talks with Peppermint on intersectionality, anti-black racism, etc.) are some of my favourite conversations that ya'll have. I'm not black or white (I'm yellow lol) but it's always great for me to listen to what the black community and my black friends have to say so that I can continually try to be a better ally.

anthony w.

Not bob saying his connection ain’t crunchy but continuing to lag for 20 minutes

Caeden Carlisle

can't wait for Monet to read Bob's crunchy android recording lmfaooo

Spencer Gerard

Race is definitely a social construct BUT, if transracialism only applies to those of privilege, it does not exist. Also being 'black' is literally just a skin tone so therefore how can you identify with that if you don't share that same skin tone? There are multiple cultures and personalities in the black community, we are not a monolith so an individual can align with a certain culture/ personality type but you can't 'feel' like a phenotype/ ethnicity, that doesn't make literal sense.

lindsey gueye

I don't believe transracialism is actually a thing, and I don't think there is currently enough research or historical evidence to back it up. I don't think it was anyone's intention, but I think it is unfair and harmful to compare transracial people to transgender people. In my experience, transracialism is usually brought up in conversations as a means to invalidate the lives and experiences of trans people.

IJS

Transracialism is just something white people made up to cosplay as people of color and comparing it to being a transperson is dangerous and transphobic. When the Rachel Dolezal story first came out and people were making the comparison many Black transwomen such as Kat Blaque, Raquel Willis, and Janet Mock explained why that was not okay. Janet tweeted at the time: "Stop comparing Dolezal's performance of black womanhood to my and my trans sisters' lives. It only further erases/delegitimizes our existence". Kat Blaque had a really good YouTube video about it where she addressed the argument people make that both race and gender are social constructs: "A popular defense of Rachel Dolezal is that, race is a social construct, in the same way that gender is a social construct. So why is her story any different from Caitlyn’s? Race and gender are absolutely social constructs. The difference is that, gender is not a biological trait passed from parent to child, whereas race is. Evolution was regional, and there’s a reason why my skin is dark, and my ancestors come from the hot regions of Africa. Darker skin means more melanin. More melanin means more sun protection. That was necessary for groups of people, who historically are from areas where the sun is the hottest. That is an evolutionary trait, passed from parent to child. Gender, of course, is not passed from parent to child. Gender is a social construct, that usually pertains to, and differentiates between, masculinity and femininity. Gender does not hold the same biological basis that race does. Say that race is a social construct, and therefore, it’s okay for her to be transracial, is just kind of silly. A traffic light is a social construct, but you’re going to be in quite the pickle if you decide to run a red light into oncoming traffic." Kat further goes on to talk about one of the key elements of why it is erroneous to make this comparison, people like Rachel Dolezal who pretend to be Black are lying about their race for benefit and comparing that to being trans implies that trans people are lying/being deceptive, which is a dangerous stereotype that has been used to murder trans people. Rachel Dolezal pretended to be Black, lied about it several times, and even falsely reported hate crimes, all while using her made up Blackness to take opportunities from Black people. That is not comparable to the lived experience of trans people. Trans people aren't lying about who they are and they aren't taking opportunities from people, they're usually losing them. If Rachel Dolezal was arrested under the assumption that she was Black (at a traffic stop, protest, etc.) , she would almost certainly be released as soon as it was discovered that she was white. If a transwoman, particularly a Black transwoman was arrested for walking while trans (which is still a thing that happens), they would face further violence if it was discovered that they were trans. The same is true if a Black person was disguised as a white person but then discovered to be Black, they would be subjected to violence. There's a history of this happening when people who were passing during Jim Crow were discovered to be Black. And it is important to mention that those people were passing as a form of safety and security, the same is not true for white people who pretend to be other races. That's just them being white and thinking that they should have access to the cultures and opportunities of the people who they have historically oppressed. That is peak white supremacy. Also speaking of white supremacy, I want to touch back on something Bob said a few weeks ago about "straight supremacy" not being real, that's also wrong, homophobia and transphobia are also tied into white supremacy. White supremacy functions to uphold white cis-hetero male dominance. I'd also caution you against using dictionary definitions to define race related issues because those topics are often way more in-depth and nuanced than what a line in the dictionary says. The dictionary definitions of "race" and "racism" are extremely far removed from how those things systemically function in society. An imperfect comparison is that as drag queens if you all went to a show and saw a white queen dressed in Blackface, you'd recognize that as racist. The same would not be said for male-identified queens performing as women or female-identified queens performing as men. Again, it's not a perfect comparison because drag is not the same as being trans but it does combat the concept of gender. Blackface on the other hand does not combat the concept of race, it reinforces the ways in which racism is harmful. That is what Rachel Dolezal was doing. That is what all white people who pretend to be "transracial" are doing, they are weaponizing their whiteness to harm people of color. You all start off acknowledging that you're not sociologists but then you fail to have the discussion in a way that incorporates any research or expertise. I can't say if you researched the topic at all before recording but it doesn't seem like you did. No one has to know everything but it was irresponsible of the three of you to have the conversation from a place that seems to have been rooted in your opinions and your misunderstandings of the topic. You mentioned that you think it was the first time someone with such a large platform was having the discussion (it's not, Janet Mock has had the discussion on large platforms such as BET) but if you're going to use your platform to have the discussion, you have a responsibility to research it and/or have someone who really knows the subject on to talk about it, such as a Black transwoman. This site has a lot of really good pieces written on why being "transracial" isn't a thing and why comparing it to transgender people is inappropriate: https://theoffingmag.com/offsite/transracial-essential-reading-on-rachel-dolezal-vs-caitlyn-jenner-and-race-gender-adoptee-identities/ And here is the link to the Kat Blaque video I mentioned earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZEsCWWskbY Also, the Middle East isn't completely in Asia. It's in Northern Africa and Southern Europe as well.

This is maybe your best episode ever!!! such a good thought provoking conversation and laughs along the way. Kizah was amazing and soooo beautiful please have her back. becoming a patreon was the best decision EVERRRRRRRRRRRRR

Wow, that was some powerful stuff. Thanks for bringing it up. Bob, there's an article in the NYT today: Police Chief and Officer Ousted After Racist Remarks Caught on Body Camera (Hamilton, Georgia) Not just "racist remarks." Defending slavery: "They furnished them a house to live in, they furnished them clothes to put on their back, they furnished them food to put on their table, and all they had to do” was work.” The conversation was recorded outside of the police department as the two were preparing to patrol a Black Lives Matter rally.

I loved this so much!

I’m Ghanaian, and I never knew about the struggle some Black Americans have with their heritage this has been very eye opening for me

technically race is a social construct. Ethnicity is your genetic makeup, race doesn't actually biologically exist.

lindsey gueye

Blackness is a social construct and a culture, it is about how we have been divested from in the US. And Rachel Dolezal is starting from a white place, she has not nor have her ancestors been stolen, enslaved, re-created a culture that was stolen from us, jim crowed, redlined, and segreated for centuries Mama!!!!! to come in at the bottom of the 8th inning talking about I'm Black because I can braid, aint it. There is so much beauty to our culture and their is so much wealth that we generated for this country that we have never been able to enjoy because our labor was stolen. Even being an advocate and an ally, does not entitle a person to Black culture, we are born into this. Rachel Dolezal is Black for attention and she is getting it.

I don’t think transracialism is a thing because not all people can experience it. A black person cannot look white no matter how hard they tried, nor will they experience white privilege. Meanwhile rachel was able to cosmetically make herself look more racially ambiguous and received accolades, jobs, and money because of it. Race is a social construct but we are still defined by those constructs presently. Sex and gender though do have a level of biology to it even though gender is a social construct as well. People born with different chromosomes outside of the most common XX and XY can experience gender and body dysphoria that can sometimes be reduced with hormones or surgery. But white people who claim to be black just want to invade black spaces that were created because we weren’t allowed in theirs.

As a Caribbean person, I’m telling you that it’s not an ethnicity. You have white, Black, Hispanic, Native & Asian Caribbean people. Some Caribbean countries speak English, some speak Spanish, some speak Dutch, some speak French and some speak Creole. Caribbean is a nationality and a culture but not an ethnicity

SignedMCS

Yesss Pete. Come through mama! Also, lets get it straight. Dolezal went to Howard and sued the University for racial discrimination as a White woman. Moreover, she started all of this "being" Black because she wanted to get custody of her parents' adopted child who is Black. She made up all of this to get attention. And I'm not trying to hate on Spokane, but they elected her as President? or was no one running. She is a long running scam artist who has found a grift in Blackness. Her students said that she was combative and constantly challenging people's Blackness, the nerve. And she was an adjunct, which if you have an MA you can be hired and be in a classroom in 1 week flat. And she was sending Herself the hate mail to prove her point about being Black. The mail had no postmarks. She did it to build her case around the adopted child. Dolezal is mentally unwell. What is most galling is that she used our community's openness to non-phenotypical blackness to get attention. Black women are dying in the street , being harassed everyday, and making less money than most everyone, except Latina and Native women. And this white woman looking for attention, a man, and money gets it and a Netflix doc and a book deal for not being a Black woman and wearing dookie Braids. I can walk a few blocks from my house and find so many Black women with braids that have not had half the chance this woman has had. And Black people have been divested from for centuries in this country. Yall need to do 3 Black women appreciation episodes to make up for this one. Love y'all but until Black Lives Matter in this country, we don't need to give her or her ilk anymore oxygen. And there have been 3 other white ladies doing this, mainly in academia.

And what exactly is the ‘black culture’?

SignedMCS

If people claim to be a race to gain access to benefits set aside for a specific race, they're committing a crime; racial identity theft. And anyone committing identity theft needs to be prosecuted-losing a job, or a scholarship is a slap on the hand, not a punishment. If you play you gotta pay.

Dr. Pamela Chollet

exactly! and when people say “not everything is about race” like that’s must but nice for someone to have the privilege of thinking that race doesn’t play a major role in all of our everyday lives from how we are treated to how we a perceived from others, to how we connect with other people. If you think race doesn’t play a major role in almost every single thing we do then you’re lying to yourself or just ignorant to what poc go through.

Sibling Gabe

Idk transracialism should be called transculturalism @ this point bc that's really what it is. (white) ppl "identify" with our culture (specifically speaking about blackness) but not our race. think about black ppl who are really into k-pop or anime. Do they call themselves Asians or say that they're Korean or Japanese? In the words of divina de campo… I don’t think. but they do embrace those cultures by decorating their rooms inspired by the cultures, and may do their hair and makeup to match asian trends but they’re not claiming to be a different race. at least iv never seen a black person (who was born in America to parents who are born in America) claim to be asian.

Monique Heart also has vitiligo!

_gzuku

Y’all need Kizha on the Pod more often to talk y’all off the ledge of unresearched conjecture

Exactly. I don't think people "choose" race. How we need to think about "race" is the act of "racialization." This is definitely whiteness.

There is no reason to be a "biologist" to speak about race. Race is a social construction. This means that race does not exist in "biology." It only "exists" in society.

When Kizha told Bob & Monet abt Hell’s Kitchen my screen looked like 😲👩🏾‍🦱😲

Check out Al Jazeera English and Democracy Now! for some really worthwhile reporting on the Israel-Palestine issue. Also the work of Noam Chomsky, Angela Davis, Linda Sarsour, & Norman Finkelstein on the matter are really fabulous. OO and Jewish Voice for Peace, If Not Now, Woke Scientist, and Jews Against Fascism. IMO the way race and gender are handled in society have as many intersections as they have unique expressions so to compare trans people, who have existed throughout society in various different ways for centuries, with transracialism is a little off but that's just me.

On a serious note, this episode was amazing. I'm a white Canadian with Native great grandparents. I know my ancestry being mixed is due to colonialism and I definitely am perceived as white , I look white, I benefit from white privelage. Now I did grow up around Native relatives and friends and qhat Bob is talking about with Black slaves not being allowed to participate in their culture reminds me of my Native relatives. They don't speak their own language, practice their own religions, nothing. But there has been more of a movement in their communities in the past 10 years or so to start bringing the culture back. Not sure where I'm going with this, other than saying thank you for this episode. It was very informative and really made me think about my whiteness.

Kayla Haynes

Also anyone who is phenotypically black has about a 0% chance of ever convincing anyone that they are white.

🤨🤨🤨... race is not comparable to gender. Race is decided by phenotype, not by DNA. If you are half black but you look totally white... you move thru the world as a white person and don’t live the black experience. Comparing transracialism to transgenderism is a really bad argument that invalidates trans people.

Bob's crunchy ass feed was a mix of acid trip and Thanos' snap.

Morticia Baddams

also bob to answer your question i would say your ethnicity is african american, like a lot of what i’ve learned from school and friends is that like the words to describe race and ethnicity are often used interchangeably by accident or whatever idk but like someone can identify as black racially in america but not all black people in america are african american, some identify as black american, caribbean american, or first generation african- american, etc which i don’t think is necessarily ethnicities, which makes it confusing, especially in terms of people who recently migrate to the us from africa vs people who were forcefully brought here. but from what i understand african american refers to the people who were brought and born in the united states and have been identified as black historically and through legislation etc and like because of like some of the unfortunate parts of enslavement many african americans have european ancestry to some degree which is why there’s such a difference is complexion amongst african american people, and like i know it sounds like a racial category but i’ve been told by other black peoples who identify as african american that for all intents and purposes is an ethnicity bc it’s referring to a specific group of people with shared cultural linguistic physical and historical similarities. it’s really confusing and i don’t know if i’m explaining it the best but thats how i’d answer pls take it with a grain of salt

benjamin surrette

Omg Kizha’s makeup is GORG Bob looks amazing. I love the lip Monet is everything. I love all of her looks. 🥰🥰🥰

I really hate when ppl say black ppl talk about race too much. I always talk about race no matter who I'm with my black friends or my white friends and those in between. I live in America and race is in every thing I do and every decision I make. I can't even apply for a job without having to include my race. As a black women I have to think about being black when I buy things, when I walk down the street, when I'm hanging out with my friends, even when I'm just sitting in my home. EVERYTHING in America is about race so stop telling black ppl to stop talking about it

Neshee King

Society is treating you based on what your look like, the texture of your hair, your body type etc... so while it is a construct it still matters because it’s affecting every single part of a persons life down to even the smallest details.

Monet looks so amazing. I am GAGGED

I was really good friends with Maddox Madison, it was crazy to hear y’all talk about him. What a great queen. 💜💜

Jim

Great discussion, love y’all

Camil Huberdeau

Also, does anyone else remember Dorothea from the original Tales of The City? They aligned her transracial story with Anna's transgendered story. However, Dorothea was looked down upon for what she had done because if was for monetary gain, of course. This conversation has been happening for many years.

i think monet was right in saying caribbean is an ethnicity bc a majority of caribbean countries share cultural linguistic and racial similarities like even the country guyana for example is considered a caribbean country even though it’s on the south american continent bc literally in every sense they’re culturally caribbean and they belong to i think like a larger caribbean union, like i think monets looking at careibean more as hispanic or latino rather than african bc a lot of african countries share maybe physical features but are very different culturally depending on which part of the continent or which country you’re in specifically but also i’m not caribbean so idk i just have grown up with a lot of ppl who identify as caribbean and from the things i read and hear thats what i’ve gathered

benjamin surrette

Bob. I can't defend your connectivity today. Lmao

Listo

we're gonna hear about Bob's crunchy crunch audio and video in this episode for the next 3 podcasts

Shane McConnell

When it comes to the discussion on Ethnicity VS Race it is important to have somethings in mind as well. As Bob said Race and Ethnicity can VERY easily be confused. Ethnicity has to do way more with practices and culture while Race is based on your physical traits and how you are perceived. For example, I am black (my Race), but I am a Black-Portuguese (my ethnicity). So theoretically ethnicity is often more relevant in terms of your identity because it is based on your experience. So, Bob is a black person, who has an African American Experience, this is also why some people have problems with black people who are not African American saying the n-word.

Okay ya'll, don't come for me. I have a question for the group. If someone is changing their physical appearance both medically and cosmetically to appear as the race they identify as , is that not similar to someone that is transitioning from their assigned gender?

I think it is important to read some theory on race to further understand the idea of it, while dictionaries provide definitions, our understanding and how we use concepts are dependent on many other factors. While Bob has some good ideas on making concepts static by sticking to definitions, there are essentially contested concepts, which ‘inevitably involve endless disputes about their proper uses on the part of their users’. So there is no way we can stick to ONE single definition when there’s obviously several discussions to it, e.g. race, racism. This does not mean that race can be whatever we want it to be, but that there is different ways it can be approached (I recommend reading Gallie’s theory on essentially contested concepts). It’s also problematic to go with definitions made up hundreds of years ago by old white men and there’s sometimes a big importance to re define certain terms.

im glad this is unlocked too I need to share this conversation with so many people. thank you so much for this, so many issues on this one episode- latinx (did you know latinx as a term is starting to get cancelled?) perception and reality vis a vis race, Jacob talking about Palestinian oppression. I am 100% here for it. Kizha is an absoloute delight. Really liked this episode, and Im gonna say something controversial, but I do think its a better use of time than arguing for the sake of it. However, each episode brings me something special so Im not dissing anything. Anyways, thanks again to all for this.

RefriedBeansUK

Not Monet being a dreamer you better work mom

for the record as someone who has worked for netflix.... they still mail DVDs. they have a separate website and separate subscription for solely DVDs

Not Monet thinking Dreamers were Gen Z...............................................................

Honestly so true, I’m half Zimbabwean half Spanish and I’m very light skin to the point where most people just assume that I’m just Spanish. So much of who I am comes from the Zimbabwean side of my family yet because I don’t look mix raced or black enough I’m just perceived as Spanish and that I have a nice tan. My experience in life is a mixture of both parts of my heritage yet I to most only present as being from one of them still doesn’t mean I’m just Spanish.

just correction regarding the middle east : a couple of north African countries are part of the middle east so it's not just Asian countries ( that's why they're not called middle Asian people )

osman

Black people descended from enslaved Africans are typically called "African American." Other groups may also use this term, but when I studied anthropology and political science in college African American was used exclusively to describe people descended from enslaved Africans. African American is considered an ethnicity, and that is the "culture" that Bob and Khiza likely share. Being "African" or "North American" is not an ethnicity because those are continents and there is SO MUCH variety in terms of culture, language, history, society, etc. among the people in them that they literally can't be classified as a single ethnicity. Also, I have cousins who are half-Black and half-Italian, but they look nothing like either and instead look like Latinas. They identify as Black, speak Italian, but are mistaken by people of all races all the time to the point where people will casually try to speak to them in Spanish. I don't believe that just because their lived experience is being constantly mistaken as Latina automatically makes them Latinas. This is erasure. This would be like saying "If you're mistaken as straight despite being gay then your lived experience is being straight because that's how you're perceived by others."

Ciera

Monet's makeup here is so beautiful!

MJ actually wore hairpieces/wigs after the Pepsi incident that burned his hair/head. He had like a bald spot that couldn’t grow hair, so that’s really what contributed to the change.

Meet me at the tater tots

Kayla Haynes

Transracialism is not it! However, voting Sibling Rivalry for best podcast at the queerties is it! https://www.queerty.com/Queerties2021/vote-2107

It's very scary to me that at multiple points in this ep transgenderism was equated to transracialism. They are vastly different things that come from vastly different places. Transracialism is the result of privilege and this convo started to take quite a dangerous turn. I would've liked to see someone on the call who is actually educated on the topic to dispel misinformation and false equivalencies

I am Puerto Rican, but i was raised in Miami a very urban area, i don’t speak Spanish, i grew up watching all black tv shows, eating black foods and growing up in the black culture... even in drag i competed in “ black pageants” i don’t call myself black but this is very interesting conversation.

I LIVE for Monet and her facts,,,,I am CRYING!!!

Monet is SHAKING!

Listo

In the rachel dolezal documentary there was a black man that identified as a white female.

I’m scared to listen to this, especially after what y’all said in that episode of Race Chaser 👀

This^

I love that Kizha is officially in the rivalry cinematic universe

lilcczar89

monet i am literally living for you whenever you have a middle part you look so fucking cunt it’s fierce

benjamin surrette

nah i’ve been listening on apple a couple hours before this post 😅

aina

wow i’m looking forward to that because truly mainstream murrica is so brainwashed and uneducated about this. love to jacob ❤️❤️❤️

aina

ok so transracialism is only a thing so that white people can say they too are oppressed, they too should be hired for diversity purposes or featured in Latinx / Black centered magazines and other media, they too should receive affirmative action.

aina

I agree. Further reading why we shouldn't compare the two http://bostonreview.net/race-philosophy-religion-gender-sexuality/robin-dembroff-dee-payton-why-we-shouldnt-compare for anyone interested

Markus

Not take away from the rest of the podcast because AMAZING episode, but when the point about Israel came up and Jacob mentioned the oppression of Palestinians I literally teared up! As a Palestinian I’m usually used to not discuss politics because pink washing is real and strong within the LGBT community, and a lot of time I am faced with clashing opinions of people calling me a terrorist for supporting Palestine against the Israeli government. These small comments coming from people within the LGBT community makes my day when I hear them and I am so glad to hear it on your podcast! Thanks for making my day ❤️🙏🏻

Husam

Thank you for posting on Patreon before iTunes 😍🤩

Nah Nkechi was doing thee most

lilcczar89

There is no such thing as transracialism because there is no way to “identify as a race.” The black race is made up of so many different ethnicities, cultures, and looks— it literally makes no sense for anyone nonblack to identify as black when being black is not a monolith. And if identifying as a race only required looking like that race, then you’re basically saying every white and fair skinned person in the world could simply go out and get a tan and a kinky curly wig and identify as black. It’s an insult that people even think that that is enough to be a black person.

Yeah I think you guys missed the most important part of the definition of race which was about people having shared ancestry. Transracial also isn’t really comparable to being transgender because anyone can be transgender, only a small number of people can pull off being transracial. I think this episode could’ve used someone who has studied this topic or is an expert on race/ethnicity studies.

Here is another perspective of what transracialism is. https://youtu.be/jSPSXqiIIQM

R.I.P. Maddox Madison

R

I am loving the colors on Bob and Monet and Kizha’s faces! I love that they’re in drag this ep again I did miss that. Monet is giving me Buttercup

aina

i’m waiting if you discuss Hilary/Hilaria Baldwin

aina

I'm sorry but this is not it for me... It's funny how people who have publicly identified as "transracial" are white. White people can claim to be any race because of their privilege. A Black person can't take off their blackness the way that these white people can. Transracialism only works one way (white to another race) it's just another way for white people to claim other cultures as their own. Also, a Black person claiming to be white will still experience macro and micro racism. For example, do you think a Black person who identify as white will receive better healthcare? Will the police stop pointing a gun at them when they say that they're actually white?

Markus

not meet me by the tater tots LMFAOOO

Joia G

Gamefly is worth it!

Scott Bazemore

also the middle eastern and asian thing proves how closed minded the west’s view of asia is. as a middle easterner i am asian. but people won’t view me as asian because i don’t fit the stereotypical features of an east asian person.

if you’re going off the definition of race transracialism can’t exist. you can identify with a culture of a certain race but you can’t actually identify as that race. this is a very simplified explanation though as this whole topics is so detailed and full of contradictions that means it becomes so confusing. also race is often viewed in different ways across the world so it’s so difficult to reach a consensus on what means what. what i’m saying is that writing an essay on this is not a bad idea lol

Bob talking about trying to create black American culture had me in tears

Holy shit!!! Kizha was the first drag queen I ever saw when I moved to NYC. HUGE FAN!!!!!

OMG, MORE new content? And on my birthday?! Aww shucks... x

R S

In my experience as a mixed black person (18) when i was in middle school i used to tell pretty much all of my friends that i was transracial and that i was white. I was partially joking because obviously anyone who looked at me would know i wasn’t white, but at the same time i really didn’t feel black and was sort of ashamed of being black. I prided myself on my intelligence at a young age and in media and with the people around i saw almost 0 queer black people that i felt represented me and were also very successful, leading companies, know for their intelligence, etc. It wasn’t until mid high school when i was consuming more queer media (specifically drag race) that i really started being proud of being black and stopped jokingly saying that i was white.

Sibling Gabe

Transracial is just another form of white privilege. A white person can ‘choose a race’ because of colonization & there being light-skinned versions in all ethnic minorities due to forced mixing. A dark-skinned Black person cannot say they are anything but black.

SignedMCS

oh y’all are in drag for once

Wait so transracialism..? Hm

Why did you’ll keep ignoring the part of the definition of race that said “people of shared ancestors”. That in itself means that it isn’t just based on how you look.

SignedMCS

OMG LOVE KIZHA SO MUCH! the collaboration we needed

yea i’m crying

darrel