Tora! Tora! Tora! (1970)* FULL LENGTH REACTION
Added 2023-12-17 20:00:04 +0000 UTCIt's time for a producer pick!!! Thank you JAKH for this one 😀
Officially the oldest movie that I've seen, and holy jeepers is it interesting. I feel they did a good job showing people of higher ranks without us having to remember everything/everyone, which was a very good thing for me.
The sheer scale of this movie is absolutely amazing, too. Everything about it is grand and larger than life.
I'm learning so much and finding that I want to read up on WW2 a lot more. Over the holidays I'll have time to do some reading 😊
- Vero 😁
Thank you everyone for your continued support <3
Comments
Thank you, I'll have to check "world war 2" out!
Verowak
2023-12-24 17:19:09 +0000 UTCBoth the 76 and the 2019 have their pros and cons, I do like the 76 a little better but 2019 offers bits that are overlooked by the 76 version, I think it does a little better job of the Japanese POV and illustrates inferiority of American equipment a little better. I would say both are worth watching. Montemeyor channel is good but there is another channel "world war two" that does an ever better job breaking down the big battles, the minute by minute of pearl harbor was spectacular as well as the midway special and the hour by hour DDay special.
Bubba Fett
2023-12-24 02:46:34 +0000 UTCHistory is ALWAYS better than fiction! Why? Because fiction always has to make sense to the writer. History? Pfft anything goes does not have to make sense at all! Welcome to the rabbit hole. ;)
Daniel Looney
2023-12-20 17:57:04 +0000 UTCAlso. I am done with Discord and cancelled Patreon. You are good for full year. I just cannot. I try to be so clear and concise. Yet it always blows up in my face, GL to you.
Daniel Looney
2023-12-20 17:43:06 +0000 UTCJapan did decimate everything in the 1st 6 months. Took Hong Kong, Singapore (The worst defeat ever for the British empire). All of what is now Indonesia. They were hoping to cripple the US fleet take over everything and win a similar battle like the Battle of Tsushima (1905 war) and the US would just F#$% it and make a peace.
Daniel Looney
2023-12-20 17:40:07 +0000 UTCIt seemed that their best chance was to completely decimate the troops in the Pacific and hopefully they wouldn't regroup. Based on the movie, it didn't sound like Japan had a chance of winning, just pushing them out temporarily
Verowak
2023-12-20 17:20:32 +0000 UTCLightning attack makes sense when I heard it in anime! It was always fast attacks 😁
Verowak
2023-12-20 17:18:56 +0000 UTCAhh, I had no idea about Japan invading China. Something else that I'll have to read up on, thank you :D
Verowak
2023-12-20 17:17:55 +0000 UTCI've always had terrible History teachers so any interest in History was quickly removed 😁
Verowak
2023-12-20 17:16:57 +0000 UTCImpressive that he was able to be part of this movie. I wonder if he was able to give input on what happened
Verowak
2023-12-20 17:15:45 +0000 UTCI keep being surprised by just how many documentaries there are about WW2, which is amazing!
Verowak
2023-12-20 17:14:07 +0000 UTCI do love documentaries!! Thank you!
Verowak
2023-12-20 17:13:35 +0000 UTCI've subbed to Montemayor, seems like a very interesting channel thank you!
Verowak
2023-12-20 17:12:49 +0000 UTC@Phil Stubblefield My thinking was that if Vero is coming into the Battle of Midway cold, she might have trouble following the 2019 version without having a foundation of knowing what happened historically because of how much it skips over.
JAKH
2023-12-19 02:18:21 +0000 UTCYammato knew though and spoke. "I will run wild for 6 months, after that their no hope of victory." We the US killed him though in an air war ambush in 43 during the Solomon Island stuff.
Daniel Looney
2023-12-19 02:01:29 +0000 UTC@JAKH I agree that the 1976 version of _Midway_ is superior for many of the reasons that you cite. However, as a relatively young fan of the genre, Vero might enjoy the 2019 version more exactly because the storytelling is more in line with what her generation expects. She can always follow up with additional material if she wants to learn more. I completely agree that the animated documentaries on Montemayor's channel are a fantastic learning resource! I long ago added his Midway videos to my WWII playlist! In fact, Vero, you might enjoy following up _Tora! Tora! Tora!_ with Montemajoyr's video on the Pearl Harbor raid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6cz9gtMTeI
Phil Stubblefield
2023-12-18 23:26:05 +0000 UTCEither way it works. idk though
Daniel Looney
2023-12-18 20:13:08 +0000 UTCI just ran across this on the internet: What does the phrase Tora Tora Tora mean? “Tora Tora Tora” was the Japanese code expression for the signal to begin the attack on Pearl Harbor. “Tora” is a Japanese word that means “tiger,” but the full phrase is considered an abbreviation for totsugeki raigeki, which implies “lightning attack.”
PlaidGriffin
2023-12-18 20:01:15 +0000 UTCOnly because the UK carrier that was supposed to go with them ran aground!
Daniel Looney
2023-12-18 16:45:27 +0000 UTCOh, and Japan was defeated with only 15% of the US military and production during WW2. 85% went to defeating Nazi Germany via lend lease too USSR, UK, the commonwealth etc. Japan miscalculated badly on a strategic level.
Daniel Looney
2023-12-18 16:43:36 +0000 UTC"Tora" means "Tiger".
JAKH
2023-12-18 16:00:04 +0000 UTCThe Japanese also whacked a couple of British battleships at about the same time on the other side of the International Date Line (Dec 8th-10th, 1941): From Drachinifel's channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7dqxBdYBZI
JAKH
2023-12-18 15:52:07 +0000 UTCAnd 5 of the damaged/sunk ones were at the Battle of Surigao Strait in the Philippines in Oct 1944, while 3 of USS Arizona's main guns were refitted to the 6th, USS Nevada, and used for shore bombardment in both Europe and the Pacific.
JAKH
2023-12-18 15:47:29 +0000 UTCSlide 5. H. Japan decided because of the war in Europe to take SE Asian colonies. Hong Kong, Dutch East Indies, Malaya etc. I. To do that they thought they needed to take out the US Pacific Fleet. J. So formed a strategy of a sneak attack that worked well for them in the Russo-Jap war of 1905.
Daniel Looney
2023-12-18 15:03:22 +0000 UTCSlide 4. F. Japan was invading China from 1937 on. G. Japan needs resources to continue the war. F. Japan got slaughtered by the Soviet Union in 1939 in the Golkin Ghal incident. So forced to buy from the US. G. While neutral the US put sanctions on Japan to stop their war in China
Daniel Looney
2023-12-18 14:59:55 +0000 UTCSlide 3. E. Only 3 ships did not return to service with 2 years. The Arizona (one that blew up with 1,000 ish deaths), The Oklahoma (500ish deaths the one that turned over) and old target/training ship Utah.
Daniel Looney
2023-12-18 14:56:41 +0000 UTCSlide 2. C. Thank you for being curious and wanting to learn more. D. They did just piss people off. It was a great tactical victory and allowed Japan to run wild for 6 months. Midway was 6 months later
Daniel Looney
2023-12-18 14:54:43 +0000 UTCSo much to go over. So, I will pretend I am doing a PowerPoint and anyone can ask me questions. Slide 1. A. Great Reaction B. I am glad CA sucks at teaching history too! Well not glad, I will just be less harsh on my fellow citizens. :)
Daniel Looney
2023-12-18 14:52:41 +0000 UTC2 go-to documentary series for WW2 are "Battlefield" and "The World At War", both of which can be found on YouTube. Another series that is very good is "Secrets of War" aka "Sworn to Secrecy". The episode on the invasion of Japan is particularly good: "Japan, The Invasion That Never Was" or "X-Day, The Invasion That Never Was" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN29KqVIYrQ
JAKH
2023-12-18 08:18:51 +0000 UTCChronological timeline for nominally non-fiction/historical WW2 Pacific movies: "The Flying Tigers" (1942) very dramatized "Tora! Tora! Tora!" (1970) ⭐ "Pearl Harbor" (2000) 💩 "The Battle of Wake Island" (1942) dramatized "Bataan" (1942) dramatized "They Were Expendable" (1945) fictionalized version of historic events ⭐ "Back to Bataan" (1945) dramatized "30 Seconds over Tokyo" (1944) ⭐ "The Battle of the Coral Sea" (1959) dramatized "Midway" (1970) pretty historically faithful ⭐ "Midway" (2019) 💩 "In Harm's Way" (1965) fictionalized version of historic events ⭐ "The Fighting Seabees" (1944) dramatized "Guadalcanal Diary" (1943) dramatized "The Thin Red Line" (1964 original) dramatized "The Thin Red Line" (1998 remake) really dramatized "With the Marines at Tarawa" (1944) documentary ⭐ "PT-109" (1963) dramatized "Windtalkers" (2002) dramatized but pretty good ⭐ "Flags of Our Fathers" (2006) excellent ⭐ "Letters from Iwo Jima" (2006) excellent ⭐ "To The Shores of Iwo Jima" (1945) documentary ⭐ "Sands of Iwo Jima" (1949) dramatized "The Conscientious Objector" (2004) documentary. The true story behind "Hacksaw Ridge" ⭐ "USS Indianapolis: Men of Courage" (2016) dramatized In general, those made before 1944 are more "rah-rah" propaganda type films, while starting in 1944 they are more gritty and realistic, and the ones in the 1950's-1970's are more realistic and less glamorous. ⭐ = I recommend these over the others 💩 = self explanatory
JAKH
2023-12-18 08:07:41 +0000 UTCThe 2019 version of "Midway" is a terrible choice if you are not already familiar with the historical events. It skips a lot of important events and focuses on some pretty minor bits because it is trying to be a Hollywood action-drama rather than telling the story of the Battle of Midway, plus it has the failing of injecting anachronistic 2000's social views into the story. The original 1976 version of "Midway" is much better at explaining the course of the battle for someone unfamiliar with it, and puts much less emphasis on the Hollywood drama aspect. At the very minimum, watch the 3-part Youtube series on Midway by Montemayor (and the one on the immediately preceding Battle of the Coral Sea) before watching the 2019 "Midway" 💩-fest. - Battle of Coral Sea by Montemayor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB5hH3ksvKE - Battle of Midway by Montemayor (3-parts): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd8_vO5zrjo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXjydKPcX60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHO6xrSF7Sw
JAKH
2023-12-18 07:23:00 +0000 UTCDuring your watch, you asked about the ship that was listing and why it didn't turn turtle. There are a couple of ways to correct the list. First, battleships were designed to stay afloat even with severe lists, 20-30 degrees or more (there are photos from WW2 of damaged US aircraft carriers under power with 20+ degree lists). Second, besides the obvious method of pumping out the flooding water, the one that they mention is "counter-flooding", which is pumping sea water >into< the undamaged compartments on the opposite side of the ship to balance the weight distribution. Another method (not used here) is to turn the turrets so that the barrels of the main guns (several hundred tons each, 12 per ship) are on the undamaged side, again to shift the weight distribution.
JAKH
2023-12-18 07:09:02 +0000 UTCAnother YouTube channel, Drachinifel, specializes in naval history and has some very good documentary-style videos on Pearl Harbor: - "Pearl Harbour - Context, History, and an account from someone who was there" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkQ9gv6ubck - about the USS Arizona: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SDcEPV5gX0 - about the other battleships damaged and sunk and the salvage operations (3 parts): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB-V9cCSC8o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlLCe1WNaIE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eibt2gYuFD4 - plus a new one 2 weeks ago: "Revenants of Pearl Harbor - Nevada, California and West Virginia's return to the front lines" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KD0WyzhV08 - "When the Japanese came after a Pearl Harbor survivor again - USS Pennsylvania, August 12th 1945" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF0ooWX4ZHk - and one that the US later sold to Argentina (to be their fleet flagship) and the British Royal Navy sank in 1982 during the Falkland Islands War https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QIvJAWOoPs
JAKH
2023-12-18 06:48:26 +0000 UTCThe actor playing army General Short, Jason Robards, was a real-life survivor of the Pearl Harbor attack. He was aboard the light cruiser USS Honolulu, which was hit and damaged in the attack.
JAKH
2023-12-18 06:29:18 +0000 UTCFor a quick overview with animated maps, I recommend watching the video on Pearl Harbor by YouTuber Montemayor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6cz9gtMTeI and his following videos on the Battles of the Coral Sea, Midway, Savo Island, and the Eastern Solomons.
JAKH
2023-12-18 06:09:39 +0000 UTCYour geography questions: "French Indo-China" is the former Siam; modern Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. "Formosa" is modern Taiwan As an aside, the Vietnamese insurgent Viet Minh (later Viet Cong) under Ho Chi Minh fought the French in the 1920's-1930's, the Japanese in the early 1940's, the French again in the late 1940's and early 1950's, then the South Vietnamese government with US advisors, and finally US forces from 1965-1973. The US was a relative late-comer to the fighting in Vietnam, while the Vietnamese forces were well experienced.
JAKH
2023-12-18 06:07:16 +0000 UTCThere is a great ww2 documentary by Ken Burns called The War. It is narrated by my favorite character actor Keith David who has an amazing voice. Worth checking out on your own time. There are 7 eps and each ep is 150min long.
Ashley
2023-12-18 02:01:10 +0000 UTCSurprise! Happy early Christmas 😂
Verowak
2023-12-18 01:12:35 +0000 UTCI'm hoping to find a bit of time to read up on the actual history of the war movies that I've seen in order to get the correct version of events. It does seem like the Pearl Harbour attacks could have been a lot worse, it's interesting to see both sides of the battle (though usually the winners write history so it can be hard to know exactly what happened)
Verowak
2023-12-18 01:11:46 +0000 UTCMy history classes did not touch on the Pacific at all for WW2, so this is all new to me (history teachers were terrible so they never really instilled a curiosity in WW2 for me, sadly. Now it's different lol) You have me intrigued about watching the movies in chronological order. I have a list for the chronological order of the vietnam war that I'm hoping to start tackling soon
Verowak
2023-12-18 01:09:16 +0000 UTCThe way it happened is probably the best it could have. Had we known they were coming and if we sent ships to intercept them, they would have destroyed us. Also, it could have been a lot worse had they hit our dry docks and fuel depots which was big mistake on their part. Fortunately too, that the Nevada didn't block the channel as it would have taken a very long time to clear that out. I've studied WW2 for several years and find it fascinating. I just keep one rule in mind: Don't learn history from movies even though Tora does a pretty good job. They often tend to believe the history they make up is more interesting than the true history.
Jeff Barnes
2023-12-18 00:25:11 +0000 UTCAnd here I thought that Christmas was next week.
slypeartree
2023-12-17 23:49:08 +0000 UTCHoly cow, Vero, what a fantastic surprise! 😲 I've been interested in WWII history since I was a boy, and _Tora! Tora! Tora!_ is indeed an excellent movie within that genre. If you'd like to keep following the war in the Pacific chronologically, then I'd recommend watching _Midway_ (2019), a reasonably accurate account of the Battle of Midway, which took place in June, 1942, six months after the attack on Pearl Harbor, and which is widely viewed as the turning point in the Pacific Theater.
Phil Stubblefield
2023-12-17 22:52:03 +0000 UTC
