Update + Thanks
Added 2024-09-03 18:48:27 +0000 UTCOver the past few weeks you guys have been incredible with your feedback, comments, and DMs. I asked your thoughts on Thrones of the Fallen, and you responded, loudly and clearly.
You guys are enjoying the story. It's not an excellent web serial, and it has pacing issues, but perhaps, when seen as a novel? You guys are here for the ride.
I'll be honest. I was thinking of throwing in the towel there for a while. My hopes for this project was to grow it slowly but steadily here on Patreon, and that's just not happened. And with my need to write the sequels in The Immortal Great Souls series, the opportunity cost of keeping Thrones going as simply a web serial was just getting too high.
But then I thought: what if I pivot?
What if I think of this instead as rough drafts for a different series I'll post sooner than later on Amazon, along with premiere level audiobooks?
I can still fix the pacing. Drag the Yeoric duel to earlier in the book, trim some of the excessive navel gazing, perhaps, and tighten things up.
I've got lots more chapters already in the bag. Things are only going to get crazier. The stakes higher. Why throw in the towel when I can instead turn this into a new series of novels and see if it performs better on Amazon?
I hope that's good news.
What it means for you guys and this Patreon is that I'll probably be speeding up chapter releases a little, amping things up to 3/week and actively working on revisions as I go.
To which end:
Can you guys suggest what you'd prefer to see edited/fixed to tighten things up? From reading a novel POV, what would you suggest I focus on? Moving Yeoric's duel up is #1, but what else?
Regardless, thanks for your support and generosity. You guys are awesome, and I don't take you for granted.
Cheers!
Comments
Only one question which I would love addressed in a sentence or two - why didn’t Harold and crew go to the woman at the top of the leaderboard (was it Seraphim?) who is unaffiliated? It would make the most sense to be protected by her unless (I assume) she found out about his demonic links.
Lenora
2024-09-25 20:54:32 +0000 UTCI think for the most part not all too much would need to be changed for this to make for some great novel material. I think some of the “milestones” being moved around to close out some storylines would help with helping each of them stand alone. The duel really does not help push the story forward as it currently stands. I think it either needs to be more of a driving force for harald by increasing the stakes (maybe by adding additional confrontations showing how he is still out of haralds league - it seems almost implied that he will win the duel at this point) or moving the challenge to a later point as a smaller self contained story arc. Harald is already driven to improve as fast as possible by other factors making this a bit redundant. I think there are maybe too many open story threads running at the same time and keeping some of them more contained would help with with the pacing. I think you did a great job with that in immortal great souls where each book works towards the greater story but also has stands really well on its own by concluding open story lines and then starting new ones. Hope my word vomit here made some sense : )
Gimped197
2024-09-08 00:22:16 +0000 UTCYes, it’s a long one, sorry
Thomas Lelliott
2024-09-06 22:45:49 +0000 UTCMate, I’m enjoying it, I really am, I do think that things could have moved forwards abit, potentially just mashing a few chapters together even? Like it’s weird coz the pacing doesn’t bother me in one sense but then also in next breath it does. Look at Matt in path of ascension, there was and is times where it’s slow so I don’t think it’s purely a pacing issue. I’m loving the story and I don’t think you should pack in on here. I also think that you may be behind where you want to be on here in terms of patreons, but it still is early days realistically. Like I devoured your immortal great souls yet I didn’t have a clue about this. Ramping up works, it keeps its constant and if you need to say fuck, this doesn’t actually work later, generally speaking you can leave a little pre note saying “I thought I’d jiggle this etc”. Don’t give in because I like it but yea, I think it was always going to be hard transitioning from a book to a web series. But we’re still here and still commenting so I think it’s more a matter of tweaking than fully throwing everything out. Plus, I love reading we series when it’s really far in because it allows the series to be read like a book anyway. It just means that you’ll have people dropping in, paying, binging then dropping out. The bit you need to balance is the bit about keeping your constant sub’s intereststed. By doing what you’ve done and reaching out is a really good step imo because it allows us readers to feel like part of it, and allows you to get constructive feedback that will then increase your user base
Thomas Lelliott
2024-09-06 22:45:36 +0000 UTCI actually liked the Vic comments in this latest chapter as overcoming some of that mistrust.
Paul1441
2024-09-06 01:13:34 +0000 UTCBook one, we focus more on introducing characters, the city, dungeon, houses, politics, demons and we conclude with the duel and also add the shuddering.
Fast Lance
2024-09-04 09:49:19 +0000 UTCI like the story, but it's difficult to give advice on pacing unless I have an idea of where you are envisioning book 1 to end? Is the duel with Yeoric going to be the climax? I kind of like where it's going right now with the Yeoric power up arc, and I think a book would get rid of the concerns about it not happening early enough. But maybe some kind of conflict between the two of them could happen early to by the spark for Yeoric's training? Something like Harold being outmaneuvered into a ad hoc duel with one of Yeoric's party members and Yeoric also feels the pressure to push himself rather than just the house pushing him based on Harald's dungeon break actions. I'm also not sure what the plan is for the demon house task Harald was granted. But I vaguely remember it was a duel too? If so, I think either it should be pushed back until after the Yeoric duel (2 duels in the future and one with a vastly superior opponent robs the first of its impact, and feels a little repetitive). Or Harald should misunderstand and a duel between demons seed holders is just this guy trying to assassinate Harald in the dungeon (and maybe that is the plan). Could even be a turning point where Harald's solo diving catches up to him if this guy catches him in there alone and Harald barely survives through something crazy. I'm doing a lot of assuming with these ideas, maybe you planned on something crazy like Harald losing the fight with Yeoric. Rocky is party memorable because he ends up losing in the end, and an epic fight between the two with Yeoric technically winning but terrified as an almost dead Harald is raving "I'll kill you" and a last line of Your Ego Increases, Your Demon Seed stirs. Would be a surprise and could be cool. Anyway this ended up being a lot of random conjecture and rambling. I'm sure whatever you decide to do it will be surprising and good (just please no Vic and Sam romance, the pure girl melting the heart of the hardened playboy is too cliche).
Sickul
2024-09-04 08:28:46 +0000 UTCI love the Karsek parts too. It adds so much to the world when you step outside of the main character's point of view. I honestly don't really care about the dungeon delving; I like the politicking.
JustARandomPerson
2024-09-04 05:11:08 +0000 UTCWhen you get down to it, one person's navel gazing is another person's character development / important introspection. My taste is probably terrible for someone trying to market towards the "average" progression fantasy reader though 🤷 I look forward to the book chapters!
JustARandomPerson
2024-09-04 05:10:22 +0000 UTCI’m very happy with the story as it is. I think in the form of a novel the pacing and the slower aspects of the story would work just fine. I would happily read this as a series of novels. Don’t give up, and whatever you do, finish this story!!!
L Ko
2024-09-04 04:30:55 +0000 UTCYes - Harald's growth can still be fast (compared, say, to the likes of Lady Hammerfell who probably has been at it for decades if not longer) but take longer than the current 2-month push which may require a more liberal suspension of disbelief. Now you build this at your own pace while packing it with whatever your wonderful imagination brings. Doesn't have to be filler, just more solid worldbuilding. I will remind people that some of the most popular LITrpg's (heavy or light) can spend chapter upon chapter in stats and skill descriptions and yet can still pull in 7 figures (Zogarth claims this). So it's about giving the readers what they enjoy rather than calling it all filler. I know you'll get traction with this Story too. Word of mouth is very positive. We just need to get those eyeballs on it. I spread the word whenever I can.
ShivaMcTimber
2024-09-04 02:13:40 +0000 UTCI honestly don't think I'd change anything story wise. I can't imagine the story being different. Sometimes I'm annoyed at the characters, but I feel they're acting realistically with actual issues and character, rather than easily resolved things. The main factor for success for web serials on royalroad is quantity, and consistency. If you put out 5-7 chapters a week for a month, you'll get a ton of new readers -> subs. If you put out 5-7 chapters a week for months on end, with advertising, you get crazy growth. One of my favorite authors did 2 chapters a day for months and had crazy growth... Before burnout and medical issues. I think if you were only writing Thrones and put out at least 4-5 chapters a week, you'd see more growth. Typically for web serials, I think people expect it to be a bit more fast paced, but I like your style as is. I'd glad I don't have to look up a word every page anymore (like in Chronicles of the Black Gate).
Draddock
2024-09-04 00:56:13 +0000 UTCSolid advice!
Phil Tucker
2024-09-04 00:26:46 +0000 UTCYou're the best, Lorenz!
Phil Tucker
2024-09-04 00:26:28 +0000 UTCThis is all gold. I hadn't considered delaying Yeoric's challenge till later, but everything you said makes total sense. I could have Harald desiring revenge at first, and letting his anger fuel him, then have Yeoric challenge him later and giving Harald an official outlet for his vengeance. Excellent! I'm going to go look at my outline and now and play around with this major change. I think it has real potential - thanks so much for sharing. Survival would be the first book, Yeoric's duel the second, Sonora the third, then the demonic duel the fourth... hmm!!!!
Phil Tucker
2024-09-04 00:26:12 +0000 UTCMoving the duel up, quickening the politics and harrald joining a house and getting involved in more drama
Fast Lance
2024-09-04 00:13:48 +0000 UTCPhil I think you know by now I am thoroughly enjoying the story. Count on me to buy the Kindle and Audibles if/when they come out! Thanks for keeping us posted and thinking of us. :-)
Lorenz
2024-09-03 23:43:50 +0000 UTCI really love this story and the characters. I have given feedback in previous posts but I hope nothing of that added to any discouragement - you are doing a great job. DO NOT EVER GIVE UP ON THIS! Haha. As for serialization - I feel it's all about arcs and mini-finales interspersed with major arcs and this the key thing that is different from a novel structure. There is overlap in ongoing world, character and plot development but the first duel should be (have been) a shorter arc. The real obstacle has been getting Harald up to speed combat/power-wise - this is an essential part of his development, so it must not be shortened too much. The McGuffin of the duel is creating a mental pacing demand in the reader's mind; in other similar stories the authors may develop a soft antagonist or situation, but don't tie themselves so heavily to such deadlines, thus allowing time for the character's initial OP development sprints. I think of Primal Hunter, Defiance of the Fall, Randidly Ghosthound, Calamitous Bob, etc. Dramatic pressure is maintained by the character's initial learning curve and the need to survive. Harald's true character birth was through the initial betrayal and that shame alone should be his initial driver to change and progress - the duel was not a necessary incentive at this point (running across these dicks a little later would have been fine). So Harald's first arc should be survival, demonic setup and initial tempering - his tutorial. Harald should be solidly getting established when be runs into the former team of scumbags who initially set him on this path which triggers the small second arc culminating in the duel. This way, we aren't watching the pacing clock as we wait for the duel. Karsek would be wonderful to develop in the third arc - I agree his evolution slow things in the current pacing but it doesn't have to - don't lose it, just move it. I think joining the Countess Sonora is the third arc or the beginning of a major arc restoring her house. Then the second Demonic duel as a small next arc or larger depending on your existing ideas. I think you have it all there - it just may need a slight shuffle. Merely food for thought based on my own tastes and not a word of this is Do This or Do that, just my dumb thoughts. if you kept everything as is I would still read this at full price AND buy the eventual novelization. I want to keep you in the lifestyle to which you have become accustomed just so you keep writing;]
ShivaMcTimber
2024-09-03 23:22:09 +0000 UTCI want to say I actually love the Karsek parts more than anything so far, I think showing the different cultures in snippets is whats breaking up the monotony plus HOPEFULLY a big pay off when he actually throwds down as DreadRune or RuneThane or DreadThane? i cant fucking remember his class but it sounds badass
Joseph (Joey) Clarke
2024-09-03 21:56:25 +0000 UTCI’ve loved the story and would follow it till the end on here (or till I was broke). I understand people saying to shorten the timeframe or just the amount of content between things happening, and probably definitely should if it’s going to be published as a full book. But I do feel like the stuff was important and valuable to have. So I’m not much help on what to shorten, I’m more of the mindset of give me all the lore lol On the topic of you doing similar to Bryce and publishing drafts of chapters, I feel like that would probably be a HUGE success for you. Bryce has a pretty decent following on patreon I think, and when I was following it, I was paying 10 dollars I think for a single chapter maybe once every week or so (not to knock his method). If you published drafts of chapters ahead of time for immortal great souls, I think you’d get a decent turnout of people. IGS is time and again one of the most talked about books in the spaces I follow, and I feel like it doesn’t have the “controversy” that people have with Iron Prince. Personally I like the idea of IGS being published just as a book better, but that’s bc it’s one of the few series I follow that I can’t read ahead, and it preserves my sanity a bit that I scan still read traditional format books lol If you do publish advance chapters though, be prepared for people to throw their unnecessary two cents at you. I know it’s something Bryce has struggled with.
Eric Alex
2024-09-03 21:54:09 +0000 UTCLove it
Johnny
2024-09-03 20:55:06 +0000 UTCYep, def going to bring a weedwhacker to this party. Cheers!
Phil Tucker
2024-09-03 20:15:20 +0000 UTCI cant think of specific moments, but it just felt like the whole “are we really friends or not” aspect outstayed its welcome a tad
David Ford
2024-09-03 19:56:44 +0000 UTCHuh, good point! My hope is that Karsek in the novel will, as you said, not slow things down too much. But his taking up an entire 50% of a week's chapters definitely makes sense. And yes: lots more progression and dungeon delving coming up. In fact, we're in for some of the most intense delving coming soon :)
Phil Tucker
2024-09-03 19:32:16 +0000 UTCFantastic! I love the navel gazing, too. And I think it won't feel quite so egregious in novel-format. And yes, there's a good chance I'll be emulating Bryce and posting future book chapters here... :)
Phil Tucker
2024-09-03 19:31:07 +0000 UTCI'm def going to do an in-depth reread and go cutting stuff that feels excessive. Not too much, as I love my characters, but there are definitely some things that can be tightened up and moved along. Do any moments of suspicion later on stand out to you as when the MC is too suspicious of his friends?
Phil Tucker
2024-09-03 19:30:23 +0000 UTCThis is awesome news to hear and as others as well as yourself have said, there seems like a good amount of trimming to be done. The character growth, and just the buildup of the characters is great but a bit too repetive, same imo of reiterating certain points already discussed and rehashed. Sometimes that helps but personally if its mentioned like two or three times thats sufficient in most cases.
John Cerefice
2024-09-03 19:29:25 +0000 UTCHe is already a part of the story but Kársek while interesting has slowed things down a bit. As a novel it probably wouldn’t matter but as a web serial it just adds time between Harald chapters. My favorite parts are the progression and dungeon delving
Jake Swartz
2024-09-03 19:27:24 +0000 UTCThat's great news. I might be in the minority, but I actually love all the navel gazing. I feel like it adds a lot to the characters. I'd also love if you posted early chapters of the next Gods of the Game here 😁 Kind of like how bryce O'Connor does for iIron Prince Also posting this series as a novel on Amazon is a wonderful idea. I feel like you always get really good sales there. Your style lends itself much more towards full-length novels than it does to Royal Road bite size chapters.
JustARandomPerson
2024-09-03 18:59:40 +0000 UTCI think a lot of the issues would be fixed by trimming the fat tbh. For example the lack of trust between the MC and his friends was interesting at first, but started to become a bit played out as it dragged out.
David Ford
2024-09-03 18:54:26 +0000 UTC
