Recent Ateez Video
Added 2023-01-20 01:22:41 +0000 UTCI think I’m definitely overthinking right now but there is not one inch of me that would ever want to be disrespectful so I just feel the need to clear something up.
I shared my opinion on the Korean hierarchy system and how I don’t agree with parts of it. I’m a strong believer in “show respect to receive respect” and that everyone should be treated equally regardless of age or status.
I grew up with the values of respect your elders, always be polite, and treat others how you want to be treated.
My view on the hierarchy system was more so the fact that, without even knowing someone, another person can be given more respect than you depending on specific factors. That is an interesting one for me to understand for a few reasons.
1. It wasn’t how I was brought up, so purely just a cultural difference
2. I have been in situations where someone has taken advantage of me due to their position in a company.
3. I feel like it’s normal human decency to show respect to people you are meeting for the first time or who are in a higher position Eg. Your boss/manager. Yet if that person doesn’t treat you nicely, why should you have to treat them nicely back? It’s just a hard one for me to comprehend.
My comments were just mere thoughts. Not saying my thoughts are correct, it’s just interesting to share different opinions.
I have full respect for Korean culture, and no one told me I was being rude or disrespectful but I just want to clarify just in case.
I love the conversations we have had on that video and it’s been so great that I have been able to hear views from Koreans and have been able to learn your views for my own knowledge and “growth”.
Whilst I think it’s great to share opinions, I never want to push that boundary and offend anyone, so apologies if I did.
Hope everyone is having a great day ❤️❤️❤️
Comments
So well put! Really love your take on this. This really is such an important conversation to be having and really makes me think about all the different cultures in the world as well as just the different social systems. Reading through everyone’s thoughts has been super eye opening for me that’s for sure ❤️
Melanie Lillis
2023-01-20 11:20:04 +0000 UTCI've just found it really interesting reading through all the comments on the video. It made me think a lot coming from a British background where there is both a mix of some institutions still have the more archaic "honour" style system that is class based really vs age and then a lot of general society does not. The class system can very much be one where respect is used as a placeholder to really mean demonstration of social value/standing. It often originates on the idea of someone with more resources is able to distribute them to others and regardless of if they do this kindly/not there is a "respect" demanded that can show through language or titles. So I think for cultures that come from that kind of background historically honorifics systems can seem uncomfortable in some parts. My dad actually mentions this when I talk about asian culture, how he instinctively feels uncomfortable about the honorifics culture, being from a very working class socialist political background. However, a lot of asian culture have both some of the class system hangover, but also an honorific system based on age/experience. Someone who has lived longer has more experience of the world than you so you should keep that in mind and respect that. It's also a formalised system of community, if you have lived in the world longer/and industry longer you should look out for and guide those less experienced. The language is like a verbal reminder of your role in the community in this context. Whilst I am not Korean so cannot speak to the intricacies and how it feels to live that, I sometimes think that from a western perspective we can find these systems curious/uncomfortable in some parts because we relate to them from very different backgrounds. If someone in the UK harked on about respect I would immediately get my hackles up with that feeling of I'll be polite but you have to earn respect and being too over focused on formal behaviour feels like a red flag for someone who likes to place themselves above others. I feel very differently when I see the Korean system at work because with each title comes a job role almost. It's less of a verbal demonstration of submission/power as it would feel in a UK context and more a verbal acceptance/awareness of your role in this context in the community. If any of that makes sense at all. You just got me thinking and it was really interesting, I enjoy these conversations that come up when interacting with people all around the world because of something we all love.
Ixaala
2023-01-20 09:47:49 +0000 UTCFirst of all, thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts in such great detail. I found myself nodding along the entire time. I also realised how these “norms” (the oldest being more responsible just say) were taken for granted by me. I am the youngest of 4 and I am the only girl. My whole life I have gotten away with a lot of things my brothers didn’t and definitely was treated nicer than they were purple because I was the baby. Never once have I taken the time to think about such a “normal” thing and how we subconsciously follow these societal norms. You have really sparked so many thoughts in my head and have changed my views in so many ways, so thank you for that. This is actually such an interesting conversation 🙈 I wish I was live when reacting to this so we could have had a proper discussion and bounced thoughts off each other. Than you again xx
Melanie Lillis
2023-01-20 06:57:36 +0000 UTCThanks April ❤️
Melanie Lillis
2023-01-20 06:51:37 +0000 UTCTotally, and thank you for being so kind. Cultural conversations are important and it’s definitely been helpful to hear everyone’s thoughts ❤️❤️
Melanie Lillis
2023-01-20 06:51:25 +0000 UTCMel we love you and we know you wouldn't want to disrespect any culture. Don't worry about it. Growing up in a culture every single day for years comes with so many intricacies. Even if you had a degree on Asian culture, and we got a degree on western culture we would still each stick to our own cultures because that is our home, and we only know how to navigate within our comfort zone. It's all understandable and natural. Makes for a nice discussion!
Hana
2023-01-20 06:35:18 +0000 UTCYeah I think that’s why it’s so hard to comprehend in certain circumstances. Like one of my friends who I hang out wit regularly is in her 50’s, so 20+ years older and we treat each other exactly the same. I also am super casual with my boss who is 60 and he is with me. I must say, learning more about peoples different opinions is definitely interesting 🥰
Melanie Lillis
2023-01-20 06:08:06 +0000 UTCI come from a culture where hierarchy and "respect" is very much drilled into us as children. Growing up in the U.S, it's opened my eyes to how toxic it is. When one person is held to a higher standard in society, they are more likely to abuse their power. I've experienced it first hand and I don't believe anyone deserves respect just because of seniority or status. I'm actually surprised to see so many people disagree with you, but that just goes to show how accustomed we are to the western society. It’s interesting to see different perspectives. I address my boss and even my college professors by their first name. People can be twice my age, but I would not speak to them any differently. I hope people understand how different it really is. Everyone is pretty much treated the same regardless and respect is earned. I find more comfort in that.
sarah
2023-01-20 04:45:31 +0000 UTCYou don't need to apologize we have different cultures and beliefs. Hence, this gave us opportunity to talk and learn from each other perspective. Please don't overthink mel we understand you 🫶 Let's enjoy their show 😍 P's. I really enjoy watching your reaction to their new videos. 💓
APRIL 🌟
2023-01-20 03:55:27 +0000 UTC//PLEASE DON'T PANIC SEEING THIS LONG TEXT. I JUST RANT A LOT. DEFINITELY NOT TRYING TO CANCEL YOU OR ANYTHING // Also it's 4am here, pls excuse sentences that don't make sense, me loosing my train of thoughts and ranting, or any typos// Ahahah, honestly don't worry about it. I think, like me, people just find this subject very interesting and were sharing their points of view and arguments to help you better understand why things are the way they are, and why it's a system that works for them. I think no one thought you were being disrespectful toward the culture, the Koreans or even Ateez. It was a typical situation of no one is wrong or right. Your opinion and criticism are valid just like the comments not agreeing with you. Again, in this specific case, it's really just a matter of different "lifestyles" and each to their own, honestly. And as someone who grew up in a North African household (lots of common values/rules with SK) in France (not as much common things), I can 100% understand why you would not be in favor of this "lifestyle", especially since you've not experienced it. In theory, it does feel quite unfair/unequal. But I actually think it can be beneficial for the society in some ways. That's why I still wanted to give my two cents (and again sorry for the following essay). And I also wanted to respond to your issue about people "who expect respect but don’t give it back". Cause I'm with you on this one, but I think it's not specific to this. I can say that having a hierarchical society has both its pros and cons. The cons are the obvious ones you're thinking about (Abusing one's status to disrespect the ones "beneath" them, ordering people around, etc..). But more surprisingly, it can also have its cons for the people "above". First, I want to note that even in some western cultures, we have those hierarchical rules (now I'm wondering if the exceptions aren't English-speaking societies). In France, for instance, we have one specific pronoun ('"vous"/Formal "you" opposed to "tu"/informal "you") we would use to address a stranger, an elderly person, or a superior. And don't get me wrong, when I was younger I'd constantly question the necessity of rules like, especially growing up in France and learning about its history (constant social battles against the higher social royalties and "la bourgeoisie", for social equality). I remember thinking why should I use "vous" to address my teacher when they don't reciprocate? Aren't we all “born free and equal in dignity and rights"? Isn't Respect a two-way street? But what I failed to realize is that honorifics, among other things, are social cues first and foremost. And one of the purposes of social cues is helping to set boundaries. Let's continue with the student/teacher context for example ; we actually had a few teacher who would allow us to use "tu/informal you" with them. And back then I loved it because you do feel closer to them, and you do feel equal to them. But at the end of the day, you are not .. I won't say they were less respected, but it's true that compared to other teachers their authority wasn't as effective on us, because subconsciously it felt like they were more friends than teachers. We would be on our best behavior for the "vous" teachers and a bit more chaotic for the "tu" ones. (And that's just the example I could think of rn at 4am). Regarding the "it's only one year difference, it's not as if they were way older", god my younger self would 10000% agree with you. The amount of time I was ordered around and sent for errands because I was one year younger than my cousins. Every other day I would be ready for riots cause it felt so unfair. But what I didn't realize is that yes, 1 year compared to 10 can seem like nothing, in the grand scheme of things, but it's actually a lot somehow. AND most importantly being one year older also means you have to be dependable and responsible for the younger ones. If we were misbehaving, I'd be scolded but it was nothing compared to my cousins ("because they were older and should have known better"). Also never in my life, I had to spend any kind of money when I was hanging out with my cousins, I was always taken care of (to this day even as a young adult earning my own money) cause it's their duty as my eldest. And honestly if using a specific honorific gets me free slices of pizza for life, well you won't see me complain /j. Funnily enough, I actually realized that about my culture seeing how in SK even if you are older by one year, people would tend to the younger ones and act as a parent almost. In my western eyes, I only saw the "glory" of being older but didn't realize the burden it could also be. Until I became older than someone else. Even with my western friends, if they are in need of something, I feel like it's my responsibility to help them and advice them, as if I were their older sister 😅 Reading back I may have not actually responded directly to your "issue", but from my point of view, yes a hierarchical society can be used as an excuse to be condescending, disrespectful, and whatnot towards younger people but all the "Karens" out there are the living proof that even in a non-hierarchical society, you will find people who expect respect but don't give it back everywhere. I feel like I need to precise again that I didn't experience a hierarchal society on a daily basis (outside my family settings) but from my observations, it definitely sets the tone in a society. I'm not saying people won't disrespect you, but by having those social cues/rules ingrained in your brain, I feel like people are actually more careful about how they treat others. And as I said before I think it can be somehow beneficial to have a more united society cause at the end of the day, everyone has a role and they balance and compliment each other perfectly. // I definitely don't know what my point was, and what I really wanted to say when I started this 😭 I didn't intend to write so much, sorry again. // You may be overthinking about this situation right now and possibly regretting it, but honestly, I have to say that I really love the opportunity it gave us to talk about this. I loved reading and learning more about it in the comments. Looking forward to more reactions 💪❤️
Linaccessible.
2023-01-20 03:41:12 +0000 UTCNot at all, your comment never made me feel as though I misspoke or anything. Everyone’s comments just made me think about what I said and if it came across in a way I didn’t imply it to. I love having these kinds of conversations but it’s a little different when I am speaking on something I honestly no not a lot about (another countries culture). So just wanted to clarify and clear the air 🙈🙈🙈 Appreciate you xx
Melanie Lillis
2023-01-20 03:25:39 +0000 UTCI dont think you have disrespected anyone. or implied to. I also have a lot of things I disagree with. It is also why personally, I watch reactions because sometimes our personal reactions may not reflect the reaction of others.that is not to say that one is right over another. I find it interesting that everyone has a different outlook and keeps us open-minded. Not everything is black and white. I hope my comment did not offend you or anyone. I only wanted to share the experience I had by being called one. And that is truly fine because I think I am sometimes. :) Where I am at, I am referred to as a "manang" or a "single old lady" which is a stigma. :)
Piwi
2023-01-20 02:57:13 +0000 UTCAbsolutely! Couldn’t agree more. I think this is why I felt the need to clarify and apologise just in case. I think I was definitely applying my own beliefs. Need to be more aware moving forward ❤️
Melanie Lillis
2023-01-20 02:08:32 +0000 UTCThanks for this comment! I appreciate it ❤️
Melanie Lillis
2023-01-20 02:00:58 +0000 UTCI didn’t watch the video so I can’t really comment on what you said in particular but I do wanna say that I think culture should not be immune to criticism. Certain parts of culture can be problematic and I don’t think recognising that and sharing that you disagree with particular etiquette is inherently disrespectful at all. I actually find it important because sometimes it needs an outside perspective to bring forth change.
strange& sleepless
2023-01-20 01:48:08 +0000 UTC
