Early Access: Angel 5x13 - Uncut
Added 2025-03-13 14:32:00 +0000 UTCLink to website: https://thenormies.com/angel-uncuts-only-ea/
Comments
I don't take issue with it happening again. I feel like the situation with Cordy was botched, and this is them having another go at it, but doing it the right way, not harming the character and allowing the actor to do something completely different, rather than just using it as a device to have a surprise villain turn and then write off the character. Edit: What I mean is that when I see S4 Cordy, I see "Evil Cordy"; when I see Iliyra, I don't see Fred at all.
Twiska Brand
2025-03-27 13:37:49 +0000 UTCRana is very astute to point out how this happened AGAIN to the one woman left on the show. Some fans take issue with that, and rightfully so. I think it's worth recognizing but the Illyeria storyline is so incredibly good and Joss delivers some of his best work in the writing and heartbreak, that I'm ultimately not too upset about it. Surj was absolutely right to want to replay Spikes hole in the world speech. On the DVD commentary, Joss notes how he can rely on James to deliver top tier Shakespeare-like speeches if he needs him to, given James' classically trained background.
SpikesEcho
2025-03-18 08:50:45 +0000 UTCSameeeee
Carson Cardarella
2025-03-02 08:55:28 +0000 UTCMaybe "completely screws the timeline" was a bit strong. But it definitely makes you go, "Huh?" Like if this had happened when the episode said it did, angel would have already known that turning someone into a vampire while he had a soul isn't any different from when he doesn't have a soul. So him considering that turning Darla into a vampire to save her might be different because he has a soul would have been super weird. Because he's already learned that lesson. I mean okay, maybe one could argue that because it was specifically Darla that Angel wasn't thinking rationally. So ill concede the point on that one. But some other episodes in the past really move the goalposts as to when and for how long he was chasing rats on the street and avoiding society like it was established in Buffy. I guess that is the struggle when you're doing a spinoff and sort of backfilling a backstory. It just annoys me a bit. But I also don't expect other folks to agree and don't wanna yuck someone's yum π
Smash Bran'Discootch
2025-03-02 01:42:19 +0000 UTCSuper bad move. If they filmed the reaction by itself then it means that the next three streams would end the season three episodes a piece. Stream 1: 14, 15, 16 Stream 2: 17, 18, 19 Stream 3: 20, 21, 22 Perfectly balanced. As all things should be.
Ren Davis
2025-03-01 20:27:29 +0000 UTC@Swedish Malin, thats good ending on 5x15 would be a bad move
Macs
2025-03-01 11:54:18 +0000 UTCthanks
Macs
2025-03-01 11:46:05 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown Not my favorite episode for a variety of reasons. This episode conflicts a little bit with the conversation Angel has in S2 with Darla when he's trying to reason with himself that turning her while he has a soul might be different because in here we learn that in the 1940s he's definitely already done that and he knows the result. That said, I think this episode would've been thematically stronger if it had tied the ideas of Angel losing a soldier to him losing Doyle and Cordelia. Doyle was described in last episode as the "first soldier down" and he was then paralleled with Cordelia as the next person Angel loses. I wish we had not lost Cordy at all but if you're going to kill her off, the least you could do is have the next episode focus on how her absence makes the team and especially Angel feel and how her loss will impact them going forward. We could've made this an episode of contemplation for them and a way for Angel to process his grief at losing Cordelia by remembering his failure with Sam Lawson. I also think Lawson being stabbed and dying before Angel turns him makes the moral dilemma they attempted to create quite flat. It would've been more interesting if Angel was forced to turn him for the mission or to save everyone else but Sam wasn't dying and instead Angel makes a dark and heavy choice to sacrifice Lawson for the others.
Feather_Noir
2025-03-01 05:36:33 +0000 UTCYeah, they've only done livestreams up until 5x12 and then filmed this one with just Suraj and Rana to get it out today. Hopefully a livestream is to come with everyone for 5x13-15.
Swedish Malin
2025-02-28 19:34:52 +0000 UTCSurprised by these comments...it's a filler episode AND a mediocre mess that clashes with previously established lore in every scene, from Angel and Spike to how a vampire wanders into the offices and hangs up executives. Ridiculous and pointless.
Scott
2025-02-28 19:30:23 +0000 UTCThey only watched this episode this time, they cancelled the livestream because so many were sick but still had to get this episode done before today. They mentioned in this reaction/discussion that the rest will be back for the next episode, so hopefully they'll do three episodes then!
Swedish Malin
2025-02-28 19:23:01 +0000 UTCCamden Toy is dead too. So is Hinton Battle (Sweet). Rewatching the dance number between Dawn and Sweet in Once More With Feeling is going to be so bittersweet now.
Ren Davis
2025-02-28 18:17:04 +0000 UTCNo idea. They didnβt film it live last time. I assume they got to 5x15, but I donβt know.
Ren Davis
2025-02-28 18:16:00 +0000 UTCKeep telling the truth, the more people getsome awareness, the better. RIP Michelle Trachtenberg
NICK Luna
2025-02-28 18:10:43 +0000 UTCThe Human Resource Initiative? I forgive you for not picking up on it since you're not an obsessed fan who has seen this half a dozen times like someone who is definitely not me. :P The initiative...Buffy season 4.
Tasker Thorn
2025-02-28 12:49:08 +0000 UTCdoes anyone who watches the live stream know what episode they are up to? just wondering if they got to 5x15 yet?
Macs
2025-02-28 04:54:07 +0000 UTCThe Prince of Lies is played by Camden Toy same guy that played one of the gentleman, the torak-han (uber vamps) and the gnarl (skin eating demon that got willow) this is his last role in the buffyverse. Also RIP Michelle
Macs
2025-02-28 04:46:48 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown #Angel I'm glad (and surprised) that you guys enjoyed this episode as much as you did, since most people don't care for it and see it as filler. This episode does seem like an odd choice to follow the Cordy episode but to be fair any episode would struggle to follow that episode, being the 100th episode and all. I first watched most of this season as it aired on TV and initially I didn't much care for it, cause I too was still reeling from losing Cordy, but after years and rewatches I've come to appreciate this episode a lot more, considering how it expands upon Angel's status and psyche during this time, and also the connection to The Initiative where we see that the US government started that program (called the Demon Research Initiative) during this time and its implied here that the tech they eventually use on Spike (the chip) was stolen/modified from the Germans. And I always loved the irony of the dialogue in this episode: Angel: "I'm not getting trapped in the bottom of the ocean." (Angel Season 4) Spike: "And I'm not getting experimented on by his government!" (Buffy Season 4)
Ariel17
2025-02-28 03:37:05 +0000 UTCHow does it screw his timeline exactly?
Ariel17
2025-02-28 02:20:07 +0000 UTCThe actor playing Lawson, Eyal Podell, I always thought he looked like Tom Cruise. Even his voice. Maybe thats just me.
Ariel17
2025-02-28 02:19:07 +0000 UTCRIP Michelle Trachtenberg
Joe Traupman
2025-02-27 19:54:31 +0000 UTCdefinitely just an okay episode, mostly filler but with a strong ending. I really do love the concept of what happens if a vampire with a soul turns someone vs a regular vampire. Always found that interesting about this episode. I also like the actors portrayal of this. He feels empty, trying to find out why he feels so different. Too bad this couldn't be expanded on more. Now we get into some of the best episodes of the show, can't wait for this back half of the season. Also, RIP Michelle.
Anakin
2025-02-27 19:53:12 +0000 UTC"Skinny Steve Rogers" is literally what I've called that guy for years! It's crazy to me how much he looks like Chris Evans, but especially pre-Captain America Steve. lol I also appreciated the actor's performance in this. " 100% I agree!
Shirlene Wright
2025-02-27 19:34:37 +0000 UTCThis episode is....okay, but it also COMPLETELY screws up Angel's timeline. They do that a few times in this series--telling stories that go against the canonically established timeline of what angel was doing and when.
Smash Bran'Discootch
2025-02-27 19:11:16 +0000 UTCThey watch 3 at a time, which means theyβve already watched the next 2, so I donβt know if thatβs going to happen :(
Cassidy
2025-02-27 18:57:00 +0000 UTC"Skinny Steve Rogers" is literally what I've called that guy for years! It's crazy to me how much he looks like Chris Evans, but especially pre-Captain America Steve. lol I also appreciated the actor's performance in this. A lot of people do not like this episode, but I quite like it for a filler. My friend who is a history major loves it too. It's obviously fictional history, but it's informing on real history too, like the other commenters are saying. I love the whole "wacky heist" situation and wish the those two vampires had been kept around longer. lol I also really like the idea of a possible difference of an ensouled vampire turning someone vs being a regular soulless vampire, and wish the show would have built on that more. It's actually not the first time it's been brought up, as it was very fleetingly mentioned when Angel was in the hotel room with dying human Darla and he had finally began to consider turning her.
Alexis Cardarella
2025-02-27 18:14:39 +0000 UTCYou'll want a full couch for next week's episode "Smile Time" RIP Michelle Trachtenberg βΉοΈπ
Glenn D. Jones
2025-02-27 18:00:23 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown I don't care what ANNNNNYONE says cause much like cautionary tale, this one gets so much meh from reactors when it's one of the best one off episodes of the season, maybe the show. One of the best things Angel does is explore the vampire mythos deeper. We got a hint of it in buffy with the gem of amara (which carried over to angel) but angel also had the heart removal surgery in hearthrob and now this. It is a FASCINATING idea to consider what a souled vampire siring someone is. Tech. we already have seen this ala spike in season 7 under control of the first but none of them lasted very long. This was a vampire sired by an ensouled vampire who was left to explore his inner demon for 50/60 years. Not to mention the absolute PAIN on angel's face when he says 'I don't think it works that way, son...' And as someone else I think pointed out. The demon research INITIATIVE. Spike should've kept burning those papers, it would've saved him a HELL of a headache 50 years later lol. one thing that IS true is the rest of this season is GOLD and I'm so excited to see you guys react to it. and...yeah sadly, RIP michelle <3
Brendan Masker
2025-02-27 17:28:09 +0000 UTCI wouldn't quite call it a dud because I can see what it's going for and it's got some things I like. But it is unfortunately sandwiched between two very good episodes and it's merely OK.
LatePaul
2025-02-27 17:24:47 +0000 UTCoh no I'm about to throw down here XD god why does EVERYONE have something to say about this AMAZING episode? where's the dislike button?
Brendan Masker
2025-02-27 17:23:40 +0000 UTCIt was such a weird placement for this episode too, after everything that happened with cordy , just immediately shifted to a filler episode that had no significance to the rest of the season
Rey
2025-02-27 17:07:35 +0000 UTCFINALLY, this was the last "dud" episode of the Buffyverse IMO. And now we enter into some of the best television made β€οΈ
SpikesEcho
2025-02-27 16:43:48 +0000 UTCFun fact: this episode was the reason that I learned that the British national anthem changes depending on the gender of the monarch. I had always known it as βGod Save The Queenβ since Elizabeth was the monarch for our entire lives at that point. Especially with the popular Sex Pistols song. Back in World War II, the monarch was her father, so the anthem was βGod Save The King.β The more you know!
Ren Davis
2025-02-27 16:23:20 +0000 UTCRIP βNibletβ π
Chris K.
2025-02-27 16:13:09 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown the plot of episode about Nazia doing crazy experienments are true. Nazi and Hitler were into all kinds of Stuff Hitler was into Occult. It is also based on a True Story. It was called "Operation Paperclip". It was a secret US intelligence program that brought German scientists and engineers to the United States after World War II. The program's goal was to help the US military during the Cold War. How it worked The program began in July 1945 and continued into the 1960s. More German/Nazi 1,600 scientists, engineers, and technicians were recruited. The scientists worked on a variety of projects, including jet and rocket engines, guided missiles, and aerodynamics. Many of the scientists went on to work in American industry, academia, and the military. It was declassifed Years Later it was a very controversal later because some were Nazi who commited Crimes who later pardon to do the work.
Eric Zebrowski
2025-02-27 15:53:27 +0000 UTC#SundayRundown R.I.P. Michelle Trachtenberg. Harriet the Spy, Inspector Gadget, Buffy, and Eurotrip fan for life. Gone way too soon. For the episode, the guys who sent Angel on the mission were the proto-Initiative, the group that Riley (Suck Jobs!) worked for. The experiments that the Nazis were working on was learning how to modulate demon behavior: the same research that eventually leads to the inhibitor chip that the Initiative uses on Spike. So the U.S. government utilized Nazi research to facilitate their interests. Itβs like a supernatural slant on Operation Paperclip where the U.S. employed Nazi scientists, engineers, and technicians to advance American interests in the Cold War. They were instrumental in American scientific advancement like the U.S. space program for example. However, it was very controversial to work with Nazis who committed war crimes to suit our purposes. The crux of this episode is about compromising the moral high ground to work with evil because the ends justify the means. Angel in the past is empty and forced to save the Nazi research to give to the Initiative. It wasnβt about saving lives or fighting evil. Lawson represents that idealism that Angel lacks in the past and has lost in the present. Essentially, Lawson is intentionally reminiscent of Captain America and is ultimately used to remind Angel why we fight.
Ren Davis
2025-02-27 15:46:53 +0000 UTC
