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[Early Access + Uncut] Links of the Day!
Added 2022-05-06 12:56:58 +0000 UTCThe Clone Wars 60 (3x16)
Reaction: https://youtu.be/n06Onvi6WrQ
Uncut: https://thenormies.com/theclonewars/ (pg. 7)
RWBY 8x4
Reaction: https://youtu.be/W73xW5zf9g4
Comments
How she felt about her actions is irrelevant, based on the facts she had at her disposal she WAS justified. The military was stealing from the citizenry causing active harm and when asked why they refused to say. Not just why, but refused to say ANYTHING. That's unsustainable and the citizenry would literally be justified in far more extreme actions against the military than Robin performed. Not FEEL justified. ACTUALLY BE justified. We the audience know the why's of it all, but they were kept in the dark and offered no relief nor even promise of relief, all while the decadence of the rich went untouched. That alone is a SEVERE mishandling of things on Ironwood's part. And honestly it's the root of everything that followed. Had he done better on that one thing, no one would have had turned on anyone.
Jeff
2022-05-09 22:47:58 +0000 UTCIf you want to super simplify it: terrorists hurt people, that is their goal. Robyn is actively trying to HELP people. Is she breaking the law to do it? Sure, you could say that. She's stealing. But she's Robin Hood, what did you really expect? No one calls Robin Hood a terrorist for doing the SAME THING. She's not even just stealing money to give to the poor, she's literally trying to steal supplies an entire city desperately needs just to survive. She's just trying to fix the wall in Mantle for the main part. Your blind loyalty to Ironwood is hilarious. He was trusting at first because he was so desperate for help. He was scared shitless the whole time, ever since Beacon, and when they showed up? Yes he trusted them because he was like "Finally, some help". And they seemed to validate his plan by agreeing to help him. But once he turns on them and is willing to just let Mantle die? No. That is not a good decision. I mean if he wants to look at is as "removing Atlas will save Remnant because this relic will be out of reach so she can't ultimately get what she wants in the end" then alright, it's a tough decision but the good of the many outweigh the good of the few. But that's not what he's doing. If it was then he would let Mantle come up to Atlas in a ditch effort to save as many as he can before they yeet themselves up into the air. And what he does later this volume (Not giving spoilers here) directly goes against the idea of saving people by sacrificing a few. He isn't planning to come back at all; Salem would be there waiting and all of it would be for nothing at that point. He wants to go into the sky and stay there forever, screw the rest of the world in their struggles. The reason it's a tough decision is because of the whole 'good of the many' thing, but to heroes like Ruby that is not an acceptable loss. It's what happens with most heroes; they want to save EVERYONE but in the end they usually can't, and that is a turning point for them. Is Ruby right all the time? Absolutely not, she's 15/16 out here making mistakes, she's a kid thrown into adulthood too early and left with the weight of everything on her shoulders. Would you prefer if she went through and never made mistakes? How boring of a show would that be? no stakes, no danger, just "Oh Ruby's always right". We want her to make mistakes because we want conflict and we want to see her grow from that. If you never make mistakes you can't learn from them. At least she's accepting her mistakes; Ironwood is outright denying the fact he even made any. I loved Ironwood. SO MUCH. He was one of my favourite characters and I still like him for the whole "either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" aspect. I eat that shit up. Volume 7 is so good for that. Volume 8 too, of course, even if I think he ultimately takes it too far. But you have to hit rock bottom to start climbing up. So I'm saying all this as someone fully on his side for a lot of this, someone who has enjoyed his character and his arc and everything in between. But Robyn, while misguided sometimes, isn't a terrorist. Ironwood IS a war criminal. Robyn only wants to help people---the people forgotten by those up in Atlas, those in the government running things. Did she go about it wrong? Absolutely, in some places. Did she make mistakes? Yep, definitely. But I will die on this hill where everyone is complex and human and isn't perfect. Everyone has trauma they are dealing with, everyone tries to do what they think is best while failing to realise other things, and I am here for it. If you can't get behind it then maybe it's time to stop watching the show. I've certainly quit things if they do things I don't really like/can't get behind. Better than getting bitter about it.
Jessica Smith
2022-05-09 16:32:29 +0000 UTCEh, Ren had some fair points but he was saying it for the wrong reasons. If he sat them down and discussed it then fine, but he was just lashing out because he was mad at himself. It's a realistic depiction of being overwhelmed, of course, but there's a reason lashing out isn't healthy.
Jessica Smith
2022-05-09 16:11:26 +0000 UTCRobyn is not a terrorist. I implore you to note the key differences in definition between a terrorist and a political activist: Terrorist - unlawfully using violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. Activist - a person who campaigns to bring about political or social change. Ironically, the label of "terrorist" matches up with Ironwood much more than anything Robyn has done (but you might find "war criminal" to be even more apt). And it's...weird that you're brushing off Ironwood's hero complex. It is literally the most blatant part of his character, right down to the lyrics in his own theme: "Take my hand. I’m here to protect you. Nothing will stop me...Trust me to be strong. I’ll be your **hero**, just hold on!"
MRBS
2022-05-08 01:24:16 +0000 UTCLike I mentioned in a previous post, the writers decided to make both sides have logical decisions so that everyone wouldn’t be suddenly forced into converting to one side. Over time, they gave each side both positive and negative decisions to guide the viewer in the direction they want to take the story. If anyone doesn’t agree by the end with the final destination of this path, then that means that either the writers weren’t clear enough with their vision, or the viewers are locked into one side too heavily and/or they are missing vital info. I personally have enjoyed Ironwood’s story and will continue to be in my top 3 male characters.
Daniel
2022-05-06 21:08:00 +0000 UTCFor the most part Trey, I agreed with some of the things you suggested in previous posts regarding Ironwood even though I lean more towards RWBY’s decisions. However, after seeing your comment on the YT video “every decision Ironwood has made was correct” (unless that wasn’t you, and in that case I apologize), that I can not get behind. Both sides have made difficult and bad decisions, and both have continued to counter each other’s plan to make sure they came up on top. If one side was 100% correct, we wouldn’t be having these arguments.
Daniel
2022-05-06 21:07:41 +0000 UTCyou're sad and also wrong. ironwood is the daddy in all scenarios
Trey Milliner-Williams
2022-05-06 20:10:33 +0000 UTCyou're sad and also wrong. ironwood is the baddy in all scenarios
SaviorOfNirn
2022-05-06 20:03:39 +0000 UTCEspecially and only are not synonymous for starters. if you are gonna recite your definition at least read it. also im sure most terrorist feel justified in their reasons for committing terroristic acts. also pulling up on rwby, clover, qrow, and penny and acting like they were gonna fight is def intimidation. so please go write about it in your diary im so sorry you are so upset Ironwood is right. Actually I really dont care i find people like you to be utterly pathetic. lashing out at people who disagree with over cartoon characters lol its really sad.
Trey Milliner-Williams
2022-05-06 19:02:51 +0000 UTCTrey, a terrorist by definition: a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims She struck military targets, to provide material support for suppressed citizens, against a military that categorically refused to communicate (AND WAS STEALING SAID MATERIALS), and attempted to intimidate nobody, and for zero political purposes. Her run for councilwoman was a separate maneuver to achieve similar results. You gotta be one hell of a blind simp for Ironwood to try to spin her intentions as some play for power, and a blatant dumbass to consider her a terrorist considering that definition was a 10 second google search away.
Jeff
2022-05-06 18:52:56 +0000 UTCBlake and Yang cooperating with Hill is working with a terrorist. she is by definition a terrorist. also yea Ironwoods the one with the hero complex. Im pretty sure thats like Rubys only personality trait
Trey Milliner-Williams
2022-05-06 18:09:28 +0000 UTCI'm using Ironwood's dialogue and everything he and character's aligned with him have said. He never once talks about a plan to come back, therefore it is a likely assumption, by the narratives own rules, that he had no plans for such a thing. Which is exactly why he says "Remnant is doomed, Ruby!" in the very first episode of this volume. And even if Team RWBY and the lot *had* done most of what you said (they never tried to "manipulate" him, nor did they work with a "known terrorist"), this is still a great and powerful enough time for Ironwood to act like the adult and leader that he claims to be, put his hero complex aside and work with people, that he might not even agree fully with, in order to stave off Salem and the immediate threat she poses to Atlas, Mantle and Remnant at large.
MRBS
2022-05-06 18:06:54 +0000 UTCyou quite literally do not know that as he never once said they wouldnt be back lol. also being open to people that lied to you, tried to manipulate you, went behind your back to a known terrorist, and excluded you over and over because of their own insecurities? yea hes the unopen minded one. gave them knew equipment, trusted them as soon as he saw them, gave them top level training, gave them full huntsmen status. you right its Ironwood not stepping up because of insecurities. have a good one
Trey Milliner-Williams
2022-05-06 17:23:30 +0000 UTCStrategic retreat is a thing, yes, but Ironwood's answer isn't a strategic retreat to fight the way another day. It's to run in totality. Which is just a bad idea, because its very tunnel visioned and not at all foolproof. I'm not denying that Ruby shares responsibility for the state of Atlas/Mantle at the current juncture, but Ironwood shares much more of that responsibility. Instead of stepping up to that responsibility or to the call of being more open to your teammates, he and Ren are on a course of excluding everyone in order to prop up their own desires or insecurities.
MRBS
2022-05-06 17:16:42 +0000 UTCNo, the Son is not the guy from the Obi-Wan trailer. That guy is a character from Rebels, and his species is from Utapau, which is the planet where Obi-Wan killed Grievous in Revenge of the Sith. The Son looks similar to that species, but given that he is a Force deity, he's obviously not one of them.
Darth Skhorrn
2022-05-06 16:48:56 +0000 UTCIn war there’s this thing called retreat. Also these decisions are why 4 different things happen. This was a trash plan and now everything that follows is on Rubys head. It takes more to be a leader than simple emotional support and her/Jaune prove over and over that when it comes to actually making life altering decisions they choose the most childish near sided option every time.
Trey Milliner-Williams
2022-05-06 16:36:48 +0000 UTCIf "this is war", why is Ironwood trying to run away rather than fight and protect the people? The only people dying are the ones in Mantle, solely because of Ironwood's decisions to not turn the heat back on or help evacuate people into Atlas. It's important, here, to understand that these emotional outbursts (both from Ren and Ironwood) come from a selfish sense of tunnel-visioned heroism or an inferiority complex. So these arguments they spout are fueled less by logistics and more by their fragile emotional state of minds. It's why the later Ren scene where [REDACTED] happens is so important, because its a direct antithesis to this Ren scene.
MRBS
2022-05-06 15:44:40 +0000 UTCRen was speaking facts. Fuck all that being nice shit this is war and people are dying because of the decisions they are making. The whole group needed to hear that. This made Ren a fan favorite for awhile. And I agree with everything he said.
Trey Milliner-Williams
2022-05-06 13:33:48 +0000 UTC
