Early Access: Shōgun 10 - Group Reaction+Uncut
Added 2025-06-17 14:37:00 +0000 UTCUncut: https://thenormies.com/shogun-ea/
Edited reaction is in the thumbnail above!
Comments
The master of selfishness and nastiness meet Mistress Navi
Paul Mayes
2025-06-08 13:26:08 +0000 UTCThis cast just hit it out of park in so many ways and advocated for a lost art in filmmaking, which is localizing the direction of a culture. For example, the WW2 movie Tora Tora Tora, which was the buildup and attack on Pearl Harbor, the move had three directors, one American and Two Japanese directors to manage the depth and complexity of what they were filming. It made the Japanese portion of the film so complex and compelling as you see Yamamoto prepare for the biggest military attack on American soil ever committed. Shogun did the same by committing to accurate representation of the culture and language that it feels historical even if it is technically fiction.
Snow
2025-04-26 17:59:20 +0000 UTCI agree that the series is complete and shouldn’t have a second season for a couple of reasons: 1. This series is based on the book Shogun and completed the story. 2. While historical fiction, it track with the rise of the Tokugawa Shogunate, which united Japan. 3. We already know how most of it will go and they will have to explain where it diverges. 4. Because these are alterations to historical characters and events but breaking from the adaptation, they will have to create new composite characters who feel as natural as this cast. I will totally give them the benefit of the doubt in trying to make it work since they hit it out of the park with this, but I am a little worried just in general…
Snow
2025-04-26 17:54:15 +0000 UTCFor me, Moeka Hoshi as Fuji and Tokuma Nishioka as Hiromatsu were the greatest revelations. I've seen Sanada-san in other things ("The Last Samurai", "Avengers: Endgame"), and Tadanobu Asano ("Thor", et al), and even Anna Sawai ("F9"). But with the combination of nuance and characterization, Fuji was my hands-down favourite. She was a minor character in the 1980 miniseries. Speaking of which, and I don't mean it in any way to diminish; I think it is zero surprise at all that Sanada was magnificent. Toshiro Mifune played the character in 1980, and I feel like there was zero chance that he was not going to be excellent. So yeah, they were all great. But some surprisingly so. EDIT: Fumi Nikaido too, I forgot to mention.
Alvin Cura
2025-04-23 17:53:57 +0000 UTCThere is much difference in nuance between the Catholic (Roman), Orthodox, and Protestant traditions. Especially in that there are *so many* Protestant traditions. But all of them hope your loved ones go to heaven. "Difference in nuance" is quite an understatement as well. To Chris' point, the same book translated in different ways, and interpreted in different ways, is a very different book in a way.
Alvin Cura
2025-04-23 17:44:49 +0000 UTCIt was such a treat to experience this show again with you guys and and happy you enjoyed it and appreciated the ending for what it was because Beloit or not there was a loud minority that disliked how we didn’t get an actual battle.
ispeckz--
2025-04-23 07:22:42 +0000 UTCAnna Sawai absolutely deserves all the awards for her portrayal. It's insane to watch her completely pick up the mannerisms of Japanese noble women in that period, from the restrictive movements to the dignified persona. Absolutely phenomenal performance! Also, as someone else has already said, the flash forward was a dream of a dream John had about his life. His actual fate is, as Toranaga said, to never return to England and he lets Mariko go via the rosary (let your hands be the last to hold her).
fr0st
2025-04-23 05:02:14 +0000 UTCGreat point, Suraj about the water. I have seen this so many times but never spotted that John is really only free to express his vulnerable emotions on the water in this episode
fr0st
2025-04-23 04:59:22 +0000 UTCThe guy who plays Yabushige (Tadanobu Asano), has been in a ton of stuff over the years and always brings a great performance. First thing I ever saw him in was the cult classic movie "Ichi the Killer" directed by Takashi Miike. It's a super crazy/gory movie that had a pretty decent sized cult following in the early 2000's, I bet Chris knows about it. I didn't even know it was the same guy until I was going deep on IMDB with all the actors in this show. Asano's range is just incredible, definitely agree that he should have won best supporting actor in the Emmy's that year.
Paul Stanley
2025-04-22 23:03:14 +0000 UTCThis was the book. That's all there is to it. One and done. James Clavell did write other stories set in Asia, but in different time periods with different characters. It's become known as his Asian Saga; six books published over 3 decades, each taking place in a different country. Because the FX Shogun series was so successful, this crew is now going to use it as a springboard for another story, now strictly inspired by the actual history, rather than a famous novel inspired by said history. Speaking of which... When Blackthorne is kneeling before Toranaga, and he looks to the side, and we cut back to that old man, that is meant to signify he is "seeing" the possible future for himself where he leaves Japan behind, but never "lets go" of Mariko. When he goes "Fuck it. We live and we die.", and resolves to do the one thing he swore he would never do (give his life for a cause), that is him denying that possible future. Then when he finally lets go of Mariko (i.e. her cross), that's the final nail in the coffin of that potential future. This wasn't done as well as it could have been, as it confused a lot of people; especially those who know the actual history. The actual John Blackthorne, William Adams, star of the "Nioh" video-games (which also feature Yasuke), among other media properties fictionalizing his adventures, indeed never left Japan, becoming a close friend and advisor to Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga Yoshii) during his shogunate. As the Tokugawa shogunate is a treasure-trove of stories - from the historical to the mythological - there's a lot of material for the crew to draw from. Still, it will be a challenge matching an original story to one that was adapted from a book. If anyone can do it though, these people certainly can. --- It was subtle, but Toranaga DID tell Yabushige exactly what he wanted to know at the end. His line "Why tell a dead man the future?" Is the exact line Yabushige said to Omi in episode 1, when Omi asked Yabushige if they should tell Toranaga about the barbarian ship. This reveals that Omi has been in cahoots with Toranaga, and this, combined with the little smirk Toranaga gives before the cut, confirms that Yabushige does indeed see Toranaga's secret heart. He was always striving for shogun as his goal. --- Fuji wasn't saying she was going to bury the ashes. She said she SHOULD bury them, but instead, she's clinging to them, not knowing what to do. So like Blackthorne, she needs to let go. FUN FACT: The lake they're in when they let go of the ashes and cross, is a lake in Canada where James Clavell's wife and daughter spread his ashes after his death. The location was chosen specifically because of that, and the wife and daughter were invited to set when they were shooting that scene. 🥹
Nabeshin
2025-04-22 23:01:04 +0000 UTCGiri/Haji is a really good show I recommend watching on your own (on Netflix). Ana Sawai and Takehiro Hira (Ishido), who also happen to be in Monarch, are in it, as well as Kelly McDonald (can't wait for ya'll see see Boardwalk Empire) and Will Sharpe (Ethan in White Lotus). First time I saw Ana Sawai was in this, and it shows Will Sharpe's incredible range. Ugh. Anyway, it's star studded with great performances and slept on af.
Alexis Cardarella
2025-04-22 20:02:07 +0000 UTCLike someone else commented, just confirming: the future scene wasn't real, it was a dream he had about the future if he went back to England.
V. R.
2025-04-22 17:26:40 +0000 UTCthere is no book 2 what do you mean? Tai-Pan is 300 years later and about hong kong, it has nothing to do with Shōgun? also no the novel is pretty much 50/50 between Blackthorne and Mariko, you only get Toranagas POV right at the end. Bizarre you found someone who was a fan of Shōgun who didn't like this show. Also bizarre you think there is a "book 2" and well pretty much everything else you posted, are you sure you've read the novel?
Macs
2025-04-22 17:21:59 +0000 UTCSuraj: Mariko was the best part. Spot on. The series was REALLY about HER. Sure, the books are about John and Toranaga is a huge character as well. But this series, it was about Mariko. I figured it out early on, but only cause I was having it out with a book reader that was shitting on the series. It baffled me since book 1 is basically played out very well on screen (haven't finished book 2 yet so can't speak on the adaptations accuracy). But then I got it. Mariko was really the only one we knew of her dreams, desires. John was just trying to survive, we weren't learning about his dreams, goals & desires. A little bit of the same with Toranaga. So yeah, Mariko was the main character of the series. And Anna is a phenomenal actor to have pulled off THAT role. Like are you kidding me, a 1600s Japanese married mother. How is an actor supposed to ACT when you're supposed to be a meek, mild mannered, polite, woman who aren't allowed to really move all that much....even the way they walk, where it appears they just glide, is moving your feet like 3 inches at a time. Meanwhile the Toranaga character gets to man-spread, puff his chest out, yell and basically everything you can think of when it comes to ACTING. So for Anna to do ALL OF THAT with so VERY LITTLE available to her.....BRAVOOOO!!!!!
Jimmy Greer
2025-04-22 16:55:00 +0000 UTCThis show was amazingly well done as a fan of the novel since I was a child I never imgained it would get this kind of treatment ever just fantastic. Ok some things about the book, Yes that is end of the story in the novel, I don't mind if they continue it if done well but that is the end of the original novel John reading Mariko the last rites (catholic): in the novel John asks Father Alvito if that still counts as last rites he says he did his best to say it as a catholic would, Alvito says no as John is a heretic being protestant however Alvito gave Mariko her last confession in both the book and the show before her death so he would like to believe she was free from sin at her death and thanks John for trying. Of course the "flashforward" at the beginning was just imagined by John it isn't real never happens, Anjin never leaves the Japans, thats the whole point with Marikos crucifix he drops it in the ocean giving up any chance of that future happening. Toranaga has some internal thoughts in the end: 1: his thoughts on John "everyone is confused why I look after the Anjin the truth is he makes me smile and a man needs at least one friend" 2 he used one ninja to burn Johns ship "If Ishido can use 30 ninjas and fail I can use one and succeed" 3: his final thought "What I’ve fought for and planned for all my life. I, alone, am heir to the realm. I will be Shōgun. And I have started a dynasty. It’s all possible now because of Mariko-san and the barbarian stranger who came out of the eastern sea. "Mariko-san, it was your karma to die gloriously and live forever. Anjin-san, my friend, it is your karma never to leave this land. It is mine to be Shōgun. "
Macs
2025-04-22 16:51:26 +0000 UTCIt's hard to tell which episode wrecked me harder. The last one or this one. The scene with John & Fuji just tears me apart. Especially knowing that those scenes were shot from James Cavell's lake property home. So to have props of characters he created being put in the lake he would likely sit by and enjoy....seems wildly fitting.
Jimmy Greer
2025-04-22 16:31:19 +0000 UTCIt wasn't the future we were seeing Blackthorne in, it was a dream. 'A Dream of a Dream' if you will. A possible future that Blackthorne imagines for himself but lets go of in that moment with Fuji. He's gone through so much development over the series while continually trying to escape Japan. This is him accepting his fate like Mariko and letting it come to him. I forget if you guys discussed the book but it is a dramatized retelling of the real rise of the Tokugawa Shogunate and the life of the real English pilot/Anjin, William Adams, the first Englishman to arrive in Japan. In Clavell's story the characters are given new names but the substance is mostly the same. William Adams would become a Samurai, Hatamoto, and even a friend of Tokugawa Ieyasu. William Adams arrived in Japan in 1600 and spent the remainder of his life there, never returning to England.
Elysium
2025-04-22 15:28:34 +0000 UTC
