[Salvos] 737. Sally (Removed for KU)
Added 2024-11-11 17:32:56 +0000 UTC(Removed for KU)
Comments
9 days without a new chapter, my mind has succumbed to the corruption. I am no longer sane. Need new chapter, PLEASE. In all seriousness, take as much time as you need if it gets us this level of quality work.
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-20 21:21:28 +0000 UTCI'm kind of in between here. Sure, the last time we could check, when a clone activated a GS, it was used up and Salvos had to wait for the cooldown to pass. However, that GS point to [Divine Essence] had to do something. Let's assume it allowed a clone to trigger a GS with a separate cooldown. It's only a guess though, since we don't know. What we do know, however, is that Salvos is much higher level than we remember her. She also has one Divine/Corrupted Skill more, and a GS more. Let's assume she's level 190. That means four GS points in subspecies alone, and probably as much for her Class, because the assumption is that if she learned a new Skill for her Class, it levelled a lot in the process. So let's assume over lvl 175 in her Class and four more points, and I'm being conservative, because the way things were going, her Class was catching up with her subspecies. Eight GS points is a lot, and assuming everything maxed out at 3, she needed mere 3 points for that. We don't know that either - we only know that [Flames] maxed out at 3, and that might've been an exception. Also, there's another GS, and she would have points for that too, unless stuff maxes out at 5, in which case she would be a point short for her normal four and 3 points short for that one, meaning 4. However, if we assume she's lvl 195 and Class is at 195 too, that's like 13 GS points, which is exactly what she would need to bring the fifth GS to 5, assuming she didn't get it at her evolution and needed to max it out beforehand. Also assuming that's the point where Sally synced up, all of her GS, except [Flames], are much higher level than we know. We know that the [Claw] didn't do much against the Matriarch, and we know that [The World...] could be torn through. Other than that, we don't know what all those levels did, but considering the GS didn't fare that spectacularly, I feel pretty safe assuming they are not levelled to 5.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-20 21:00:43 +0000 UTCMhh I would expect that Sally can use all skills independent from Salvos. When an ordinary clone used [claw of corruption] it put the same skill on cooldown for Salvos. But it would kind of bad if Sally could do the same without direct connection. Resulting in Salvos being unable to use any skills Sally already used. On the other hand [The World of My Mind] is a passive skill so there would not be any conflict if it was the same pocket space, since Salvos could still freely use the skill.
Tim
2024-11-20 20:24:41 +0000 UTCAs for the 3d part of the [World of My Mind], the height of Mt Everest is 8848m, which is about 5.5 miles. This means you can fit Mt Everest inside it and still have tens of kilometers of air above it. It's that big.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-20 18:42:40 +0000 UTC[The World of My Mind] is "dozens of miles" across and Sally can call upon it across the planes. Is that lvl 3? What does that actually mean, is it the second instance, or is there only one, shared between Salvos and her clones? This is a pretty large space; not quite as big as a plane of Nexeus but I bet there are whole kingdoms in the Mortal Realm that are smaller than that. You can have tens of thousands of people comfortably living there, or millions if you make it into a crowded city. Also, it's not said that this is its maximum extent. The "dozens of miles" is its planar diameter, and it's probably 3d. I'd like Clayton to survive so that we could see this fight from his perspective. There were energies deployed that surpass everything he's ever experienced, and Sally growing in power must have been quite a sight for him. The point where she started matching the Matriarch in power would leave quite a magical footprint, and them rifting across the planes and tearing up the world must have been worse than anything Regnorex and his minions produced. Also, that final blast would have been something to him.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-20 18:28:33 +0000 UTCMaybe Rachel is bad luck
Travis Brown
2024-11-20 05:12:31 +0000 UTCI do agree with the theory of Sally being more than body and memories, after all, she was the best! Even if we didn't actually spend that much time with her, I'm very attached. So, maybe to some extent it's cope, but I hope we get her back, it feels like she has so much left to show. Plus her character development got me in the feels. This can't be the end of her. I do wonder how Salvos will feel after she gets Sally's memories if she does, and more importantly what is Salvos' side like. The chapter was so good, and it left so many questions unanswered. Though I'd be kind of surprised if the matriarch actually died considering she is a primordial, but I guess we'll see. In the end, I just want to see Sally again 😔
Azrie
2024-11-20 04:16:59 +0000 UTCThe implications of the future are terrifying and also exciting. I seriously can't wait to see Salvos' side, although I'm incredibly curious about how it'll be written!
Azrie
2024-11-20 04:05:30 +0000 UTCThe chapter was a banger, too bad Sally had to pay the price for it to be so good 😭
Azrie
2024-11-20 04:03:12 +0000 UTCIt made me emotional ;-;
Azrie
2024-11-20 04:02:23 +0000 UTCIf Salvos got such a skill that would be giga based
Azrie
2024-11-20 04:00:51 +0000 UTCI just realized: the broodmother was doing a version of the Bane darkness monologue
ArcaneOverride
2024-11-19 20:49:46 +0000 UTCHey Melas! How are you doing? Can we have a new chapter? Pretty please? Especially after a banger chapter like this!
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-18 23:50:49 +0000 UTCYeah, but those week long delays are a real buzz killer. :(
Danijel Turina
2024-11-18 20:40:15 +0000 UTCActually, it might be the other way around. Manos dealt the finishing blow to near-dead Jofis in order to steal the kill and much of the experience for himself. And he abused Salvos' misunderstanding to get as much as possible out of the situation and add extra layers of safety to ensure the rebellion is thoroughly stomped out... That is to say, killing Jofis might have been the true act of betrayal in Manos' part.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-18 15:19:13 +0000 UTCUm, what? GS are always bold. Divine skills are only bold when they are used, not in the stat sheet. Or am I missing something here?
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-18 15:14:08 +0000 UTCReading this and imagining the implications makes me super excited for the next chapters!!!
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-18 15:10:28 +0000 UTCNo, Belphegor being a demon of sloth was only a fan guess based on the Belphegor from our myths. It was a red herring, as it has already long been revealed that the Belphegor in this story is instead a demon of Lust.
Sancturillore -- Élie Simard-Wallot
2024-11-18 07:31:06 +0000 UTC@Borys_Wisniewski iirc salvos was offered a class/subspecies(I forgot which) centered around the devil, they are both lesser gods though salvos is a tier below, edithe and daniel are probably too high level in both their classes but valda and rachel aren't too high level in their primary class and they don't even have secondaries yet so I'd say a high chance they get one offered at least before they become elites
Brandon14754
2024-11-18 06:32:58 +0000 UTC"I very much hope this fight contributes to Salvos' evolution!" - this is one of those 1-in-10000 years fights that become the cornerstone of history books. Sure, in the Netherworld that's called Tuesday, but in the Mortal Realm they had nothing like it ever since Alexander fought Regnorex there. It's also the magnitude of a win where a Primordial would gain multiple levels and a Title.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-17 13:33:12 +0000 UTCI think it was mentioned somewhere that you only get one evolution option at Primordial, but I'm not sure; it was definitely mentioned that you get two options at Primeval, and since both Salvos and Haec got three, it's obviously not a hard rule. As for that, we know there's a level cap at 250. What we don't know is how much of a stat boost does a Primordial evolution get you, what exactly does it do to your Skills, and is there a stat cap somewhere? 999, perhaps? Salvos has Agility at 720 and Wisdom at 750 with Divine Essence on already (at lvl 174) so it's no wonder Sally managed to match/exceed the Matriarch in her top stats in the end, if she's around lvl 200 and with all sorts of bonuses. If there's a stat cap as well, she might be approaching it; not so much by levelling, but more with title and GS bonuses.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-17 08:24:52 +0000 UTCI wonder if she’ll get one or two evolutions options
Travis Brown
2024-11-17 03:18:43 +0000 UTCI very much hope this fight contributes to Salvos' evolution!
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-16 23:48:43 +0000 UTC[Corrupted Dragon's Breath] sounds like a class skill Salvos might get. But she added divinity from her subspecies. Ergo divie class skill.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-16 23:43:18 +0000 UTCI'm still trying to figure out what evolution-based grand skills and stress-based grand skills have in common when it comes to what they represent mentally. They are somehow connected to the agent's true nature. Or is it that each evolution unlocks a new skill tier and elevates one's specialty to that tier, while other skills are at least pulled along to one tier below. And grand skills only differ from normal skills in that they surpass a certain threshold relating to the system?
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-16 23:39:08 +0000 UTCI'm itching to find out certain things now. For instance, I hope this is some kind of an answer to that thing Samuel said, that one needs to become something more in order to become a Primordial. Well, there you go, Salvos is indeed something more, one being with two persons/souls, and they are both an epitome of loving-kindness. Also, apparently, they are both doing some kind of a self-sacrifice for the sake of others, more-less at the same time. Does this add up to the super-magnificence of Salvos' presumed evolution? Also, let's assume the Matriarch is dead, because from the way they fought, Sally was actually ahead in some stats, behind in others, but they were much closer than one would expect, similar to how Salvos was mostly ahead of the Ancient Centinel of the Gulf when she was lvl 127, and the AC was lvl 162. I would expect the level differential now was around 40, but Salvos has so many stat boosters it was a draw, until she fired off that GS. I think that was a clean kill. However, it is also an incredible feat, and if, let's assume, Salvos was unable to come because she was stuck in some limbo, this victory would bring so much experience it could actually give her a boost and push her to the other side with some amazing options/outcomes. So, I'm itching to find out whether I'm in the right ballpark.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-15 21:23:38 +0000 UTCWhen the situation was initially set up, I tried to envision a winning scenario, and it was always a powerful outside force arriving to break the siege, because diplomacy was never an option. Sure, I hoped, for the plot's sake, that Rachel will be able to convince an Ancient Centinel to bring the Matriarch to her so that they could talk, and that things about the Devil, Salvos being the target and Salvos being a real Princess would be revealed to Humans, because it would be fun to see their reactions, and the barrier would still be there in case of talks going wrong. However, I never imagined the Matriarch being this high levelled, which means the barrier was still standing only because she never actually struck at it. As for the outside force, I thought Salvos alone would not be enough, and I hoped for multiple Primordials coming to aid her, like Samuel, Belphegor and possibly Focalor and others. Then, after the inevitable victory, they could talk to the Humans and explain the actual situation of the world. Obviously, that's not how it went.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-15 20:41:19 +0000 UTC"If Clayton chose to support her instead of locking her up they might just have pulled off a truce." - I'm afraid not. No amount of diplomacy or tact could've helped them with this one. Rachel managed to talk to the Ancient and lesser Centinels, but not only did they decide nothing, they also didn't even know why they were there. The Matriarch was there for Salvos, but apparently couldn't tell her and Sally apart. Theoretically, they could've sacrificed Sally to the Matriarch and hoped she would just leave, but I find that not just unlikely, but impossible. She would have wanted to destroy the Mavos academy, if merely to set an example, or due to pure malice. No, there was never a possibility of a negotiated settlement, because the stink came from the top, and it wasn't a misunderstanding, it was a blood feud. What happened there is that Sally allowed Rachel to check her theory, but when it failed she first pulled off a rescue, and then finished this fight on her own terms, instead of waiting for the barrier to fail and then have the same fight, but with more people in danger and needing saving. The only thing that could have been improved is doing it in a more organised and less chaotic manner, for instance having Clayton already on standby. However, since they didn't know that the sync with Salvos would be triggered, they couldn't know that victory was a possibility, and Sally was only there to try to escape with Rachel once her plan inevitably went south. About the possibility of sacrificing Sally: not only would it have been immoral, it would also have been a very bad idea tactically, because for all they knew Sally was the no2 fighter there, besides Clayton, and the Matriarch would have attacked them regardless, leaving them without a major asset in evacuation and defence. So, they basically didn't have any better options, and they really lucked out with this one, because of the sync.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-15 20:07:26 +0000 UTCHoly moly Melas, you cooked like a madman in this one. What a chapter! Now then, time to speculate wildly about everything that is happening because I simply have to get this out of my system :D Rachel is in for a rough awakening, literally. I still think diplomacy was the best option mavos academy had. If Clayton chose to support her instead of locking her up they might just have pulled off a truce. Alas it was her naive approach which caused Sallys "death". Worst case would be if only her memories are transmitted to Salvos. I hope she returns to Salvos but retains her ego and can be called forth again. Regarding the matriarch, at lvl 238 and empowered by corruption I would be very surpised to see her defeated. My money is on her being forced to use some kind of rebirth-skill. Let's not forget that Samuel stated death becomes kind of a trivial concept past the level 200+ evolution. Revival seems to be childsplay for these entities. That part about Salvos seemingly sacrificing herself during the use of the same grand skill which Sally appears to have used in her "last moments" got me especially curious. We know Salvos values herself above all else so there has to be some kind of failsafe. Maybe rebirth into one of her clones, but at a great cost?
Salvos Enjoyer
2024-11-15 19:17:26 +0000 UTCWhat's actually interesting is how many Humans do have Grand Skills and reach high levels, considering how short-lived they are, and how little motivation they have to use their short lifespan in as extreme ways as are conducive to that kind of growth. Humans seem to be like a diesel engine in a car: everything works great until you find a limit somewhere around 180. :) Basically, only a hundred or so in a generation reach 150, and only a handful exceed 160. Apparently, only two, maybe three are over 170. Only the Watcher has a realistic chance of reaching 200, and the only other two in history that managed that were Heroes, which means Aliens. Basically, the combination of risk being optional, and life span being limited, seems to be more of an issue with Humans than anything soul-related. For instance, the Human companion of Salvos levelled as fast as she, when they were with her and felt peer pressure to keep pace. However, when they were not with her and risk became optional, their pace suddenly dropped closer to a Human baseline, but still high enough that they were seen as crazy by normal Humans.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-15 11:42:12 +0000 UTCBut you see how many more demon's have grand skills verses how many humans do. The watcher has 4 GS, Clayton has 3, Orgath has 2, Helena has 1 we know of, Mary Gladius had 2. GS are manifestations of the soul overcoming limits. Demon's literally have to fight or they die an cease to exist, only human Adventurers choose to put their lives in constant danger and strive to grow stronger achieve GS. Furthermore since demons evolve to become more whole and more themselves they have a more maleable soul or essence, which would lead to a better chance of their soul growing and developing GS.
Matthew Sekel
2024-11-15 05:13:37 +0000 UTC"didn’t matter for no" -> didn’t matter for now; typo.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-14 13:03:27 +0000 UTCClayton did really well against those Ancient Centinels, using that Divinity death ray. I guess one should not underestimate a century of experience with shaping magic into spells and skills. Where Salvos relies on instinct, he probably does some equation, and has whole books of spells and ways to approach mana memorised. I think that makes him much more dangerous and effective than his mere level would suggest. I hope he made it safely behind the barrier. Those Centinels are both the ideal enemy for him, and the worst case. Ideal because they are stupid and unskilled and rely on rudimentary strikes. Worst case because they can overwhelm him with numbers and attack from all directions, while his combat form works best for single opponents. I think Helena would be a better fit for them - she's good at fighting armies across an area, not so much a single opponent; someone like Belzu was a nightmare for her, because he was hitting all of her weak points at once - curses, illusions, elusive target, single opponent that masks his exact location, and is also extremely skilled and intelligent. However, against those Centinels she and Clayton would complement each other and would've easily wiped them all out.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-14 09:41:37 +0000 UTC"[Corrupted Divine Dragon's Breath] is just a divine class skill. " - oh, wait a sec. It's actually more than that. As far as I can tell, this is the first Skill she learned that is an explicit combination of Divine and Corrupted. I think combining the two gave her an idea, she experimented and this was the result.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-14 08:32:19 +0000 UTCCorrupted Apprentice sounds so... undignified... for someone at Salvos' level and Class level. Replacing Draconic Apprentice with Corrupted Apprentice sounds like a degradation, not an advancement. Sure, it's powerful, but it sounds pathetic, especially considering that the alternatives were Imperial Dragonguard (which also doesn't sound that great) and Forerunner of Space and Time. None of that of course sounds like an endgame Class for Salvos, which is why I keep thinking what *is* the endgame. Obviously, she needs to get it to 200. However, also obviously, she needs to solve the corruption problem - at least by figuring out how to heal it, what kind of energies need to be aligned in what way to un-corrupt something; not necessarily by going around and uncorrupting all of Nexeus yet. However, we don't even know that the Nexeus can be saved. Ana the Worldwalker certainly hinted that it can. The last we left her, she was at lvl 174 and class lvl 158. Her Class is catching up; can it in fact completely catch up by 200? Because, what we saw from Sally in the end didn't look like 190.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-14 08:23:50 +0000 UTC[Corrupted Divine Dragon's Breath] is just a divine class skill. Salvos currently has 6 essences/attributes: demonic, fire and divine in her subspecies plus spacial, draconic and corruption in her class. [Corrupted Divine Dragon's Breath] just draws from divine, draconic and corruption essence (with fire attribute, but I don't think that is connected to her subspecies fire attribute before her primordial evolution). As a [Corrupted Apprentice], Salvos didn't loose her draconic essence, why would developing this skill require a class change? Especially since it is corrupted. The "corruption problem" is only truely solved, when all corruption is removed from the multiverse, everyone that knows how to create it or has an appropriate skill is dead and all means of creating it are gone. In other words: The corruption problem is only really solved with the end of the multiverse. Since the story won't continue after that point, corruption is always a danger. So I don't see a reason to side-evolve to weasel around the corruption. [Claw of Corruption] can become [Hand of God] [Worldbreak] cane become [Godkiller]
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-14 08:04:41 +0000 UTCWhat happens if she solves the corruption problem? She obviously hasn't solved it yet, because Sally is using the corrupted skills, but let's assume it happens at some point? I would expect her class to change accordingly, as well as her skills. What about [Claw of Corruption] and [Worldbrealk]? Do they become [Claw of Divine Dragon] and [Worldheal]? What a mess.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 21:29:00 +0000 UTCI keep thinking about Salvos' class in regard to all this. The [Corrupted Divine Dragon's Breath] skill would imply that her class should be Divine Dragon, if not for the corruption? It's certainly a fitting upgrade to [Draconic Apprentice], unlike this [Corrupted Apprentice] thing that looks all wrong. Is it possible for her class to somehow change as she evolves to Primordial, even before normal order? This unfinished business with the corruption strikes me as something that needs to be addressed.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 21:07:17 +0000 UTCYou might be surprised that I agree that Sally is more than body and memories. As is every one of Salvos' clone. And while we don't mind the other clones dying since they don't have the time to grow distinct from Salvos, we do care about Sally. And I don't think this is the end for her. Our brains are physical, so it is irreversible if our body is destroyed. But Sally's body being destroyed does not necessarily destroy her magical brain equivalent and the "soul" therein. That can be transfered and safeguarded in Salvos' body until it can be set free again.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 21:01:11 +0000 UTCSally is more than body and memories; it feels like there's an actual soul there.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 20:30:41 +0000 UTCI would find it regrettable if he betrays her. It's like finally finding your only hope for a normal life and wasting it.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 20:28:23 +0000 UTCThere have been so many ambiguities with Manos he should change his name to Schroedinger. :)
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 20:08:53 +0000 UTCHe cam be deciving other demons he want to kill and making a scene with Salvosnin order to let their guard down
Użytkownik Przeciętny
2024-11-13 19:17:16 +0000 UTC[I am Sally] would be grand :)
Użytkownik Przeciętny
2024-11-13 19:16:02 +0000 UTC"Corruption immunity?" - I expect Salvos to solve the problem.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 17:12:26 +0000 UTCI have almost 100% certainty it’s just some sort of ruse. Manos really could have just killed them all after they fought Jofis, + i don’t think melas would introduce a plot point like this through Sally. So kind of metagaming it
Jaiden Gabrani
2024-11-13 17:04:05 +0000 UTCSalvos could recreate Sally if they are connected
Użytkownik Przeciętny
2024-11-13 16:59:54 +0000 UTCCorruption immunity?
Użytkownik Przeciętny
2024-11-13 16:56:34 +0000 UTCI think she's dead as a doorknob; however, I'd like Clayton to stand by with his obliteration GS just in case. But that explosion didn't look like something you survive, unless the energy for it is coming from you and it simultaneously regenerates you, which is the hope I have for Sally's survival.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 16:44:23 +0000 UTC"The baby drakes would get a title similar to the devils daughter" - huh, you're right, they are kind of an exception. Let's see how that's handled.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 16:39:14 +0000 UTCThe baby drakes would get a title similar to the devils daughter
Travis Brown
2024-11-13 16:37:39 +0000 UTCI can’t give it obliterating the brood mother until confirmation I’m hoping she at least heavily injured her, killing is a little too hopeful
Travis Brown
2024-11-13 16:34:54 +0000 UTCTalking about Titles, I can assume Salvos is going to get some amazing ones after this. Let's just make a list: Saviour/Liberator of the Mavos Academy Liberator of the Netherworld (for overthrowing Regnorex) Hero Saviour of the Nexeus (if she manages to subvert the ritual that would have broken the world)
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 16:33:11 +0000 UTC"Would be interesting if that created unique class advancements for the companions" - no, I don't think she would want to direct/control them, she was always fine with whatever they chose to be. She would just want to protect them.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 16:23:30 +0000 UTCWould be interesting if that created unique class advancements for the companions
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-13 16:13:29 +0000 UTCVery close, considering how much she levelled and that she got one Divine Skill and one Grand Skill capable of obliterating a lvl 238.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 15:55:03 +0000 UTCAnd there might not even be any corruption at that point, if she manages to solve the problem. Also, there might be a messaging skill similar to that which Clayton and Helena use, and/or the ability to get a clone of Salvos to help you. Although, that might be impractical. Definitely something protective, though. She'll be mortified when she realises how many of her companions were in mortal danger unbeknownst to her.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 15:48:42 +0000 UTCThat's not really the question, is it? The question is how close they were to succeeding.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 15:44:11 +0000 UTCNot too dissimilar from what I suggested a while ago. But I think [Realm] would be better if it was passive and made the immediate surroundings of the user count as Salvos' domain, allowing Salvos to arbitrarily deploy herself, clones and companions to each other. I also think a flat immunity is too powerful, I think it will be resistance.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 15:41:39 +0000 UTCConsidering that Sally's level eventually grew to the ballpark of 200, whoever tried to kill her didn't live to tell their grandchildren about it. :)
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 15:31:36 +0000 UTCWe'll see what the situation will be. If the ambush includes a space mage, debuffs and such, maybe even someone capable of inhibiting resurrection, his chances of slaying Salvos are bigger than during the Jofis fight, especially given the insight he gained. In either situation, Salvos won't obediently die.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 15:27:35 +0000 UTC(Companion of Salvos) +10 to [Vitality] +10 to [Strength] +10 to [Endurance] +10 to [Wisdom] +10 to [Agility] Bonuses: *You get to keep your current Title and all its Bonuses and Skills. General Skill [Title Skill: Corruption Immunity] General Skill [Title Skill: Protection of the Goddess] General Skill [Title Skill: Realm of the Goddess] [Protection] activates a very powerful personal shield. [Realm] instantly rifts you to [The World of My Mind]. :)
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 15:25:17 +0000 UTCCome on! Salvos may display virtue and she may display "love", but her "love" certainly isn't altruistic but possessive. If its the seven sins or the seven virtues, their extremes are equally represented among mental disorders. A mentally healthy person knows to express all their sinful and virtuous urges in moderation. I hope Salvos never has to defy her nature and loose her pride. What I do support is her becoming a [Proud Primordial Demon] instead of a [Primordial Demon of Pride], representing her mastery over her urges.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 15:07:56 +0000 UTCI was just thinking: when Salvos evolves, I would expect all her companions to get a Title.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 15:07:06 +0000 UTCI guess it's possible. Stupid as all hell, but possible. Of course, as a reward for being so cute, he gets to die.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 15:05:32 +0000 UTCWell, when he first encountered Salvos, he had no clue where the rebellion is. Then he followed them but Manos might not have seen the necessary margin of safety to kill everyone with just Sicar. So he lures Salvos into a trap. I think there's no real issue with his reasoning here. In fact it speaks for him that he doesn't underestimate Salvos!
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 14:43:16 +0000 UTCI think something will happen with that skill at her Primordial evolution, and what Sally just did might contribute to that. The end result might be clones that are parallel incarnations, basically identical copies of the original, with all the same properties, and while a single one of them endures, she will survive.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 13:58:34 +0000 UTCWhile we're at it, I think Salvos will need to do something about the corruption in general, because Nexeus is not in that great a condition, and she can't leave Samuel and Belphegor in that pit forever. Also, Trico. :(
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 13:56:13 +0000 UTCI don't see her condition as an improvement in any way. She's mostly hatred and anger and instinct, with little to no reason, and probably no good qualities of any kind. Honestly, she's 10% off compared to a corrupted hellspace; a mere destructive force of nature. I don't know how much of that is due to corruption, but considering how the corrupted entities just attack everything and are purely destructive, the difference is negligible. Salvos, on the other hand, is 100% in control of herself, she's just using the corruption skills and making a mess with it. Sure, it's possible that the Matriarch was always that terrible a person and it's not due to corruption, but Samuel said that she used to be nice when she was younger, so there's actually some evidence for my line of thought.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 13:51:53 +0000 UTCMatriarch Centinel might be more attuned to and in control of corruption than current Salvos in many ways, tbh...
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 13:38:13 +0000 UTCThe brood mother is obviously corrupted but can she hold off her corruption like have a high resistance, cause I don’t think she has loss control she’s just very pissed off
Travis Brown
2024-11-13 13:23:21 +0000 UTCIn the status sheet they are always bold. Other than that case, GS are only in bold if they are divine.
Gonvas
2024-11-13 13:21:41 +0000 UTCYes, I think the forest there should look like the Tunguska meteor impact site or the Bikini atoll after Castle Bravo (having in mind all the corruption that was deployed during the fight, and the fact that the Matriarch is a radioactive mutated cockroach). Humans need to make a memorial site there, because that's the place where a God fought to save their lives. And Marie needs to be fired, so that she can be a bigoted callous dishrag somewhere else.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 12:20:18 +0000 UTCMy question is: Will she be the blueprint for all future clones or will she return as a special clone? I hope all clones are raised to Sally's level but Sally's conscious can elevates one of them a step further.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 12:12:40 +0000 UTCIf the matriarch's ego is weakened, Sally&Salvos can pack all the remains and evironmental damage into [The World of my Mind] and that'll be that. The question is what limits apply there.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 12:10:22 +0000 UTC"Immortality through clones" - it's actually likely, considering what an upgrade this skill had at 150 evolution, and projecting what is likely to happen at 200.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 12:09:43 +0000 UTCWell, aren't there (blue?) trees in the Spirit Realm? There are also areas in the Netherworld where the Mortal Realm bleeds through IIRC. But you're probably right and given your comment about many of Salvos' battles being unseren, I changed my mind ;) In fact, this battle should leaves a lasting scar near Mavos, given its level!
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 12:06:41 +0000 UTCPersonally I think it'd be kindness and not love, but apart from that I fully agree. Also, what are the conditions for two sins (Haec), is it perhaps that the emotions needed for both are at an equal level? Then it would make sense why its so rare, literally never seen (or atleast recorded) before Haec
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-13 12:04:30 +0000 UTCIt'll say it as often as I have to: (functional) Immortality through clones ;)
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 12:02:15 +0000 UTCYes, I think it's actually likely that her dominant trait, as parsed by the System, will change at her evolution, from Pride to Love.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 11:49:22 +0000 UTCI understand how you are portraying the changes to her character as personal growth; I just want to mention that we have seen examples of how actions/emotions change when a sin/virtue is changed and I think its safe to assume that vice versa is also true. If the actions/emotions changr then the sin/virtue will follow suit. Atleast in my opinion.
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-13 11:38:02 +0000 UTC"So is it fair to assume she gained a Virtue" - something like that, but it's hard to say. If you could plot a function of her pride and her loving-kindness, it's not that the former was initially at 100% and the latter was at zero. She was always a kind person, ever since being a demon larva with Haec. Also, she was always smart enough to not get into deadly stuff because of pride. Obviously, she was mentally and emotionally far more balanced than others would give her credit for. However, as she grew in power, her pride seems to have first exploded, and then subsided/normalised, as if there was an emotional hunger that was satiated. Her loving-kindness, however, grew steadily throughout; she developed compassion, and that developed exponentially with [Truth Divination], and she found names for her feelings once she could perceive the feelings of others directly without miscommunication. But at some point, I don't exactly know when, but I think since [Truth Divination] with Samuel, her loving-kindness became her dominant trait. It's not like pride is no longer there, but it's absolutely secondary to love and in service to it. The change was gradual throughout the series and stronger at some point, but if you read the first few books now the difference is jarring. Sure, she developed virtues, but I'm not sure it can be formalised like that. It's more that her soul grew and matured, and is now a force that dominates her entire existence.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 11:21:35 +0000 UTCSo is it fair to assume she gained a Virtue, like the virtue of kindness?
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-13 10:11:31 +0000 UTCI also remembered now that racial Grand Skills seem to be a thing. For instance, all Hellabominations seem to have a common evasive GS, [Abominable Instincts] or whatever it's called. Cerberus of Hell also all seem to have a common fire-related GS, according to Jofis. So, the assumption that GS are most commonly earned at Primeval/Primordial evolutions, and only exceptionally otherwise, seems to make sense.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 09:24:22 +0000 UTCThere's another reason I just thought of, that makes it look like that might be the case. She used to overcome fear with pride; she would pump herself up and yell "I am Salvos" or "this is Sparta" or whatever. Now, that no longer seems to be the case, and Sally for instance overcame fear with love.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 08:51:06 +0000 UTC"So that would make sense how demon's and spirits could learn GS more easily than say humans" - It's an interesting possibility, but I have to say no, because there's no reason to assume that Demons learn GS more easily in general. In fact, considering how short lived Humans are compared to Demons, they have an incredible number of high-level individuals with Grand Skills. When a Demon 15000 years old has multiple GS and lvl 200, that's only to be expected, but Clayton is 100 years old, is lvl 170+ and has 3 Grand Skills. Hell, Orgaf has almost as much and he's half his age. We also have evidence of Demons who just hide for centuries and basically do nothing and level very slowly. No, the actual conclusion to draw here is that if an individual is brave, strong and insane enough to push their limits and fight close to death, and happen not to die, this exponentially increases the likelihood of them getting Grand Skills. In fact, it can be trained, the way Haec did with Dukes and Duchesses - he basically took a number of Archdemons and had them fight close to death, in order for them to get Grand Skills, and the ones who survived this ordeal were sent to the Mortal Realm to wreak havoc and Salvos had to kill them.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 08:35:03 +0000 UTCI wonder how it will work for Salvos, since corruption normally blocks immortality (or at least that's how she re-mortalised Jofis, and that's how the Hydra died), and she has a corrupted Class.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 08:26:46 +0000 UTCNone of this makes any sense. If he wanted to kill her, doing it before killing Jofis and when he had an advantage would have been safer. If he wanted to find the base first, sure, he could have turned then and there and wiped everybody out. Also, his last statement is such an emulation of a stereotypical melodrama villain it looks rehearsed. I have no idea what we saw there, it doesn't make any practical sense, and extrapolating from it is likely to only increase error.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 08:24:21 +0000 UTCUnlikely, but Divine skills are also written in bold.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 08:19:59 +0000 UTCWell, considering how much corruption was released and how many rifts were opened, mostly by the Matriarch and mostly in a very disorderly and magically inefficient manner, I expect they might be having serious problems with the corruption there now. That stuff won't just go away. Not to mention the corpse of the Matriarch, which was as bad as a corrupted hellspace. I foresee a corruption zombie-storm saying "ḾῨ ĆНĮĻḐṚẾŅ..."
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 08:18:19 +0000 UTC"I suspect Reggie's castle is closer to the explosion than Mavos" - now you're just making it up. Not only is there no evidence for this, there is in fact strong evidence against it, as there are no trees in the Netherworld, and I doubt they are in the Spirit Plane either: "And Sally was sent flying back into a nearby forest. A giant crater opened up where she landed, as the shockwave from her crash caused all the trees in the forest to collapse from the impact. "
Danijel Turina
2024-11-13 08:04:26 +0000 UTCWell, a few of his his hunters already died to Salvos. And she survived Venas' GS. Isn't it best to isolate and kill her with as much force as possible? And I don't think Manos waited around for her to get new GSs, I think his betrayal is what gets her the new GS.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-13 06:45:41 +0000 UTCRemember back in the Treasures of Alaxander book where Salvos was talking to Avaritia about how divinity, skills and GS were connected to a demon's essence or soul. So that would make sense how demon's and spirits could learn GS more easily than say humans, elves, cyclops, and dwarves. Since GS are the manifestation of overcoming limits it would make sense that the harder the fight and more you push yourself the closer you get to learning a GS.
Matthew Sekel
2024-11-13 04:43:34 +0000 UTCMost like when the skill is used again sally will return
Travis Brown
2024-11-13 02:29:16 +0000 UTCIs corrupted divine dragons breath a grand skill
Travis Brown
2024-11-13 02:28:28 +0000 UTCI wanna trust Manos cause him knowing where the deserter are he could have wiped them out effortlessly, maybe even get enough exp to get 2 lvls worths but instead he was around enough for salvos to get 1 or 2 more grand skill
Travis Brown
2024-11-13 02:25:08 +0000 UTCAll right, I changed my mind. Sally better went back near Mavos and ripped a hole in the sky, one so massive and persistent that the school experiences an eclipse each noon for at least 10 years! ;)
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 23:43:12 +0000 UTCThat leaves us with Primordials commonly being immortal in the sense that they have no limited life span. Everything else is up to individual skills.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 23:22:39 +0000 UTC[Corrupted Divine Dragons Breath] might be a divine skill, I give you that. In fact that increases the probability that Sally returns to contribute to Salvos' evolution! That increases my hope that [Salvo of Vanity] will properly evolve!
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 23:20:03 +0000 UTCI suspect Reggie's castle is closer to the explosion than Mavos, tbh. Sally used [Riftwalk] after all instead of just opening her world
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 23:18:06 +0000 UTCI absolutely hate the idea of Salvos loosing her sin of pride. But I can see why she doesn't appear sinful. A while ago, I noticed that the sins/virtues are fundamentally similar in many instances. So I came up with atomic sins/virtues, that form the vertices of a regular shape. Sins: Ignorance, Apathy, Selfishness. Virtues: Empathy, Curiosity, Ambition. I think Pride sits between Ignorance and Apathy, right below Ambition. And I would say, that Salvos is fine with being ignorant and apathetic in her ambitions. ...at least when it comes to strangers. The whole thing gains another layer of complexity when you consider that her companions are her pride. That's why I think it's reasonable to assume that Manos hurt/killed someone to invoke Salvos' wrath.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 23:16:51 +0000 UTCI don't know how universal that is, either. Paimon the Slave was killed only once and permanently, although she was a Primordial. The Beast was apparently never killed. The Great Agarus is killed every now and then, but keeps resurrecting like a tardigrade. There doesn't seem to be a very solid rule, other than Primordials being very hard to kill. Also, Alexander was killed once and that was it. Matriarch Centinel was never killed. They apparently don't age, and are high-levelled and very hard to kill, but we don't know if they resurrect. I hope not. :)
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 23:13:28 +0000 UTCExtending from my tool/limb analogy, I would argue normal skills are what you can do, while Grand Skills are what you are or what you aspire to be.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 22:56:54 +0000 UTCJofis died just once - he was just very hard to truly kill, but Great Agurus' death likely did show a kill notification to the Beast.
Alexey Gladkich
2024-11-12 22:56:54 +0000 UTCThe question is: How does that even apply to normal primordials? Is their ego just so strong that it can survive some time without a body? Or do they purposefully prepare their return beforehand? The first one should be boosted by the corruption IMO, the latter inhibited.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 22:54:28 +0000 UTCPeak storytelling
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-12 22:12:06 +0000 UTC"I cant wait to find out what it actually is" - me too. It's one of the hinted but unrevealed mysteries.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 22:11:36 +0000 UTCYou bring up some good points, I dont think the sin is based on personality though, probably more about actions. Apart from that, if its not sloth, I cant wait to find out what it actually is.
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-12 22:09:17 +0000 UTC"Dont see why both of them cant be demons of sloth. " - because the way they appear on a basic level is very different. Belphegor seems to draw power from apparent slowness, his "clones" are made of rock and earth, and so on. Samuel, on the other hand, is fast and agile, but every now and then he breaks down in remorse/depression/guilt and it gnaws at him, siphoning his spiritual strength. His only reason for living seems to be the desire to be blamed and hated. At least it was so before Salvos healed him. No, I absolutely don't see him being a demon of sloth; he's too energetic, like a barely controlled explosion or a spring that can go off at any moment. As for probabilities, probabilistic evaluations don't apply; for instance, you can say that Haec's situation is highly improbable since he's the only known case, but this one case invalidates the existing hypothesis. It doesn't matter how improbable something is if it's true. Only Melas, however, can know whether it's true. :)
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 22:06:30 +0000 UTCDont see why both of them cant be demons of sloth. Belphegor remained stagnant in his beliefs and actions for eons too, despite them not halting or destroying the corruption, only slowing it down. Fundamentally both refused to change their ways despite whatever they were doing not giving them results they wanted. Belphegor was kinda forced into it but im pretty sure Samuel would be a demon of sloth. Also Im not saying your theory is improbable, because it could be the case tbf, just saying him being sloth is more likely.
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-12 21:55:40 +0000 UTCNah, Belphegor is a demon of sloth. Samuel seems to be a demon of guilt/remorse.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 21:51:16 +0000 UTC"Samuel used to bear a different sin ... what's interesting is thst none of thag is along the lines of those seven sins haec was talking about" I disagree. Samuel could have gotten the sin of sloth, for eons he refused to act against the end of the world thinking that it would do nothing or someone else would take care of it, this is very close to the sin of sloth.
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-12 21:43:12 +0000 UTCIt was said at least twice that Samuel used to bear a different sin, that of pride, which implies that he no longer does, and this change took place after he was already a Primordial. So, what is his sin now? Regret? Depression/despondency? Something along those lines, definitely, but what's interesting is that none of that is along the lines of those seven sins Haec was talking about, and his proteges (those that sieged Alyras) embodied. This frees me to speculate that Demons *normally* embody one of those seven sins, but Regnorex and Oracli obviously don't know the whole story, because Haec got two sins, which was thought impossible, and the Devil seemingly has a sin that's not on the list of seven. So, to continue my thought experiment, let's assume that in exceptional cases Demons can embody any significant spiritual trend, or several. It's just extremely uncommon, probably for multiple reasons. One is that exceptions fare poorly in the Netherworld; we've seen Demon larvas that are kind and trusting, and they are just wiped out almost instantly. The environment probably favours certain types - those who are cruel, calculating, egotistical, wrathful, envious and so on, probably survive much better than those who are kind, loving and noble, at least initially; once you're as powerful as Salvos, you can afford to be kind, trusting and loving, simply because you're so powerful you can take Regnorex by the horns and break mountains with his snout. :) This is probably why it served Salvos well to rely on her pride in her quest for power, but now that she's one of the most powerful individuals in her world, she no longer has to prove she's better than any random person. As she is more comfortable in that regard, being able to count people stronger than her on fingers of one hand, self-protection and self-assertion are moved down on the list of dominant traits.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 21:38:04 +0000 UTCThats some good points but I dont think it will be like that, pretty sure that Salvos gaining a Virtue (what spirits normally have) on top of her sin of pride, seems to me like the most likely. Im basing this purely of the whole story so far (which I read in a bit over 1 month so its still pretty fresh in my mind) and my gut instinct, so by no means is it accurate. Though, it just seems like a Salvos development to me.
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-12 21:09:17 +0000 UTCSure, she's prideful about loving and caring about others, and you can say she loves herself above all, but she is still ready to give up her life for loved ones. Is pride really pride if it lacks all negative connotations? Maybe it then becomes just love of self, in some pure and innocent form? Before, when she was all about pride, you could just see she's a dumbass and it was over the top and silly, but she was still always a kind and friendly person. Now, I'm struggling to find any of her previous flaws. Ok, she still sucks at communicating.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 21:00:27 +0000 UTC"Salvos no longer seems to be motivated by pride" Very interesting idea, and I think it makes sense but I also ant imagine her personality without it, right now you could argue she is less about pride and more about love and care for others but in essence she is still prideful about that. I reckon most realistic is she gains a virtue along with her sin like Haec has 2 sins
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-12 20:44:56 +0000 UTC"it could also be a grand skill based on her pride" - Salvos no longer seems to be motivated by pride. That's an interesting development, and I kept watching the trend and by now it seems clear. Sally is the same way, interestingly, and especially after the syncs started; her motivation is to protect those she loves. I would in fact go so far as to expect her to be defined as a Sinless Primordial Demon, or something that changes the entire definition of the species, because, as far as I can see, her motivation is still to level and evolve, but if we compare the early Salvos, who was all about recognition, pride and so on, and that was increasingly balanced by love and care for others, now she's almost exclusively love and care for others. Sally shows this interesting change after the sync - before, it was important to her to be recognized as Sally, not just a clone of Salvos, but later she's like fuck that, and when she checks her motives, they are all about Rachel and the baby wyverns. She doesn't want to die, she's afraid, fear turns to determination, she knows she's about to die but wants to take the Matriarch out so that her loved ones remain safe. No, I don't think she's a Demon of Pride anymore, I think she's a Demon of Love, and that kinda breaks the definition of species and opens up all possible implications during her evolution. Honestly, if she didn't have horns and claws, absolutely nobody could've guessed she's a Demon of any kind, based on her character. She even treated Manos with kindness, trust and acceptance.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 20:33:51 +0000 UTCThose are all good questions. I guess Grand Skills are something that allows you to punch at least an evolution above your weight, albeit temporarily and with other limitations. A normal skill is basically a reflection of what you are at this point in your development. This is of course not a complete picture - your Grand Skills are very often a reflection of who you are in your relationship with the world - is it about protecting you, do you want more power, do you want a weapon, do you want mastery of some kind of magic, and in some cases, do you want to commit suicide by destroying your enemies.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 20:06:16 +0000 UTCHm.... Now that you mention it, it sounds familiar... I guess I mostly had the battle at the bloodied gulf in mind, where IIRC not only Salvos but also the evolved centinel developed GSs outside levelups/evolutions. That does reinforce my general assumption that evolutions fundamentally faciliate development. That begs the question, are (grand) skills the same no matter if they were developed based on natural progression or in response to environmental pressure? [Salvo of Vanity] is powerful, but is it fundamentally better than, say [Star Forge]? And how does Samuel's statement that effectively said all grand skills evolve during the primordial evolution play into this? What makes a grand skill grand in contrast to just a one tier higher skill? After all, it seems like they are different given that the primordial evolution allegedly can't have normal skills catch up to grand skills. If normal skills were tools, would grand skills be like limbs?
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 19:52:01 +0000 UTC"Because of this, I'm a bit confused you expect a GS in any anticipated circumstance, especially an evolution." - there were actually multiple mentions of GS being awarded to Human elites at 150 class upgrade, for instance Clayton said he got his first one that way, when he killed a Greater Wyvern. Also, Haec got a GS at his 150 evolution. This makes me believe that getting a GS at your major evolution is the more common way, and getting it otherwise is exceptional.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 18:23:16 +0000 UTCBased on what we know about people other than Salvos, it's not all too uncommon to get normal skills between evolution IIRC. I think it was suggested about Haec and Edithe at least. That said, Salvos mostly gets and evolves normal skills during evolution. Grand skills on the other hand should be absolutely impossible to get in any reproducible way IMO. We haven't seen it at least. Samuel's comment that grand skills need to be maxed out (eligible for evolution) suggests to me that GSs are born from reality altering desire instead of training or experience. And drive evolution instead of following it. Because of this, I'm a bit confused you expect a GS in any anticipated circumstance, especially an evolution.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 18:03:57 +0000 UTCPog
John Ebbers
2024-11-12 15:11:01 +0000 UTC"Lvl 200+ are supposed to have attained immortality." - I don't know if that works for profoundly corrupted entities.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 13:16:41 +0000 UTCI kinda expect the Matriarch to resurrect (assuming she was killed). Lvl 200+ are supposed to have attained immortality. And with Jofis only the final/permanent kill gave XP...
Gonvas
2024-11-12 13:12:18 +0000 UTCOh, I'm pretty sure the Matriarch is dead; she's not walking away from that one. Whether Sally survived is a different matter. I surely hope so, because otherwise this would look too much like the death of Mori Gladius, and I still didn't get over that one. I wish she could integrate into the main Salvos line in some wholesome way that doesn't feel like the loss of a heroic character. Normal clones look like telepresence, but this one is an actual person.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 11:52:52 +0000 UTCI feel like a major thing people are glossing over here is the possibility that Sally just fully took down the Matriarch… and how taking her down could potentially be the final push for The main Salvos to hit primordial stage on the other end. It might be the clutch level up that saves her life in whatever she is doing as it really sounds like Salvos is doing some sacrificial instance in the ritual event. Maybe we get one more chapter with Rachel side to see what level Salvos is at after the clone and Rachel make it back into the barrier. Although, I expect that to occur towards the end of this book as that could give too many hints as to what has actually occurred in the Netherworld.
Toasty Anivia
2024-11-12 11:26:26 +0000 UTCI don't know, but it might be the Primordial form of Salvos. Also, the GS might be something she got *after* her evolution, which is in fact the normal and expected thing.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 11:13:11 +0000 UTC"Are they in the Mortal Realm or in the Netherworld?" - that's true, there were no hints as to where in the Nexeus they emerged. I simply assumed that Sally rifted through the line of least effort straight back, because she was in too much of a hurry to fiddle with it. Also, it would be a waste of explosion if nobody saw that. :) I want them all to have seen it, because Salvos has been having too many fights out of sight, so nobody really saw what she had to go through and what kind of odds she had to overcome; they usually just assumed she's a reckless fool that breaks shit. Clayton, for instance, would have watched this fight from up close with increased disbelief as Sally grew in power and not only fought back, but nuked the damn abomination out of the sky.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 10:58:51 +0000 UTCI think it was a combo of goblet and Salvos bathing in the ritual.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 10:44:49 +0000 UTCShe didn't necessarily loose a year so far at all! Maybe she takes a year to depopulate Reggie's kingdom. Maybe she takes a year to disrupt/contain/reverse the ritual. Maybe she takes a year to evolve. Most likely, she took a few months in the 2nd layer, a few days/weeks travelling the multiverse, a few weeks roaming around, a few weeks here and there and finally a few months to fight Reggie's kingdom to catch up.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 10:43:10 +0000 UTCI actually don't think the goblet had anything to do with it xD Ah, ok (for 2nd part).
Gonvas
2024-11-12 10:43:01 +0000 UTC"Wdym we know what caused the link?" - the Goblet/Sally/Lair stack, plus [Wisdom of the Old Gods], that initial flash was the link expanding. "And if U think Salvos is in the middle of choosing her evolution and fighting inner demons how the hell would she appear to fight?" - she wouldn't, that's what I'm saying.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 10:42:04 +0000 UTCRachel is feeling like shit now, and that's good. She got an important lesson about risk and optimism today; namely, no, things won't necessarily go well just because it would be too terrible if they didn't, and just because you want it. You can make a bad call and then someone you love can die saving you. Even if by some miracle Sally survives this lesson needs to be learned.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 10:37:02 +0000 UTCMaybe something in between like Quetzalcoatl?
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 10:21:41 +0000 UTCWdym we know what caused the link? And if U think Salvos is in the middle of choosing her evolution and fighting inner demons how the hell would she appear to fight?
Gonvas
2024-11-12 10:15:59 +0000 UTCIn theory, she could've got more than one, but the simplest explanation is that it's one, and it seems to be a superweapon, which is good because that's what she lacked. I hope it's not a suicidal one, but a suicidal GS is not what Salvos would manifest as a GS, so I think not, and I also think/hope Sally pulls through. After all, the last paragraphs were written from a spectator's PoV. A huge nuclear/supernova blast and then nothing would be expected if you were blinded by the light. I just hope the blast didn't nuke the Mavos Academy, whose shield was probably down, and wouldn't have done much against this even if it were up.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 09:54:01 +0000 UTC"what would cause the sudden link" - I think we know what caused the link to be enhanced just then. What we don't know is what prevented Salvos from appearing immediately, even after she saw all of her Grand Skills used on the other side. We know two things: she's alive, because stuff syncs therefore both sides exist, and she's prevented from appearing for some very strong reason.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 09:44:03 +0000 UTCThe fact that Fal Deus calls himself the true god of Vacuous most likely doesn't make him a True God.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 09:37:26 +0000 UTCI can totally see that. The thing is if she has not evolved what would cause the sudden link? Some GS reaching max lvl? Salvos upgraded her clone skill right before evolution?
Gonvas
2024-11-12 09:34:49 +0000 UTC"She cocoons herself for evolution, fighting her inner demons over her evolutions. Until Sally returns to back her up, unlocking an evolution she is truely happy with. " - this sounds likely. However, it's not even necessary that she's getting another, better option. She might just be cocooned up and the process might last a day or two; it was a whole day the last time. I don't know how the mind sync with Sally would work, though. That last GS implies evolved form, though.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 09:31:58 +0000 UTC"Option B is that Manos fooled Salvos' skill. " - or she misinterpreted the readings; she thought he just wanted salvation, but salvation is also what Regnorex keeps harping about.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 09:30:15 +0000 UTC"depending on the timing of the second layer" - I thought so at one point, but then I realised that the Hellabomination was still waiting for her at the top, so it couldn't have been long. The trip around the Multiverse is the most likely candidate for losing a year, I think.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 09:28:25 +0000 UTC"That was either a Grand Skill or a Primordial Tier normal skill, since it was bold! Crazy stuff for sure!" - Her Divine skills such as [Sacred Hellfire] are also in bold. It's a confusing notation that means either a GS or Divinity, and it's especially confusing since it's not used consistently.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 09:26:28 +0000 UTC"Salvos... evolves (very much looks like it at least) " - that is the parsimonic interpretation of the available data, at least how I see it. I wonder what shape it was that Sally changed into in the end - archangel or dragon?
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 09:16:24 +0000 UTC"He wouldn't need to deceive Salvos or anyone in the rebellion to wipe them out so I wonder what he's really up to." - that's definitely true, and I wonder whether what we saw corresponds to an actual reality. In any case, Salvos levelled a lot; more than I expected her to level, and I had high expectations. There must have been a terrible slaughter of very high levelled demons. Also, in both cases she got Grand Skills so far, she was at the edge of death, so the third situation can't have been fun.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-12 09:14:03 +0000 UTCNot sure if i remember correctly but didn't that one evolved centinal eat monsters to get their skills? Maybe the the Broodmother did the same, eat some dead dragons.
Tim
2024-11-12 06:58:13 +0000 UTCHow about [I am Salvos] as a grand skill. It would be kind of weird for Sally to use it than though. Except if she changed it to [I am Sally].
Tim
2024-11-12 06:45:50 +0000 UTCIf Salvos was already in the middle of evolving, she would already made her choice. She wouldn't be able to change it. If she was in the middle of choosing, that doesn't explain the sudden connection to Sally. The phase of choosing an option doesn't grant a power up. Btw, what's that about Soli's plan to invade Netherworld? I don't remember that...
Gonvas
2024-11-12 02:20:57 +0000 UTCWow. I this was one hell of a chapter. I didn't expect Rachel's pov to be so far ahead of Salvos'. And Manos is definitely... a character. He wouldn't need to deceive Salvos or anyone in the rebellion to wipe them out so I wonder what he's really up to. Considering both Salvos and Haec make it to the ritual, he obviously doesn't let her die. I'm dying over here in anticipation 😭.
Crashdevil
2024-11-12 01:18:28 +0000 UTCHeck, maybe Salvos is currently evolving and Sally's return grants her another, better option! That would definitely mean that [Salvo of Vanity] gets a sick upgrade! That would be amazing! Salvos absorbs all the energy of the ritual that Soli planned to unleash upon the Netherworld and multiply. She cocoons herself for evolution, fighting her inner demons over her evolutions. Until Sally returns to back her up, unlocking an evolution she is truely happy with. And the cocoon bursts, revealing... a horned, clawed devil the size of a young woman. From the shards of the cocoon, one transformes into a regal but practical armor-like outfit, while seven others hover around her head like a crown. The other pieces expand into clones, each overflowing with magnificense only dwarfed by the original's reverence inducing aura. [Now entering: Presence of Salvos]
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 01:01:36 +0000 UTCIt is her latest GS, not necessarily the 5th, is it?
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 00:21:47 +0000 UTCThis chapter... Insane! Give me more! This is all I could have hoped for and more! The matriarch is as powerful as she was implied! Crazy things happened in the Netherworld! Salvos... evolves (very much looks like it at least) I absolutely cannot wait to see what happened in the Netherworld! And I absolutely cannot wait to see her current stat sheet!!! [Corrupted Divine Dragon's Breath]?! Yes, yes and yes again!!!
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 00:20:01 +0000 UTCI can also see [I am Inevitable], a skill close to reality warping.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 00:11:28 +0000 UTCThat was either a Grand Skill or a Primordial Tier normal skill, since it was bold! Crazy stuff for sure!
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 00:07:05 +0000 UTCSalvos' time line was always up to one year behind, depending on the timing of the second layer. At some point I got convinced that she stayed there for that whole year, but I guess from the two scenarios I anticipated, the one that saw Salvos finishing business in the Netherworld before the matriarch battle turned out to be closer to reality...
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 00:05:39 +0000 UTCThere are two options here. Option A is that Manos only pretends to betray Salvos. Option B is that Manos fooled Salvos' skill. He left Sicar with the rebellion to deal with them while having Salvos carry him into an ambush. In that case, Hartia comes to warn her and is struck down, maybe killed by Manos. Salvos snaps and murders the whole lot (including the army), triggering the ritual. Then she flies right into the center of it and absorbs a lot of that energy. Then she evolves. Likely Focalor and Reggie are also (in some way) dealt with at that point.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-12 00:00:45 +0000 UTCMatriarch wasn't stuck in the void to begin with. She followed Sally in and out of her world. The only question is: Are they in the Mortal Realm or in the Netherworld? Hopefully the latter.
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-11 23:53:03 +0000 UTCShe will return back into Salvos as memories. And that means it is likely not the end for Sally ;)
Dragonmaster_42
2024-11-11 23:51:07 +0000 UTCSally is a precious cinnamon roll
ArcaneOverride
2024-11-11 23:14:53 +0000 UTC"I am... Atomic" kinda get that from the name of the grand skill
Borys Wisniewski
2024-11-11 23:04:34 +0000 UTC"[I Am Become Death, The Destroyer Of Worlds]?
ArcaneOverride
2024-11-11 23:01:11 +0000 UTCI guess that's what's coming next, and this will be left hanging until the timelines merge and we get a complete explanation.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-11 22:55:10 +0000 UTCMore like teasers
Alexey Gladkich
2024-11-11 21:45:35 +0000 UTCIt's more like Matriarch will resurrect herself in time. She's bound to be survivable, considering what she went through.
Alexey Gladkich
2024-11-11 21:44:48 +0000 UTCWe did see it in Amelia. U just have to look for it. And it wasn't "true god" it was "True God of X universe" with capital letters. Melas uses capital letters, bold effect and all that to change the meaning behind the words. And the character is a selfish entity who only cares about himself. I disagree with the idea U need to be a good person to become a True God. While some go up the ranks while helping 3rd parties, others only care about themselves. It depends on talent and the kind of experiences the individuals go though. Ones follow X path, others Y, ...
Gonvas
2024-11-11 20:55:34 +0000 UTCI think the chapter is supposed to be edited to have Sicar fly Manos with Salvos. He can't fly... He's just putting his axe on his shoulder, it doesn't mean he already used it. I think he's getting ready to atk with his axe and catch the commanders off guard. If he was going to betray he could have already destroyed the rebellion alone much less with Sicar. I can see him killing Sicar (the guy didn't want to betray Reggie and only joined after Manos threatened to kill him). Uses that to prove his "loyalty" + Salvos reaction helps with this theatre. And then, BAM starts the massacre of the commanders.
Gonvas
2024-11-11 20:52:16 +0000 UTC"we already saw a True God in Amelia" - The only True God we saw was that blond man in an empty white world. From what was said, True Gods can create Universes, and they can kill Worldwalkers. Also, Worldwalkers strive to become True Gods, but universally fail. My conjecture is that they misunderstand the requirements. They think it's more power. It's not. So if it's not power, it must be something else. That's where I had an idea that there must be some other hidden score that makes the difference, something you need to do but you get no credit for. And what is important, and you don't do it if you're a selfish pig that cares only about levels? It's all the stuff Salvos does that's not levelling - love, sacrifice, friendship, protecting others with her own life, caring for others enough to put herself in harm's way. I think that's why she's the first person in living memory to evolve to Lesser God at 150, and I expect her to be in a unique position to evolve her God species at 190/200. But other than that, I'm afraid Salvos is going to get very close to death at some point, the way she almost died when she got her first two GS.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-11 20:50:35 +0000 UTCSpoilers!!!! ;) from author no less
Użytkownik Przeciętny
2024-11-11 20:46:33 +0000 UTC"Salvos was alone with Manos when they went to fight the Legion commanders." - that doesn't mean much. Sicar probably went along too, and Manos obviously just killed someone because he's returning his axe to his back, and Salvos is much more angry than she would be at mere betrayal. He killed someone she loved.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-11 20:40:54 +0000 UTCSalvos was alone with Manos when they went to fight the Legion commanders.
Gonvas
2024-11-11 20:37:53 +0000 UTCLet me hypothesise. I think Manos killed Hartia, to prevent them from freeing any more slaves. Let's say Hartia had a nice heartfelt moment with Salvos before. And let's say Manos killed her newest companion. He's dead; everybody else there is dead.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-11 20:34:57 +0000 UTCThat was my head canon for a sec too just reincarnating bit, I assume the matriarch survived and I hope she is stuck in the folds between the planes
Travis Brown
2024-11-11 20:29:54 +0000 UTCWe still got Sally’s clone
Travis Brown
2024-11-11 20:27:51 +0000 UTCEven without Manos, there were more lvl 190s demons to kill. Focalor may have strong disposable slaves that help Salvos lvl up. Maybe after a few more lvl ups, skills and GS, Salvos can be a real threat to weak Primordials... Manos may not be required for Salvos to reach Primordial.
Gonvas
2024-11-11 20:26:52 +0000 UTCWhat happened to salvos, manos I trusted you, the amount of questions to answers in my head is a little overwhelming imma go to bed
Travis Brown
2024-11-11 20:24:56 +0000 UTCIMO, U are really underestimating the meaning of True God. The leap from Primeval Demon with Elite class straight to True God is way too much. Btw, we already saw a True God in Amelia...
Gonvas
2024-11-11 20:22:12 +0000 UTCIt seems Manos killed someone Salvos cared for, and he pissed her off more than I've seen anyone piss her off since Ira, when he threatened her children. I think we lost someone important there. :( Also, considering how fast Sally was growing in stats, Salvos levelled much more than expected there, which means there was a terrible bloodbath, like, the entire Regnorex's army killed, millions of dead Demons, starting with Manos and Chordus. She killed them all. Also, considering that she just killed Matriarch Centinel, the life of Regnorex isn't worth a dime at the moment. He's either already dead or she can kill him like a bug. But something happened to Salvos. She's obviously not dead, because dead people don't sync memories with their clones. She's obviously not available, because the moment she got synced up about this terrible calamity, she'd have been there in a sec. No, she's not in what we would call a normal state. Either she's in some kind of a stasis/coma, or she's evolving, or something of that category. I know this was a huge and excellent chapter, but it's such a fucking cliffhanger I want to see more. :)
Danijel Turina
2024-11-11 20:20:32 +0000 UTCWe leave for a few chapters and all hell breaks loose
Travis Brown
2024-11-11 20:18:04 +0000 UTCWe better get a recap of what happened to salvos and haec
Travis Brown
2024-11-11 20:16:56 +0000 UTC"I expect True Gods to be far above Primordial Salvos." - I don't think it works like that. I think it's a qualitative leap that happens when you reach a combination of power and virtue of sufficient quantity. That's what the Worldwalkers are getting wrong - they think more power is the way, and it's obviously not.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-11 20:09:49 +0000 UTCGod I'm craving for the next chapter sooooo much right now
Andy
2024-11-11 20:09:01 +0000 UTCI expect True Gods to be far above Primordial Salvos. At the earliest it would be the next step after Primordial Salvos, when both subspecies and class become free of the current System limitations (lvl 250 max). The Beast and the Worldwalkers we saw are clearly a tier above the other lvl 200 beings. And these guys are far from true god tier.
Gonvas
2024-11-11 20:02:35 +0000 UTCI figured that one out myself but I kinda lost track of the exact timing. I know Rachel timeline is in the future compared to where we left Salvos, but I don't know how much - maybe 3 days, maybe a week. Edithe timeline is in the past from Rachel, I'm not sure how many days, but it's closer to Salvos. Daniel - no clue.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-11 19:55:31 +0000 UTCI would bet the name of that fifth GS wasn't written because it changes everything we think we saw.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-11 19:53:00 +0000 UTCLet's assume I'm right. However, why is Salvos not immediately responding? She absolutely must have been aware of everything that was going on in [The World of My Mind]. Obviously, all the Grand Skills were accessible by Sally, so the assumption is that it's all synced from Salvos who is alive somewhere and in full power, and much more power than we've seen so far; that Corrupted Dragon's Breath must kick mountains of ass. But where's Salvos? Maybe in a very serious fight for her life, but then Grand Skills wouldn't be all ready to be used by Sally. That can't be it. Maybe in stasis somewhere beyond the world, because she did something that should normally be fatal, but just changed her condition in some way we don't have any way of understanding. Or she's evolving into a Primordial/True God, right now. I think the last option is increasingly likely.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-11 19:50:40 +0000 UTCThat fifth GS, though... we don't know what it's called, nor what it does. We do, however, know that Salvos did something to stop the ritual, and Haec thought she was going to die. She didn't die, obviously, because she's syncing with Sally after that point, and she learned the fifth GS and she's high levelled enough for her clone to parry the Matriarch. [The World Of My Mind] is still there and accessible to Sally. [The Claw of Corruption] was out of cooldown and accessible. Salvos did something from which she levelled like crazy even before that, so I would assume Manos made his final mistake in life.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-11 19:39:24 +0000 UTC[Corrupted Divine Dragons Breath]? Divine Dragon? Yes please
Angworu
2024-11-11 19:34:47 +0000 UTCFuck.
Danijel Turina
2024-11-11 19:33:39 +0000 UTCI truly loved this chapter, fuck you MelasDelta, I don’t even know where to start feeling at
Travis Brown
2024-11-11 19:04:13 +0000 UTCThanks for the clarity in the note cause I think I had that exact question
Travis Brown
2024-11-11 18:41:03 +0000 UTCI want to see Manos in action. Whether he really betrayed Salvos or if he was trying to catch the commanders off guard. Reggie's ritual, how she learned new skills and GS, ...
Gonvas
2024-11-11 18:32:11 +0000 UTCI... Am... Atomic
Virduckia
2024-11-11 18:31:22 +0000 UTC1m of silence for the GOAT of clones...
Gonvas
2024-11-11 18:18:36 +0000 UTCNoooo don't kill Sally 😭
Manlor
2024-11-11 18:03:23 +0000 UTCSame thing crossed my mind (about Salvos' death) xD
Gonvas
2024-11-11 17:58:24 +0000 UTCHoly sh*t!!!
Gonvas
2024-11-11 17:57:41 +0000 UTCVery cool chapter. In the middle of it I half expected that og Salvos had died and was in the process of reincarnating into Sally With a bit of luck the Sentinel Matriarc will be able to locate Salvos through the opening portal and drop in on Reggie's army for a fun three way fight
Til Weisheit
2024-11-11 17:49:52 +0000 UTCNOOOOOOOOOO! This chapter was so good, but Sally😭
Azrie
2024-11-11 17:44:48 +0000 UTC
