Patreon, R&P Q&A #281
Added 2024-08-21 19:15:57 +0000 UTC1400 EST thursday
Comments
Well that’s how it read to me. Either you think I am wrong or you got your feelings hurt.
Validation Junkie
2024-08-23 14:10:47 +0000 UTCThanks both for the feedback. Stripper, the advice is very helpful (as it was in the first post). I don't have any reason to lie to strangers on the internet on the other end of the world. That's the reality I'm facing right now and I see where I am going off tangent. Validation Junkie, if I may ask, why the vitriol? I believe the point of this forum is for help each other with the issues we face -- there is no need for me to make things up (for complete strangers on the internet). I am here looking for advice and the more accurate I can articulate the issues I face, the better. I've just caught up in the stream and have now learned about the OODA loops, so I have a better understanding of how to communicate and write out these field reports. I'm sure a few more of these field reports and an action first approach (which I was not aware of) will provide a more effective piece for discussion the next report. Otherwise thanks for chiming in as well.
BvS
2024-08-23 04:28:56 +0000 UTCRealizing from a 30,000 foot view perspective how much like a petulant teenager my wife can be.
Volare Alto
2024-08-22 18:11:23 +0000 UTCYou are using the word “disloyalty” to mean behaviors you dont like. You’re allowed to not like behaviors and not want to be around them. But don’t dress them up in fancy thoughts like disloyalty. Examples of “disloyalty” are having a different reaction to the CoVid pandemic, eating all the eggs (with no indication he promised not to do so), posting on ig, getting you to take pics of him for ig, shacking up with a single mom. None of those examples are being disloyal (i.e. breaking a promise to you or ratting you out). The egg example is a covert contract because you thought he should be fair and leave some for everyone but it doesn’t sound like anyone told him to do that. More pointedly, why do you care what standards I or any other internet rando have for friends. The whole point of the assertive bill of rights is to pass your own judgment.
CovertContractAttorney
2024-08-22 18:04:11 +0000 UTCExpecting loyalty is a covert contract? I am very calm, just assessing the situation.
Johnny Bravo
2024-08-22 16:49:34 +0000 UTCNo shit! Good to know
Validation Junkie
2024-08-22 16:25:43 +0000 UTCYou can have whatever boundaries you want, but if you make them too strict you might be left with no friends. It's a trade off, who cares if it sounds realistic or not. That being said as you get older the number of close friends you have decreases, and that may affect your choices. There's also the element of "kick the bitch to the curb" in here. In that you've had a friend for a while, have you pulled him aside and told him he's being a dick and that he needs to chill. You want to nuke the friendship over what could be a temporary problem(perhaps you do, it's your choice)? If a friend of mine started raising another man's children I would mock him mercilessly.
Op Sec
2024-08-22 16:05:46 +0000 UTCCan you spot the covert contracts regarding your friends and how they have to be? You’re writing angry about how they are acting. What does that tell you?
CovertContractAttorney
2024-08-22 15:16:10 +0000 UTCI am confused, you are a fuck boy but got the I love you but not in love with you vibe? Sounds like you caught oneitus and lost your chicks. Work on outcome independence when spinning those plates. Shift your frame dude. It’s not fair to you to put your happiness in someone else’s hands. This isn’t about them, this is about you. Become your own mental point of origin. I don’t think there is any coincidence this field report is written in someone else’s frame. I don’t think it’s for reference either.
Validation Junkie
2024-08-22 12:48:32 +0000 UTCField Report #2: Covert Contracts, Seeking "Closure", Increasing Options Thank you for the call to reality. The articles on plate theory were helpful. I am aware that I still have these massive covert contracts that "if I make her happy she will be with me for the rest of my life". I'm actively working on it and doing another pass of NMMNG. Since the last post, I let my feelings get the best of me and texted her back. I went over to find the reason for why she didn't want me anymore. I know the reason doesn't matter and this is "Rooting through the garbage" (I read Rollo's article on this) - her ghosting me meant that she was 1. not fucking me 2. not treating me well beyond sex, ... so she does not earn and should not have any real estate in my mind. But emotions were still hot. the fact remains that I got rid of all my other options which made her the focus of all my emotional investment during these past 8 months, so I was still not detached from this and felt like I needed some sort of "closure". Yes, I know the solution to this was for me to have been spinning more plates so that when one falls, I have not lost all eggs in that one basket. But yeah it is what it is, I still had to go and reconcile my feelings with reality. She was very much open to meet, and asked we meet at her place instead of somewhere neutral. I reach her place and we had some small talk before she jumped on me and we started fucking. It was a pleasant surprise as I was not expecting it, cause she mentioned she did not want a situationship anymore, but I guess she still wanted sex. Anyways we all love sex. I do not judge. After the sex, as expected she explains to me why she went quiet, saying her dad was going through surgery and he gave her a pep talk that made her think about whether she wanted to keep being in a non-committed relationship. I asked why she never mentioned any of this and she said she was afraid of asking for anything cause she sees me as a fuckboy. (PS I know that I should not be writing the FR from her POV, but this is all just context that's helping me get this off my chest). Anyways, the way I saw it is basically I was put into a box for a guy who gives sex and nothing more, and since I did not give any indicators of relationship, when her needs changed, she was not interested in me. The conversation had the undertone of "I love you but I'm not in love with you" and I finally got it, I was either not doing attractive things or doing something unattractive. Perhaps a combination of the two. Deep down I already knew the answer before I even reached out. Regardless, I think hearing those words was the most liberating thing. I knew that I was just one of her options, and most probably not the best one (if I was she probably would have tried to corner me for a relationship). But it doesn't matter anymore. I left somewhat relieved and with an understanding as well of where I went wrong. And I realized that she was never mine, it was just my turn. I also have come to appreciate my mistake - I put my happiness in her hands. I understand that that is not fair to do to someone and I'm only positioning myself for frustration when they do not meet these unsaid expectations. So I'm learning to take this power back to myself. Anyways in the past two weeks, I've done quite a bit of fucking to kind of get it out of my system (previous plates, Bumble, neighbour). Pipeline of wamen is not really an issue for me, but I now know that when I start to get invested in one, the biggest mistake I make is getting rid of the others. I am still learning to change my mindset to spin plates (I've never been comfortable handling multiple women at once) - perhaps you could share resources on how to get over this mental block. I am reading NMMNG to help also work on the covert contracts. After the 4th girl, it started feeling empty (I believe I was doing this just to prove to myself that I could have sex) and I made a decision just to take a step back from sex and focus my time and efforts on my MAP. I know the itch will come back, but my plan for this now is to keep it very casual, at least until the end of the year. Not much else to say, my work is cut out for me - keep working on the covert contract, push on my goals and making sure I am the only source of my satisfaction. Financially, I also pushing a startup to increase my financial options. I like what you said about a 2 year war chest in the session last week. I've always been living off my current salary (zero savings) but now see it as a very high risk because it looks like we are entering a recession and my employer might start looking into cuts soon. I consult on the side, but am working on a tech solution for more passive income. Hobby wise, I bought a motorcycle two weeks ago and am getting into the hobby. Planning for a big hike next month. What I'm planning going forward is just to focus on building myself and prioritize the mission. The women aspect is important, but I don't think I've calibrated enough to not let them be my sole focus when I get into a relationship. Anyways, thanks for the guidance and I'm happy to be a part of the group. Look forward to hearing your thoughts.
BvS
2024-08-22 10:48:04 +0000 UTCI’m not fucking other chicks. Considered some catch and release for abundance. That’s a good question. Since entering the RP space and learning what I have about women’s nature. I sometimes have a hard time trusting their intentions. My covert contract the first time was more of is she is a sub I will have a problem free life and sex how I want forever kind of covert contract hahaha. Definitely not going into it like that this time. I know better now. It’s a good point to treat the expectations the same as a nonsexual expectation. Oh yeah I am into all that haha and more.
Validation Junkie
2024-08-22 03:00:00 +0000 UTCCaught yourself Memory of a gold fish Applied cock funny to the next shot test and passed. Nice. Recognized the difference between the shit test and comfort test, calibrated and smashed it. Solid work, way to be self aware.
Validation Junkie
2024-08-21 23:42:34 +0000 UTCI finished reading Social Intelligence. This started off well. About how ones emotions influence those around them, we are wired for that. My own take is that this explains how people get into your frame. I decide how to feel and don’t look to others, in that way you will always have influence on those around you. Then it went into emotional attachment styles and lost me, I didn’t care, it wasn’t very useful. Then it got worse with proclamations on how one should run a country. Go run your own fucking country. I read The Medium is the Message. Not much to this book. I don’t mind abstract books like pook. The poetic language of this one I found annoying, even though I understood it’s purpose here. At least it’s very short and I was done in less than an hour. Can’t really summarize it, the book is an experience. I failed a shit test. I’ve learned that this means I need to pay attention, I no longer beat myself up over it. So next time I got a shit test, “Why are you going outside shirtless”, “for the ladies”. What was interesting is that she relaxed as if the thought that went through her head, “oh good he’s still an asshole”(who knows what she’s really thinking). Then did it again. “What if I want to go walking topless”, “go for it”, “I’d get arrested”, “probably”. Another time I initiated, got a maybe, and pushed for either a yes or no. Then started getting shitty comfort tests(e.g. “you don’t care about how I’m feeling”, which I responded to with “K” or fogging “I could care more”). Then they turned into I statements, “I need something more, I don’t know how to tell you what I want”. I paused, ok, I statement, this is a comfort test, also they can’t tell you what to do just how they want to feel. A hug and a pat on the head. Good result.
Op Sec
2024-08-21 23:14:47 +0000 UTCA little nihilistic with the dead tomorrow or not thing. I am assuming you mean this tongue in cheek. It also I think sums up where you are at, a little aimless. Consider how you want your life to look and work backwards. Sounds like you want to open the relationship on your end but not quite sure, may still feel a little oneitus? Or fear of getting caught? If you do want to open it up without getting rid of your current chick you have been RP long enough to know not to embarrass them and keep it discrete.
Validation Junkie
2024-08-21 22:52:37 +0000 UTCAppreciate your thoughts Stripper. I do have one 3am motherfucka (as you say), who is far from perfect on the paper, but he is a friend who has been loyal and I have respect for him due to his CORE believes being worth respect, despite his personal issues, cause no one is perfect. It’s more to do with what the mentioned examples represent, the same way I wouldn’t seriously date a woman who is a party girl or an OF girl because of what believe sets comes with it, the same way I wouldn’t be real friends with a guy who makes aforementioned choices which also represent his believe system and worldviews. Acquaintances to grab a beer or shoot some guns in a range - sure. But a real friend - no. I hope it made some clarity
Johnny Bravo
2024-08-21 22:21:46 +0000 UTCField Report #13 I read the links that Riane dropped in the live chat for me. It made me laugh because I noticed that my youngest daughter asked me is she could eat something, and I told her no. She instantly replied “I am going to ask Mom.” I chuckled to myself because the kids sensed a crack in the front, and tried to run a truck through it. I laughed and told her “nice try kid, a no is a no.” I also saw that I was still trying to fix problems and not fixing the feels. I didn’t really see the two weeks prior as one big shitty comfort test until after reading that MRP Post. I went on a walk and my wife came with me. While out she brought up to me how she been feeling lately. Listened to her talk about how she never wants to feel like a burden, and fears that I will resent her and then leave. I walked and listened for a while and didn’t try to solve the problem. As I noticed the feels getting less I gave her a side hug. I told her that I want her raising the boys until kindergarten, and the fastest way for me to become resentful is by sending them to my mom’s. She agreed and understood. I listened to her talk about how she really doesn’t want to be away from the boys yet and that she doesn’t want a job; she doesn’t want to feel stuck in her head. I let her talk some more and she came to realization on why she felt that way. I basically heard that my wife feels like she is getting left behind, feels more like a burden and doesn’t want to be left by the rising tide. I decided to reach out and hold her hand as we walked. Went out with a buddy and had lunch while I was home. I am making it a point to have more male friendships at home. Wookie pointed out to me that I don’t have a developed male group at home and need one. So I am working on getting out with my buddy on a regular basis. The tattoo artist I go to has some sponsors and asked if I would be willing to model some clothing for them after my last session, I was more than happy to help him out since he gives me a great rate and always gives me free merch. I told my wife about it, she asked “can I come too.” I told her “only if you want to have fun.” So we spent the day taking photos at different locations around town. I was pretty stoked because it was cheap and easy social proof. It says -I am a guy that gets to go do cool shit- Got lots of likes and love on insta from it, a few chicks added me and I decided to confirm them. In the past I wouldn’t add them so not to upset my wife. I figured a little passive dread can’t hurt. Plus you never know if I may need a back up down the road. Went on a short road trip to a concert, went all out, bought the tickets months ago, pre-paid parking, valet and pit passes. This will most likely be the last time I see this band and wanted to enjoy myself. Got to the hotel and smashed with the wife. Got lime scooters and lead the way to an early dinner. After dinner I took her sight seeing and then off to the concert. Had a great time, lots of closeness, kissing and dancing. Next morning while waiting for the valet my wife turned to me and told me how luckily she feels to be with me, I decided to go cocky funny, with a smile I replied “I know babe, you are lucky as shit” she laughed and agreed. I usually always reply to a compliment with “thanks”, because I have felt weird giving the “I know” reply. Seemed like the right time and so I went for it. The nice guy in me never wanted to come off too “cocky” but fuck it, she really is lucky. The ride home was super fun, got a little road head, talked sex and even had a black hawk helicopter pace us about 30’ off the deck for about 5 miles which was super cool to see. She raved about the total experience and I didn’t down play it one bit. For me it drove home the point that I am a cool high value person to be around, and any chick would be crazy not to want to do these cool things with me if they add value also. I was willing to take the trip alone or take a buddy if her attitude had been shitty the week leading up to the concert. In the past I would have taken a my wife along regardless of her attitude. This last part is important and the only place I can talk about it so here you are. Really it gives a broader picture to my situation and then I am not leaving some huge detail out. I range more on the kink side of life and prefer a D/s style sexlife. While on the drive home my wife brought up if I would consider giving her a collar and what I thought about her being my official sub. I told her that it’s a lot of work, and I am not interested in training someone who isn’t going to take it serious or wants to play bratty. I dislike bratty and I am not into funishment. Which are problems I have had with her in the past. I explained my expectations and the behavior I wouldn’t tolerate. I was honest and blunt as I could be. I told her that she needed to search and ask herself if she was ready for that type of submission. I decided that it’s not up to me to figure if she is ready, that if I was willing to do this that I would be unwavering in my role. Last time I did this with her I had a huge covert contract. I wasn’t outcome independent either. So this time for me to move forward I have to abolish any covert contract I have about it, be outcome independent and develop rock solid frame. I am not in a position where I feel like I have to next her if this doesn’t workout perfectly. Life is messy and fun so I am going to approach that way.
Validation Junkie
2024-08-21 21:45:58 +0000 UTCFRIENDS Vs ACQUAINTANCES Hope you are healthy & well Rian! FYI I’m good, going through some career challenges (when it rains it fuc*ing pours), but at least there are no issues with attraction in LTR and my son is healthy. Also - Holding frame became a second nature. Right to the TOPIC of my question: Recently I parted ways with few of my friends, who I knew for 3 - 5 of years. The main reason me deciding to part ways, was that I’ve lost quite a lot of respect for them due to these reasons: FRIEND 1 - he is your typical serial monogamist, “blue pill alpha”, always first to call a guy insecure for having standards. A year ago he started dating a single mother, moved her and her kid in his apartment after few months of dating while putting her on a pedestal etc. At the beginning of him starting to date the single mom, I sent him one of Rich’s video about single moms, advising him just to think about it twice cause I care about him and just want him best, which he ignored and said that it doesn’t apply to him. Also in the past he has been expressing some “woke” beliefs, took multiple jabs without a serious reason etc. Lately, I have realised that the only things we had in common was gym, and “business mindset” FRIEND 2 - few years back divorced his “attention wh0re” wife, who used to post half naked photos on ig, and doesn’t respect him etc. (he follows her on social media to this day) Not too long ago, in a friend group in the mountains he Displayed being selfish not leaving some of us eggs for breakfast, because “he needs protein” not caring about his so called “friends” who also workout and need protein. Also since his divorce he started acting weird, always wants to have his last word, thinking that he is better than everyone etc. also acting like a “girl” - always on the phone texting, always asking friends to take photos or videos of him flexing or doing some cringe shit so he can post it on instagram to “thirst trap” more girls. I am all fine with this “single guy shit” in moderation but not ALL THE TIME when you are with your boys. Due to me losing a lot of respect for these so called “friends”, I started distancing myself away to the point where few weeks ago, I had to overtly tell one of them that we just are too different and we should part ways. Cause they started to annoy me in general. The QUESTION: To me, the most important thing in a friendship is LOYALTY and RESPECT. If a man decides to be a “cuck” by raising another man’s kid, is FAT or falling for woke agenda- I can’t respect him. If a man betrays me, or is being gullible for something like “plandemic” taking injections, lying even about small things or by his actions shows that he only looks for his OWN best interests - I can’t trust a man like this. After considering all this, the pool of men who I can respect and trust gets small. I still have few friends who I’ve known for 10+ years, but it would great to have more. Does my standards for a FRIEND sound unrealistic to you? Also HOW would you recommend going about finding new friends with similar values? Would love to hear your take on it Johnny
Johnny Bravo
2024-08-21 21:29:10 +0000 UTChttps://therationalmale.com/2011/09/12/the-myth-of-the-lonely-old-man/ The world will try to get you against your own best interest for every one else's sake. Try shit out, see if you like it, if you don't try other shit. You ain't going to get a vision navel gazing, you have to try shit out.
Op Sec
2024-08-21 20:16:01 +0000 UTCIt wasn't bad until > The next day, I went downtown got a nice big breakfast, ogled the dozens of cute girls around and felt better. I can ogle girls all day long on the internet. If they aren't fucking, or doing something for you they are useless. Have your own mental point of origin. What is it about this situation that makes you feel good. Did you do something that you should feel good about? Ex and new guy. Don't worry about that because it is useless for you. Try shit to find out what works. Perhaps on one of those girls you ogled. The goal is to get rejections so you can figure out what not to do. All that bs about dhv stories, is just another way for you to qualify yourself.
Op Sec
2024-08-21 20:12:30 +0000 UTCI don't lift. I don't write field reports. I am 33. It's probably my 3 rd or 4th field report posted here for the last 2-3 years. This is what happend during that time. I had multiple (max 4) plates while married I had been falsely accused of rape. Had pagget shredder syndrome from lifting Had radial nerve injury which almost made me useless at my career (but I almost recovered and still killin it at work). My father died. Found out that at the beginning of my red pill journey my wife was/ or still is do not care (mostly), cheating on me. It started in the times of my fat, nice guy syndrome. I found out 3 years later. In that time I have build a house ( I have minimal debt which I will pay off in 1.5 years, and only because I was ill for a few months), bought two cars , had two kids, 20 year olds are dying to jump my pants. ( I have active plates). I don't fuck women I do not like. Still struggling with diet and getting fat now and then. I am wondering how to approach my life and my marriage in the future. Where to put my focus. What do I focus on in my career. I have fought in a amateur mhuainthai fight ( I lost). Every now and then I need to jump back in to the patron to get that selfish asshole mindset because the whole world wants to shame me into my old self again. I am never going back. But I am scared of becoming this lonely old man And also feel uncomfortable leaving my wife after her prime year's just to enjoy a string of 20 year olds. I am looking for a vision which is clearly not monogamy. I am looking for wisdom how to approach what lies ahead. Or maybe I'll be dead tomorrow. You never know.
Bluntscissors
2024-08-21 20:02:40 +0000 UTCSet up a first date for later this week. When she asked what to do, I had to do a George Costanza mental behavior shift from the Opposite episode of Seinfeld. In my head, I was planning out a more extensive activity further away from my place, but decided to just trust the advice on keeping it simple – so I just told her a dive bar location (near me) and a time and kept the texting conversation minimal instead of having a back and forth about coordinating places and schedules. It worked out and she agreed. I’ve reviewed the feedback from past field reports and am trying to connect my weaknesses with the mental model in my head. My current mental model is that the key areas of game are: attractiveness (looks and behavior), social opportunities, approach, and logistics. My biggest weaknesses from the past field reports are approach and logistics. I’m going to keep approaching and got the Mystery Method book to read over the next couple weeks. I’m having some difficulty from what I think is the residual anger phase. While I broke up with my ex in December, due to my living circumstances, I still see my ex regularly maybe 2-3x a week for 5-10 min and over the past month I would say we are able to have normal conversations and then we go on with our lives. The anger comes from when my ex talks to me normally and picking at the food in her teeth and then switching to being cute and innocent around other guys. It sucks. There’s this guy in particular that she gets nervous around and does multiple shit tests with – you should do this for me kind of things. I’ll see him comply with her demands and fail the shit tests, but she’ll still show signs of still being attracted to him afterwards which pisses me off because he failed the shit tests, and I don’t understand the lack of consequences. After taking time to pause and telling my brain to shut up, I focused on using this as a learning moment – what did the guy do to get that interest – stories with DHVs of travel, giving meaningful souvenirs, having a girlfriend, and because of already having a girlfriend he can treat the ex as someone to flirt with – not making her a priority, being aloof, not being invested, being positive and consistently being light-hearted and joking. Then I reminded myself that it’s not about trying to win her over, it’s about building myself up so I get to a point where I unequivocally have frame and effortlessly demonstrate attractive behaviors. This past week, I was contemplating on making her a plate, but given my emotional responses, I realized I’m not currently equipped to handle that. The next day, I went downtown got a nice big breakfast, ogled the dozens of cute girls around and felt better. Key Thoughts - Continuing to set up dates - Reviewed feedback: need to work on Mystery Method, approaches, frame - Trying to learn more about not being unattractive and residual anger phase
lemon
2024-08-21 19:38:06 +0000 UTC
