Chapter 20: The Dementor’s Kiss | Prisoner of Azkaban (Ad Free!)
Added 2024-10-18 21:00:05 +0000 UTCJoin J and Ben as they dive into Chapter 20 of the Prisoner of Azkaban and discuss Flints, Sirius’ offer for Harry to live with him, Lupin’s transformation, Peter’s escape, Sirius’ love for Harry, the dementors, and various wacky theories.
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What If Harry Was in Slytherin: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLHeqkcn5RTcJm1P391rp3tl8W0_ksFwc&si=LwKyPy-69M7GgVqn
Edited by :: Ethan Edghill
Comments
My theory: Hermione always planned to save Buckbeak using the time turner, and Harry didn’t originally save himself and Sirius from the dementors at the end of the book, but was actually saved first by Severus Snape and his doe patronus. Allow me to explain. One of the major problems with the time turner plot in POA is that it leads to a bootstrap paradox at the lake. Only because Future Harry saves Past Harry from the dementors, Past Harry is able to travel back in time as now Future Harry and save himself. But if Harry hadn’t survived at the lake, he wouldn’t have been alive to go back and save himself. This is a major problem, unless we have misunderstood all along how time turners work in the HP canon (Which does NOT include Cursed Child!!!). Part of my theory is that time turners can only be used to go back and change past events, if the time travelers plans what they will use the turner for in advance, and then successfully executes their plan. Hermione for example, she can plan ahead of time on using the time turner to go back and take multiple classes held in the same hour, but when she misses a Charms class in Chapter 15 by accidentally sleeping through it, she can’t just go back in time and fix it. Time turner’s aren’t magic erasers for a wizards mistakes. For example, you can’t just go back in time and erase Cedric’s death (looking at you Cursed Child)! Hermione being very caught up and involved in the defense for Buckbeaks trial would’ve wanted to do something to help him, and she had just the thing. She planned all along to go back and free Buckbeak, and I believe even Dumbledore was in it with her to do this, which is why he acts so in the know during the execution/escape scene But then she got sidetracked, by being caught up in the whole Shrieking Shack fiasco with Black, Lupin, Pettigrew and… Snape. Why is Snape important? I’m glad you asked. When Harry and Sirius are later at the lake under attack by the Dementors, the only person who would’ve been present and able to cast a patronus to save them would’ve been Snape. Lupin after all had already transformed into his wolf form. I believe that Snape awoke from his unconscious state and ran to save Harry. Harry did not see Snape, but saw something that looked like a doe/stag, but being half unconscious himself couldn’t really tell the difference. This allows Harry to survive, and then him and Hermione would go back in time. From here on out, I will refer to this original timeline Harry as Harry #1. I believe Harry #1 this time ends up running to the edge of the lake and casts his Patronus to save what we will call Harry #2. Harry #2 looks across the lake before passing out, and sees someone who looks like him, who he thinks is his father. Then this Harry #2 wakes up in the hospital, he and Hermione #2 go back in time and now Harry #2 realizes that it wasn’t actually his father that saved him, but himself, so he runs forward to save what I will call Harry #3. To summarize it, there are three timelines: Timeline 1- Snape saves Harry #1 Timeline 2- Harry #1 saves Harry #2, Harry # 2 sees what he thinks is James Timeline 3- Harry #2 realizes that who he thought was James was actually him, saves Harry #3. In this theory, time travel sorts of works as an editor, adding extra layers, almost like re-recording over another recording on a tape or something like that. What I like about this theory is it solves all of the time travel paradoxes in the book, and makes such logical sense. And it is fitting and beautiful that Snape’s doe Patronus (representing Lily) and Harry’s stag Patronus (representing James) both played pivotal roles in this rescue.
Don
2024-10-25 00:19:53 +0000 UTCI never understood how Harry’s life is saved by himself from the future. Future Harry shouldn't even exist, he should be dead.
Buc Reviewer
2024-10-24 11:36:42 +0000 UTCRe: Taking damage and keeping personality in Animagus form So I was thinking about this and how similar Animagi seem to be in my opinion to the Wild Shape that is in DnD for druids. This allows you to become animals that you have seen before (with some caveats attached) and use their stat blocks BUT keep your intelligence and wisdom and personality. This is important because a Druid can for example become a fly and spy on the enemy and won't forget what they're doing there, but can also become an owlbear and have a more powerful punch. Keeping your mind is a thing specific to Druids though. There is a spell that allows you to change yourself or someone else into an animal, Polymorph. However, with this spell, you do NOT keep your mental abilities and instead assume that of the animal you have changed into. You do keep your personality however and know who friend vs foe is, but if you get turned into a worm, that's not going to be very helpful. I had always thought of Animagi like Wild Shaping, where you become as strong as the dog or quick as the rat for example, but you still have your own mind relatively speaking. Maybe Peter can't hear as well as a rat though, so it would make sense he couldn't hear their convo necessarily, but he still is cunning enough to fake his rat death. Either way, Wild Shape or Polymorph, you also take the animals hit points pretty much on top of your own. So you could become a whale for example and now have 100+ HP, when in human form you may only have 70. You effectively have 170 HP now, because when your animal's HP drops to 0, you revert back to humanoid at whatever HP you were when you first transformed. If the damage goes over the HP of the animal, then you would take the remaining amount in your humanoid form. I can see this being what happens to our beloved Animagi as well.
Allofakind
2024-10-23 16:16:27 +0000 UTCI've been thinking about how the Marauders used to go around campus and into town...and so many people 'almost' got bitten by Remus in werewolf form but no one remembered. Do you think someone obliviated the memory of the event? If the other 3 guys were with them, it would have been easy for one of them to return and do that. I figure if Hermione could erase her parents' memories of her, the Marauders should have been able to do it at the same age??
GryffEllen
2024-10-23 15:21:32 +0000 UTCI had always personally felt that Peter did need a wand to transform, but not anymore. Thinking about what Peter did after this scene makes me thing he doesn’t need a wand to transform. Peter is currently a rat, and is going to find Voldemort. He probably first gets Voldemorts wand, however, Peter doesn’t have any other wand. We then know Peter goes to Albania, but before finding Voldemort, he meets Bertha Jorkins in Albania. He must be a human then, because there would be no way to persuade Bertha to join him, and for him to “overpower her” as a rat; he must be in human form now. You could say Peter used Voldemorts wand to transform, however, during the graveyard scene at the end of GOF, we see all the spells used by the wand since GOF until the potters’ death (including murders of Frank and Bertha, crucio on Harry and Peter, the silver hand), but there is no mention of any Animagus transformation. The only other possibly scenario is Peter used another persons wand, but we know Peter was a rat until at least Albania (it was said he was guided by rat who had heard of a forest where creatures like them dared not go). But when he met Bertha he was a man, so I think he has to be able to transform without a wand
James Moore
2024-10-23 00:59:38 +0000 UTC"he becomes a beacon of happiness" don't mind me, just over here SOBBING
Jency
2024-10-21 17:46:06 +0000 UTCHaha! 🤭
AHuffleClawAndASwiftie
2024-10-21 16:41:06 +0000 UTCI think the whole Peter changing with a wand can be explained with Peter needing all the help he could get from James and Sirius. So all other animagi can perform wandless magic when changing to and from animal form but Peter being less able needs a wand to change into a rat and would need James/Sirius (later Voldemort) to change him back to human hence why is trapped or “chained” for 12 years because no one know to change him back as he is assumed dead
Christopher Warwick
2024-10-21 15:59:04 +0000 UTCDementor destroying a horcrux by biting on it like a teething toy :3
Amelia (not Bones)
2024-10-19 16:12:57 +0000 UTCWith all respect, I believe you misunderstood or had heard a misexplained version of my Snape theory, which I originally posted in this forum. My theory goes like this: One of the major problems with the time turner plot in POA is that it leads to a bootstrap paradox at the lake. Only because Future Harry saves Past Harry from the dementors, Past Harry is able to travel back in time as now Future Harry and save himself. But if Harry hadn’t survived at the lake, he wouldn’t have been alive to go back and save himself. This is a major problem, unless we have misunderstood all along how time turners work in the HP canon (Which does NOT include Cursed Child!!!). Part of my theory is that time turners can only be used to go back and change past events, if the time travelers plans what they will use the turner for in advance, and then successfully executes their plan. Hermione for example, she can plan ahead of time on using the time turner to go back and take multiple classes held in the same hour, but when she misses a Charms class in Chapter 15 by accidentally sleeping through it, she can’t just go back in time and fix it. Time turner’s aren’t magic erasers for a wizards mistakes. For example, you can’t just go back in time and erase Cedric’s death (looking at you Cursed Child)! Hermione being very caught up and involved in the defense for Buckbeaks trial would’ve wanted to do something to help him, and she had just the thing. She planned all along to go back and free Buckbeak, and I believe even Dumbledore was in it with her to do this, which is why he acts so in the know during the execution/escape scene But then she got sidetracked, by being caught up in the whole Shrieking Shack fiasco with Black, Lupin, Pettigrew and… Snape. Why is Snape important? I’m glad you asked. When Harry and Sirius are later at the lake under attack by the Dementors, the only person who would’ve been present and able to cast a patronus to save them would’ve been Snape. Lupin after all had already transformed into his wolf form. I believe that Snape awoke from his unconscious state and ran to save Harry. Harry did not see Snape, but saw something that looked like a doe/stag, but being half unconscious himself couldn’t really tell the difference. This allows Harry to survive, and then him and Hermione would go back in time. From here on out, I will refer to this original timeline Harry as Harry #1. I believe Harry #1 this time ends up running to the edge of the lake and casts his Patronus to save what we will call Harry #2. Harry #2 looks across the lake before passing out, and sees someone who looks like him, who he thinks is his father. Then this Harry #2 wakes up in the hospital, he and Hermione #2 go back in time and now Harry #2 realizes that it wasn’t actually his father that saved him, but himself, so he runs forward to save what I will call Harry #3. To summarize it, there are three timelines: Timeline 1- Snape saves Harry #1 Timeline 2- Harry #1 saves Harry #2, Harry # 2 sees what he thinks is James Timeline 3- Harry #2 realizes that who he thought was James was actually him, saves Harry #3. In this theory, time travel sorts of works as an editor, adding extra layers, almost like re-recording over another recording on a tape or something like that. What I like about this theory is it solves all of the time travel paradoxes in the book, and makes such logical sense. And it is fitting and beautiful that Snape’s doe Patronus (representing Lily) and Harry’s stag Patronus (representing James) both played pivotal roles in this rescue. The objections you raised don’t falsify this theory, because according my theory what we the reader see when Harry wakes up in the hospital is after he has already saved himself in timeline 2. Snape saves Harry only in timeline 1. So in this timeline Harry was in fact saved by himself, saw himself, and Snape wouldn’t know who did it.
Don
2024-10-19 14:29:21 +0000 UTCmaybe misery forces the growth of boggarts. so yes there would be more boggarts but they spend so little time as a boggart you wouldn't see an increase in them since the boggarts that already existed would've been forced to grow.
hufflepuffstixsnyper
2024-10-18 23:49:40 +0000 UTCOoh! Good point!! Hadn’t thought of that! 🤯🤔
AHuffleClawAndASwiftie
2024-10-18 23:36:15 +0000 UTCok so something I've never understood. Dementors feed on happiness, a patronous is a manifestation of happiness, so why does a patronous scare off Dementors? wouldn't they be attracted to a patronous like a buffet? what am I not understanding?
hufflepuffstixsnyper
2024-10-18 23:18:05 +0000 UTCI wholeheartedly agree: the person on the ground looks more like Hermione than Sirius! 😅 Also, then if Death/“Dementor King” (😉) was originally invisible 🫥, HOW could the 3 brothers SEE him in the first place to be able to give them all the “gifts” in the story?? And I THINK that J.K. DID consider killing Ron at one point, but I’m not sure which book she had considered it … Maybe in the 4th book instead of Cedric … 🤔 Also, aww 🥰, now I’m imagining a doggie 🐶 tail thumping madly & doing the dog happy pant!! 😍😍 If you have a puppy or are a dog person, you know EXACTLY what I mean here!! 🥹🐶 And chocolate 🍫 is also said to work with depression; thus, chocolate against Dementors, as well. 👍🏻 Also, I always read that as Fudge just being a complete “idiot” & totally not understanding the dangers of Dementors!! 😅 And, actually, in the BBC show, Merlin 🧙🏼♂️, unicorns 🦄 are also seen as like “pure” creatures & killing one will cause a curse to come to Camelot. Any more Merlin fans out there in the comments?? 🙋🏽♀️ I know it’s more of a “kid” show, but I just recently started re-watching the show as an adult & I’m still LOVING it!! 😍 Also, if Boggarts are “baby dementors”, then does that mean if there’s more depression out there, does that mean there will also be more Boggarts out there, too?? 🤯
AHuffleClawAndASwiftie
2024-10-18 21:50:40 +0000 UTC
