Patreon, R&P Q&A #252

How much Tongkat ali are you taking? What's the brand you're taking?

Ban Mido

@So Woke... 1. Yes, I have read it. I'm using some of the concepts, but not all. 2. Thank you. I'll check it out. 3. Thank you. @Covert... She already engaged a lawyer. This is a big city and family law has a lot of players.

Dave

Once infidelity has been discovered, is it best practice to keep that knowledge under wraps until the scorched earth plan can be developed? What about if that information can be used as leverage for a more favorable separation agreement in order to save her the shame?

Volare Alto

I haven’t posted in awhile but not thinking I had too much to say but realizing how typing these out helped me flesh things out and putting them down helped me think through things more. The biggest thing I want to square away is my dating life. The other thing is my kids with my ex. I haven’t gone to church in years because in part because everyone turned their backs on me and shunned me after the divorce even though she was the one that was a turbowhore and split the family up. The other part was that I already have been having my doubts for years. Perfect time to move on from all that. The problem is my son has expressed and interest in going back. He’s a great kid, 4.0 student and star football player and never gives me trouble. So I don’t want to deny him going. Also his mother started taking them. So I took them for their sake and an assistant pastor gave a typical bluepill sermon that I was afraid of them being exposed to but they called it out right away and we had a talk about it. The main pastor honestly seems about as redpill as one can be, very promasculinity have seen him in my gym and the guy is ripped. I don’t prefer to go but they want to so trying to sort that out. He seems like the best option if that’s what they want. My ex recently got remarried and is constantly trying to upstage me in everything, including buying their affection. I won’t go into it all but it’s extensive and quite obvious. So the church attendance is just another instance of that it feels like. Right before she got remarried she stopped by my place in the middle of the day while the kids were at school and was trying to have sex with me. I rewote and left of the details for brevity but definitely what she was doing. Just to say she has no conscious about doing this and definitely has no shame about trying to manipulte the kids. Anyway just trying to figure out how to deal with an upstaging ex who is convinving , undermining and not a trusthworthy person. I’m trying to pay off things and build a warchest and feel the pressure when they come home telling me all the things she’s buying them. I get a sense she’s making comments about her buying them all these extra things and how I’m not. In the meantime I just paid off my car and am trying to build savings. As for dating I have an on again off again plate I guess you would say. She frequently pushes for a relationship, I’ll say no to it she’ll disappear for a week or so then come back and ask if we can go back to what we’re doing and then the cycle repeats. I could hit her up and fuck all weekend, she’ll probably hit me up. But it’s growing tiresome and probably keeping me from meeting someone new. She changed her custody schedule to meet mine and so that takes a chunk of the time I could me meeting someone else if I’m with her. Last time she hit me up said she “just wanted to catchup and that’s all. No sex” I laughed and said “oh that’s what’s on your mind huh? What do you want to drink?” She came really late after I tired to call her it went straight to voicemail. To make it short basically she came over from a date I believe. After awhile she said “you know we’re having sex”. I got a good chuckle out of that. It just feels like more trouble than it’s worth at this point. As for dating in general, coming back to the religion part this is where it also plays in. Most of my good friends outside of that now live in other states. I cut almost everyone off from that old life except for a couple of guys. One is married and henpecked by his wife so can never do anything and wouldn’t be going to bars with me or picking up women. The other one just went through his 2nd divorce from the chick I tried to warn him not marry but he’s not in the place to go out and doesn’t drink. Another friend never wants to go out and just wants to drink at home. So I’m going out on my own. This girl I was seeing last year got me banned on all the major dating apps when I broke it off with her so that’s pretty much out. At work there’s about 4 women I’m really friendly with and we flirt quite a bit. I got a lot of them going by bringing a girl to a work party that none of them were at but word got around the office quick. They all come up and start talking to me at in work parties or events and hang around me the whole time. One who is married but always messaging me and wanting to go the coffee. That’s all more trouble than it’s worth I think. And work is generally out for me, but I do enjoy gaming them a little. I’ve been trying to nail down my logistics and thought the local bar was the perfect place and have tried to get that going for months. But there only seems to be unattractive women there. No matter what night it is, trivia night during the week or the weekends. I’ve met people there but it’s usually guys or couples. So that one is just out even thought it's right near me. I went to see my neighbor/friend play at a different bar further away and it was night and day. Lot of attractive women and his hot ex stopped me and said hey and I said “hey haven’t seen you in awhile” and she “yeah…” and made and awful face. Didn’t mean it that way but fumbled that one. Will probably run into her again. Went out with this one chick that was a 5 and thought ok slump buster whatever. Found out she’s running a rotation and has a 3 year old. I think I unconsciously made a face and killed the mood on that one. No loss. Change of venue seems to be the key so trying to nail that down. In the meantime I’ve been trying to find a bartending gig to be out there and looking for events and things downtown to be involved in. But still haven’t found an ideal spot but will keep looking. Basically just trying to find the best place or any place to meet women.

Daniel

Marathon is for young light people. Don’t be foolish. Go for hikes (slow incline), swim, gym, bike machine. Protect your knees. Or you will gain allot of weight. Also: I would not frame divorce law in an anti male way. Forget the victim mindset. Everything both of you touched is split half and half. You are trying to get more than half, as she will do the same.

Cousin Eddie

Structural issues: you are outcome dependent, logical, probably have a heavy vibe or tone, self deprecating, Focus on being in the present and having no outcome dependence. Airport (easiest place to meet people). : I walk up: my ticket says basic on it, is that the loading group? How dare they! Don’t they know who I am! Basic! I ramble…. Are you basic as well? I am no basic bitch! Look at my shoes, solid walking shoes! 49.99$ But you have to have no outcome in mind. Just have fun, Day game gives a simple escalation structure. Learn how to enjoy life….

Cousin Eddie

Good ooda with Christmas/ex…. Spotted, labeled, redirected and acted.

Cousin Eddie

this is a diary. I feel like a user tampon after reading it. And you are here for what? Be specific. To me it sounds like: money, fulfilling hobbies, endless casual relationships. All add up to a shallow existence. You are having trouble building deep and meaningful relationships. ? How do you run through 30 girls and not connect with any of them? A proper ooda field note would be good.

Cousin Eddie

Excellent: you say that all navel-gazing was a waste of time and proceed to spend a whole FR navel-gazing. This place isn't your dear diary. It's good to realize stuff but it's even better to do stuff.

Owning My Shit

Fr21 Well all that pre Christmas “navel gazing”, and depression ended up being a waste of time. It was probably the best Christmas I’ve had in years, spent the entire weekend before with the kids, doing our Christmas, playing and just having fun. Had some family and friends over for pizza and games, it was just easy and drama free. Rian you’re right. All these years of living with drama, other peoples’ bullshit expectations, fighting, stress etc. have definitely made me crave them at times now that I don’t have them. I’ve spent a lot of time trying to get rid of this stress craving, but it definitely bubbles up from time to time. I’ve paid off all debt, got rid of toxic people, simplified my living situation, all in search of freedom; the only things I can’t remove at this time are child support, alimony and Canadian inflation lol. I can see the change in my field reports, they’re getting pretty boring, but I see this as a good thing. Ever since I read your first book I’ve been chasing my vision, rather trying to find it, but you said it in your last video, take your time. I’m going to try to just stay the course this year, focus on the gym, my kids and making memories; if my vision becomes clear great, if not at least I’m still getting better.

ErikTheRed

Do you mean the girl from the second para? Yes I should've just been chill instead of overthinking things

Ban Mido

"Went right in, approached the whole table.". That alone is a fucking win. What was your opener? "I enjoyed all the attention I got but drew a line in the sand where I don’t make out with girls publicly and then regret it the next morning." - perfect. to each his own comfort line. Sex is easy. That is what you want to take from all that. Whenever a girl demands extra work for it, you no longer think "Well, that's what a man has to do...". Nope, "I'll move on to someone who isn't trying to create hoops". Consider trying a stack of Zmb6, ashwaghanda and omega-3 along with tongkat and see if it changes your bloodwork. If you want, add boron too. I've heard of people doubling their levels with this stack. If you're considering going on TRT, check out Huberman's videos on it and Renaissance Periodization's videos too. "I was fucking my wife and said something like lets then invite her to be the third next time. She then replied by you can go fuck her without me. " " Should I lean in more in that and how? " I've done that too: the fantasy of being cheated on. I like to say "I'll bring a friend of yours here and fuck her in front of you, what do you think bitch?" while she crazy hot horny while I'm fucking her. I also make her scream (and this shit written down is funny as fuck) "I'm a cuck!" and "Cheat on me master, please!". Repeat something along those lines for a few sessions until both of you are comfortable with it being part of your sex life.

Owning My Shit

Fuckup avoidance game, sometimes all you need to do is chill.

Op Sec

Generally speaking, beware of anytime you're giving something to someone. Always ask yourself: "If this person were to throw the gift in the trash right in front of me, would I be pissed off?". If the answer is yes, you have a covert contract and are not ready to give without strings attached.

Owning My Shit

About the first date example interactions, either she doesn't know how to convey sarcasm/jokes or you're unable to read people. I think it's you. There are times when I'm not in the "game" mode and I think and respond like a gamma. Loosen up before a date by listening to some standup comedy. I personally listen to some metal/rock music to get pumped up while walking to the date location. 3 hours is a long date imo; it tells me you don't have a standardized logistics in place. Write down a logistics plan of where you'll take the girl at what milestones. Eg: my logistics is bar -> ice cream -> park/home. And I usually cut the bar time around 1hr; just enough for 1 round of drinks. Do you have an exclusive relationship with the vacation girl? If not, why do you feel the need to "hide the badness" about seeing other girls? If she asks, just say you were hanging out with a friend and don't have to share details. Regarding the housework, I know the feeling of wanting to take care of others and be useful. That's why we're here; to learn to be useful only when others have earned it. Don't get into the habit of care taking or fixing her shit. It should be rewards for good behavior on her part

Ban Mido

@HillBillyheaven, interesting. I have a similar problem where I don't know what exactly I want in terms of a family/wife/LTR. For now, I'm just focused on my career, fitness, and other goals while learning to spin plates. My thinking is as I spin plates I'll just get more experience and from experience I'll have the wisdom to decide what to do for the family goals. Maybe this helps you

Ban Mido

FR: * The silent chick (23y/HB5) from last week's report texted on Friday evening, saying she was confused about seeing me again. I asked her what's the confusion. She said I'm funny and made her squirt but I'm not as tall as she hoped and not as muscular as she wanted. Also she wasn't sure about my uncircumcised cock. I just laughed as I didn't care since she's not that hot and also the conversations and sex was boring; also had other options. I fogged telling her that I can't change her feelings and her standards are valid. She wanted to know more about how I felt and basically wanted me to guide her out of her confusion. I told her it's easier to explain these things in person but then she tried to video call me. I declined and told her I'm busy with some last minute office work. I was not going to waste my time doing a video call just to DEER about my height. I later went out with another date but this girl kept texting to get my attention. I texted back we can talk tomorrow. * This girl is giving me an opportunity to learn how to be an asshole properly * Friday evening I went out with the 23y/HB6 from last week's report (the emotional one who wanted anal). She had a car so went for a drive and got some pizza. I didn't run any particular game technique; just bantered like how I would with a friend with occasional cocky-funny/agree-amplify if I thought I was getting some shit. Basically I used STFU, cocky-funny, agree-&-amplify. But also got her opening up more about her childhood. While walking around I mentioned how I didn't expect to see her again after the first hookup and told her I liked hanging out with her after the first date. She replied saying it can be hard to control your feelings when you're hooking up. Felt silly sharing how I felt after that * We came back to my place, fooled around. I was getting tired so we just slept and we hooked up in the morning. She was very affectionate while cuddling; asking questions seeking my validation. She told she's a very anxious-type person * I asked her what she'd rate my bedroom performance. She said she liked that I was thoughtful of her pleasure but didn't particularly enjoy when I laid on top of her and gave short thrusts. So I have this thing where my wrists get tired of planking while thrusting in missionary and I rest by lying down on top of the girl and make shorter thrusts. Curious if others know a better way to do missionary * She went home and texted me photos of her cats and music suggestions. I can clearly tell she was more invested now. She kept texting while driving back to California; sending me more music, photos of scenary she saw on the road, etc. * While texting she called out that I'm only calling her "cute" and not "hot". I didn't DEER. Instead I replied she's not a hot pocket. She doubled down saying I must be ashamed to put my dick in a hideous girl like her. I replied she's not hideous just a dummy. She stopped texting. This is where I would usually reach out to check if the girl is upset with me or offer some kind olive branch. I tried resisting that instinct but ended up rationalizing that she's an "anxious girl" and texted that the dummy comment was a joke. She responded she knows that. Been distant after that * Was listening to your Red Morning show on "Dread isn't supposed to be fun, kind or masculine" and you mentioned the way a guy responds to the silent treatment from a girl tells you a lot about him. It struck me that I need to review the basics again with NMMNG * On Saturday evening, I took plate 1 (36y/HB4) out for a drink and tacos. Tired but I had fun; went back to my place but I was too tired to smash. We cuddled and I shared a little of the bad stuff that happened to me in the last few years. She also said she's ok with being on a rotation as long as I don't invite her on the same day after another girl. * On Sunday evening, I took the silent chick (calling her plate 2) out for a drink. Was dreading a boring date but luckily she was a little more communicative. Got a drink at a nice bar and went back to her place to smash. Later I joked that I'm still not the tall, muscular, circumcised cock man she wants. She laughed a bit and said she's starting to like me. She wanted me to stay the night but I really just wanted to go home and sleep. Bid her goodnight and went back to my place. She's been behaving a bit clingy since the first date; once I stopped responding to her texts properly. On Monday morning she shared a photo of her journal where she wrote how she was admiring my hair and looks and asking herself how soon is it to "declare" her feelings. I was initially concerned I put my dick in crazy with this one but over the last few days she's been getting the hint that I can't text all day and her texts are mostly in the evenings now

Ban Mido

I've seen a bunch of progress in your last two reports. > She lamented, "You're asking me for sex every day!" Yes you saw your mistake. And yes "Damn straight, baby!" Like it's the most normal thing in the world to want to fuck your wife because it really fucking is. > Later, I thought that I could have said, "And you think denying me sex is going to fix it?" But that would have been a bad idea. Well first of all she didn't say no. Even that response would have been better than tucking your tail between your legs and leaving. "Things haven't been good between us", "You're right things haven't been good between us, Let's make them better". Just keep in mind occasionally calling your wife a cunt isn't the worst thing in the world. I do see a covert contract in you going to Mexican with her. Why did you go, what behavior are you rewarding. Perhaps it's ok, she's showing some interest. However, she's sending cheap investment signals. Comfort seeking behavior, she wants to take some value and you are so thirsty for any attention you give it to her. Perhaps at this stage that is ok, idk, but see it for what it is.

Op Sec

I identified a covert contract I had. I’ve been wanting her to get me coffee more often. I figured if I started “leading” getting her coffee she might follow my example. It’s a small thing but it was rather insidious. Finding a small one like this opens me up to the possibility I may still have other ones. I just finished reading Mode One. I enjoyed the read and I think it’s helping me be more direct. Of course men want to fuck women and that’s ok. Mode One recommended to read Radical Honesty so I read that too. I get what that book is trying to do but the first recommendation is to go to your wife and dump all your shit onto her. While lying is validation seeking, hiding the badness is nice guy behavior, sometimes shit is not the other person's business.

Op Sec

Just to be clear OWS, don’t want to keep her just checking in about how plate younger whores nearby my home. Haha

So Woke da Wookie

Fucking hilarious

So Woke da Wookie

I hear you on the overthinking. And shit coming at you from all directions. However I think the fear of been bitten in the ass is one of the one things that contributes unpleasantness to my life. Because there’s always shit than can hit you from out of left field no matter how well prepped you are.

So Woke da Wookie

Yeah, what OWS said. You need to get your divorce prep in order now. Get ahead of the curve. Otherwise you’ll become reactive and bitch out.

So Woke da Wookie

Maybe your roadmap is to fuck girls on the side while treating your woman like a sparring partner. Beware of ditching her though. You don’t want one be iamstevemcqueen 2.0

Owning My Shit

That’s easy for work, lifting, and pretty much everything else except for family. Part of me thinks it would be nice to have a couple of kids of my own but part of me doesn’t.

Hillbillyheaven

I just met a giant whore how do I keep her? You don’t, she works to keep you and you let her. Sounds like she is sticking around. You sound like you are getting oneitis and a bunch of anxiety around losing her. Take her off the pedestal.

Op Sec

Oh that’s good. I’m using that in work too.

So Woke da Wookie

Gearo, first of all what Covert said is bang on. Secondly, the first 3/4 of your post was all about what you did and choose to do and that made your life better. This is a huge jump from where you were a short while ago. Which was way more in your wife’s frame. As Covert points out, you swing back to that towards the end. His advice is the solution for that. Good progress Gearo, your post reads like your well on your way to being your own man now.

So Woke da Wookie

been in here 1.5 years. posted a bunch. 2 kids, 5/7 . gained a few good kg,78kg, 12-13% bodyfat, starting to look pretty good in the mirror. read all the books, relationship is pretty dead. i was doing all the stuff but i wasnt able to stop negotiating desire. it was the only action i would get and i was so attachwed to it as the only validation i recieved. despite it being shit sex and me asking for fucking handjobs and blowjobs so effortless it was more annoying than satisfying... i digress. last two months i got something on the side plate and it made shit way easier to detach. catch and release didnt flick that switch for me but this did. i was coming at my marrige and sexlife from lack and desperation, now i have changed that fundamentally. i am not negotiating desiire. actually i stopped even seperating sex from intimacy. i know you dont reccomend but i wss getting rejected from that shit too. i can see it in her body language that she dosnt like it, and tried to avoid it. for a year io have laughed it off, smack on the ass here and there, hand on the shoulder, knees touching during dinner. she is not attracted to me, this stuff did not work for me. its proably going to ba a waste of the next 6 or so months of my life but i was more open to the idea of calling it quite on the marrige, lately the last 2 months things are changing not for the better, but more like what i would have expected to see, and other i read about, in the first few months of reading these book and implementing dread. she has been purposely less sexually and physically available, i can tell. 99 percent sure she isnt cheating. if she did it would make for a easier exit for me. sad huh. 2 confort tests recently. about me booking dthings without consulting her. " you always just expect me to be home, so you book your gym and PT sessions, and climbing without asking." your always allowed to do what you want and i cant and i need to ask. THEN i called and booked my tonsils to be taken out a in a few months. when i got of the phone she was PISSED. "There you go again, you idint even discuss this with me" "isnt this something we should have talked about " the last 3 months is where i have been my most attractive and the most unemotional. i dont know what im expecting here but she is far from a preson i want to spend my life with but i am a little intrested in wherre this is going at the moment because there is sings of life.

moby dick

Happy new year! A quick recap from our company christmas party. Had dinner with partners, drinks, shots. Later me and one buddy went on our own to explore our citys nightlife. Slow evening, one day before christmas. Went to a bar, saw a table of 8 girls and other tables were a huge sausage fest. Went right in, approached the whole table. Chat with the group for a while as I saw a cute one go to the bar for a drink. I joined her and isolated her at the bar. Had a chat quite long, she enjoyed my company and didn’t rush back to her friends. At one moment a chick came to check on her and she replied “relax, he is cool, we are all good”. They invited us to a small club, agin really quiet, max 50 ppl and like a private party. Danced, shoot the shit, enjoyed ourselves. Had two chicks from the group slow dancing, touching and grinding on me. Wanting to hold my hand and to make out. I enjopyed all the attention I got but drew a line in the sand where I don’t make out with girls publicly and then regret it the next morning. If I want to do it I will do it discreetly. I rearly go to clubs anymore but from that night I can tell that getting laid would be easier than I Taught. I have put in the work, its good to see the dividends now Tongkat ali. Got my bloodwork back. Increase in testosterone by about 30%. From 550 to 705. Estrogen low. Luteinizing hormone 5,25. It works. Considering it is only 30-50€ per bottle its cheap. Would reccomend as an alternative to test with that before juming on TRT. Also side effects – no bad ones for me individually – good ones – harder wood, higher libido, reduced stress and anxiery, also a more calm overall. Sex – smashed once this week. At afternoon, no kids at home. Easy no resistance. No starfish, all wet and enthusiastic. At some point our dirty talk started to involve our neigbours wife. I was fucking my wife and said something like lets then invite her to be the third next time. She then replied by you can go fuck her without me. Somehow that got her really wet and exited. I have seen something like that before in her how she gets wet and horny from the idea of me fucking another chick or in her mind shes not sure if I fucked the chick or not. Should I lean in more in that and how?

Architect

I started my “reading assignments”, read Stirlings “Ultimate Guide to performance anxiety”, “Confessions of a reformed incel”, “The manipulated man” and started with “The book of pook.” I like reading the chapters and then watching the corresponding episode of your playlist. It gives me book club vibes lol. Also started to read “Day bang”. I continued with Stronglifts 5x5, but had to put it on hold this week as I got a bit of a cold, maybe Covid. I need more alpha on dates, I think: I’ve been on a date with a girl from an OLD app. I had fun, but there was a couple of minutes where she teased me a lot. I think I could have reacted better. She asked me about my family and siblings. As I told her that I am the oldest, she said “That is very obvious”. Me: “Why do you think that's obvious?” She: “It’s not, I am just kidding.” And a few minutes later we were talking about elephants. We are both non-natives, so we are wondering what elephant trunks are called. Me, losing interest in the topic: “Yeah, nose, whatever.” She: “That's so toxic.” Me: “Why do you think that's toxic?” She: “It’s not, I am just kidding.” Me: “Okay, haha I get it you are teasing me.” More DAREing responses could have been for the first one: Yeah I get that a lot probably because of my gray hair and my wrinkles. (AA) So are you into older guys? (Deflect) For the second one: You like that? ;) (Classic Deflect) You think *that’s* toxic? You should hear me talking about giraffes. (AA) Anyway, I believe that threw me off, I caught myself saying sorry after that too much. E.g. after a bad joke something like “Sorry that was so bad.” Anyway, it was an overall okayish first date, met in the city and wandered around, got some coffee and laughed a lot. After 3 hours she wanted to go home, as she got headaches from the coffee and the cold. She said two interesting things as she was leaving: “I think a first date should always be shorter, 2-3 hours at most.” “I think you should not really touch on the first date.” Adding “with you” in my mind here, I wonder what I should change. We set up a follow up date, but I needed to reschedule that, as I am not feeling too well. Anyway, I also wonder how I should proceed logistics wise, now that vacation girl is back. Going on dates with other girls became a little harder I guess. But if I avoid the part of the city where we both live I should be fine right? Speaking of the vacation girl. I was in a weird cycle with her. We speak and I am all infatuated with her. Then we have no contact for a couple of days, I get resentful and am motivated to talk to other girls. Then she plays all nice again and I feel bad for talking to other girls. I know this is stupid. But please tell me why, lol. Anyway, she is back and the first night was great. I came over to her house and we had sex twice. The next day I left to visit a buddy for new years eve. We both were already a little sick then, but when I came over again the next day her nose was running and she complained about aches in her body. I still stayed over and we cuddled and continued to watch a show together. She did not want to have sex, as she was sick. Understandable. I did not read “Practical female psychology” yet, but the next day felt a lot like the “Putting him to work” stage. She asked me to fetch her water, make her coffee and fetch her tissues. But I liked it, the care taking and feeling needed. I should read NMMNG once more. I even offered to drive her to the doctor, as I did not have to work, to get her a doctor's note for her work (So no PTO is used for her). Turns out she has Covid. I guess I am working from home this week. We then got something to eat and continued to watch the show. I am wondering what covert contracts were at play. Something like “If I take good care of her, she will fall in love with me and I will have a problem free life” feels kind of right. Or maybe collecting “points”, idk. But she did say “I like you” for the first time outside of sex that day. And as we were cooking in the evening her trash was full and that annoyed me and I took it out and she gave me a kiss out of the blue for that. But I guess that's a lot of “playing house” considering I only know her for two months and she was gone for one month in that time. One last thing, as I got rejected by her for sex she asked me If I am angry about that. I told her “No, maybe a little disappointed, but you’re sick so it's fine”. Unsure what to make of that.

Am I red yet

Do you like your GF?

CovertContractAttorney

RE: Lawyers. Ask the one lawyer you like, which three opposing counsel he'd hate to go against. Then, go get a consult with each of them, paying for an hour of their time. Congratulations, you've now conflicted them out so they can't go against you, and your spouse has to pick more reasonable attorneys. Likely best couple grand you've ever spent.

CovertContractAttorney

"I just got up and left." --Why? She wasn't telling you no. She was being bratty at worst. If you were horny, why leave? Here's my interpretation: You were slightly afraid/angry that she wasn't just throwing herself at you when you made a half-hearted initiation. You decided to take your ball home because you felt rejected. The thing is, you don't really don't know if she was rejecting you. Girl game is passive. I have to tell myself that repeatedly, but a girl not leaving is her inviting you to continue. So continue. As an example. Yesterday morning. Wife woke up and went and got coffee. Kids are staying at grandma's so it's just us. I lay around, wake up, I'm horny. I go downstairs. Start initiating. She's not reciprocating hard core, but she's still staying, waiting and not pushing me away. After a bit, she drags us to bedroom, and I go to poundtown. Many months ago, I would have--like you--stopped after my half hearted attempts at initiating and then gotten mad a la a covert contract. But you have to remember that girl game is basically passive. If you don't get a HARD no. I mean a hard no. then she wants you to continue. Try that mental model going forward.

CovertContractAttorney

Wave a magic wand--you can have anything you want. Want is it that you think you want?

CovertContractAttorney

It was after dinner. The wife was laying on the couch, binge-watching Netflix. I came in, straddled her on the couch, gave her a couple of kisses. Then I said, "Come on," and started to peel her throw-blanket back. She came back with, "I just gave you a BJ a few days ago." I answered with, "Good blow-jobs are like Doritos, it's hard to stop after 1." She lamented, "You're asking me for sex every day!" I think the correct move was to continue cocky-funny here and go until the hard no. But I got angry. In my head, I was thinking things like, "Why the hell is she even here?" I just got up and left. Next morning, I got up, had my coffee and breakfast, and then told her I was going to the lake. I did not offer to take her along, and she didn't ask. She stayed home and did Christmas celebration prep stuff and I had a good time at the lake. Around 4 o'clock, I texted to let her know I was going to camp over-night at the lake. I don't remember any other specific instances of trying to initiate for 2 or 3 days after that, although I must have. And I tried to be flirty and cheerful when we interacted. I think on Christmas morning, when she got up early, the kids were still asleep. I asked her to come back to bed. She just went about whatever she was doing and left the room. The day after Christmas, I had in mind a movie I wanted to go see. I considered taking the wife, but she hadn't earned a date. I figured if the kids wanted to go, I would take the whole family. If the wife asked to go, I would tell her I would take her if she wore something nice. In the end, the kids did not want to go; the wife did not ask. I went by myself. After the movie, I went to Corner Craft Brew. I opened conversations with several people. At one point, a late 20's, average blonde chick asked me if the seat next to me was free. I told her it was waiting for her, and immediately engaged her in conversation. She said she came to the place whenever she was mad. I did not ask if she was mad at the baby-daddy, or her mom, or someone else. I assumed it was better to steer toward happy topics, but I was kinda' guessing. When I went to order another drink, she got up and left. Coulda' been nothing to do with me. I had gotten her to tell me what she did for a living, the career she was studying at night for, how old the kid was, and a bit about how much trouble she got into in high school. Back at home, the wife was lying in bed, reading a book. I fully expected her to be asleep. I got in bed on my side, and put my hand on her waist. Then I started rubbing her hips. I fully expected to get Bad Body Language (BBL) in response. She did not react to my touch, but I didn't detect any BBL, so I rubbed her up for several minutes. After I while I thought, well, no bad BBL ... I should go until the hard no. I got up, closed and locked the door so the kids couldn't wander in. I walked back over to her side of the bed and put my hands on her hips, rubbed her back for a moment. When I tried to lean in to kiss her, that's when I started seeing the BBL. She said, "You know things are not good between us?" I said, "Yeah, I know." I went back over to unlock and open the door, in case any of our pets wanted in or out. Then I laid down, and went to sleep. I was more resigned than angry this time. Later, I thought that I could have said, "And you think denying me sex is going to fix it?" But that would have been a bad idea. Next morning, when I came out to the kitchen she said, "Can we go out for Mexican tonight, just me and you?" I said, "Yeah." She gave me a long hug -- seemed like a full minute -- squeezing me hard. I thought to myself, "Was last night and this conversation some kind of comfort test-like behavior?" I can't remember any event that felt like a comfort test since I started working on this stuff. She was preparing to go on a trip with our youngest child that day, and in the end, she asked me to get the mexican food, carry-out. Maybe it was just basic-bitch manipulation. I didn't get laid before she left town. While she was out of town, I was walking my dog one day. He is large, stubborn, and minimally trained. It is a battle of wills to do a walk under 2 hours. He dawdles, back-tracks, refuses to go where the human wants him to go. Sometimes I just sit down on the sidewalk until he gets the point, and follows me. While he was being his usual, defiant, self I started thinking, "Why can't this god-damned dog just be grateful that he is getting a walk at all, instead of being such a shit-head?" I guess I have some kind of covert contract thing to work out with the dog, too. And I probably need to break down and spend some time training him.

Gearo's Journey

There's no doubt that I definitely tend over think things. That's something that I probably do need to work on, but somewhat in my defense, I do have a lot of shit coming at me from all directions in my professional life, pretty much all the time. If I let my guard down on anything or ignore any details, they do tend to bite me in the ass later on

McChickenshit

Uh, I'm a multi-millionaire at the top of the business food chain in my city and I'm in the ring fighting guys half my age like 60 rounds a week? 🤣 I'm doing pretty good on that stuff. It's the other stuff that I'm struggling with and that's why I'm here. Notice, up until last week I haven't posted here in quite a while and that's the reason. I've got pretty much everything handled for the most part, but the ex-wife was creeping back in my head for some reason. Then all this shit happened. I haven't thought about her in years up until recently, and then these two occurrences happen. Very strange for sure.

McChickenshit

Been a few weeks since my last post where I talked about the girl finding my dating app. Your insight was very helpful in understanding where the guilt was coming from so I immediately re-read WISNIFG and Yes Virginia you do have to be an asshole. We had already booked a vacation and I wasn’t going to lose my money and she wasn’t either so we went. Sex was great as usual. She stayed an extra night before I had to see family for Christmas and there were a lot of tears. Knowing my nice guy tendencies, I basically just told her I wasn’t in a place to know that I’ll want to have kids 3-4 years from now while trying to avoid fixing her feelings. We said goodbye and truthfully it broke me a little seeing her cry and knowing I’d just ruined her dreams. But knowing the root of these feelings helped understand them and allowed me to make what’s probably the best decision for now. The truth is, as a divorced dude who raised a step-child from the age of 2-12 (and of course the ex basically made it so I can’t see him any more while claiming it was his choice), I really don’t know what I want out of life right now. The plan was originally to retire from the military in a few years then use the pension and disability to travel/live in other countries. But I definitely became attached to this girl and I could see the oneitis looming. Trying to prevent falling back into my old habits. Guess I’ll need some time to figure out what I want as I probably got too attached to this one.

Hillbillyheaven

What Op Sec said. Open everyone - men, women, old people, everyone. Join classes - you don’t have to keep them up just accelerate the chances of making new friends, plates and associates.

So Woke da Wookie

1. Have you checked out the Better Beta’s Divorce Guide on the Married Redpill’s Reddit? Well worth it. 2. Splitting by Ben Eddy - great guide for dealing with High Conflict divorce situations. 3. I employed a Divorce Consultant to double check my Lawyers advice. this was so valuable. And reduced costs.

So Woke da Wookie

6 years? You're thinking about and are stuck on shit your girl did 6 years ago? Regardless, if it was 6 days, focussing on her and the past isn't going to do shit for you. All you posted was shit about her. What are YOU doing? You said you want to focus on boxing and money. What have you done to achieve those two goals? All you said is WANT and nothing about DID.

Dave

Read day bang. https://heartiste.org/2011/01/11/just-say-something/ However, you can start by making eye contact. Ok, you made eye contact a few times. It used to be normal to ask for the time. However, you can just say "hi". You can talk to a dude or an old lady, or fat one. It took me time, and I took all these baby steps. At the airport "Are you on this flight?". Sometimes you just say one thing and scram. Lower the bar and work up to it. The point is to take action and to kill your ego. Get there by dragging yourself kicking and screaming.

Op Sec

Fitness – Feeling pretty good, I’ve been doing weights 3 times a week. I signed up for a marathon because a couple friends are doing it and I thought why not do it again. My body isn’t used to the mileage because I haven’t done long distance stuff for about 5 years. I gained about 10 pounds in December on my big pants diet. I find when I do the Starting Strength program, my weight goes up quickly. I’m 226 pounds right now and was 212-215 a couple months ago. I’m going to eat super clean for the next three weeks before I go away for a week for vacation. I should be back to 212 by the end of February. My right knee is a bit of a mess with a golf-ball sized baker cyst. We’ll see how it does when I’m running a lot of miles and doing squats/deadlifts three times a week. Divorce – I checked out three lawyers. The first was a by the book dork court chick. The second was a sarcastic and cynical older guy and the third was a high priced best in the City smooth talker. I picked the middle path, just like Buddha and Goldilocks. I appreciated that he was honest when he said I should have beat my kid a few times in our first meeting. That’s the kind of energy I want to bring to the divorce negotiation. All three more or less said the same thing to me. That tells me it doesn’t really matter who you hire because the Courts treat this like an accounting exercise. So the only way I come out ahead is through negotiation and I think I’m better at that than most lawyers. If I have a lawyer that has an edge to him, it’s going to be more useful to me in negotiation than otherwise. My position and strategy needs to be less predictable to the other side and that’s what an edgy lawyer can help bring to the table. In my ex-wife’s head, I’m a very unpredictable person, so it’s going to be believable to her and hence, her lawyer. For example, she suspects I might pack up and move to South America. To this point, I’ve slow played it and stopped paying my ex-wife money, pending legal advice. She told my son that I 'have to' pay her alimony while awaiting legal resolution. I wanted to show her I have more clout than she assumes and whatever she thought her lawyer told her, wasn't actually the case. Delay and attacking her character are the only tools I really have in a legal system tilted against men. I’m also quite aware that as a professional (engineer), the worst clients are other professionals. Lawyers, doctors and dentists are challenging clients, so I will make sure I’m not that guy and stay in my lane. I selectively communicate with my ex-wife. I don’t engage her or discuss anything besides logistics (e.g. house bills). I ghost about half her communications. She’s tried to shit test that with a strange accusation claiming her friends saw me somewhere that I wasn’t. That, or she’s losing her mind. I had a call with my son’s counsellor a couple weeks ago and she indirectly suggested that my ex-wife wasn’t in a good mental space. I saw a photo of her from Christmas and she didn’t look good with tired and depressed eyes. That’s a big difference from my mental space and a good sign that she won’t want to drag out the divorce. Her father has money, and can help her out, but he’s also a cheap bastard so he’ll want her to settle when given the chance if that’s indeed the case. Girlfriend – All good. She cooks, cleans, gives massages and isn’t a pain in the ass. She follows my lead and wants to. My only real issue is actually too much sex. When she’s with me, she’s wanting my dick every chance she gets. She can’t believe how many and how quickly I give her orgasms. I can usually give her three or four in one session. She thinks there is no way I haven’t been cheating on my wife all those years because my performance doesn’t match up. She’s not wrong, but I tell her it’s because of her.

Dave

You feel better after another victim puke? What are you trying to accomplish?

Op Sec

Field report #1 I'll do my best to spare everyone the Batman but still provide some context. I've read NMNG & did go through Rian's series on it prior to the book & content from the rule 0 crew, Glover and others. What I've learned from it- I've got a bunch of shit mental models, like being a good guy to everyone, putting my wants & needs last was the only way to get anywhere in life or laid. Starting to shed that. It's been about 2 years since finding the RP. The GF of 5 years is a bit of a type 3 captain, the 1st 3 years were brutal with shit tests, accusations of other women, being hen pecked, power games & disrespect. I've since evolved to be less of a sperg, less validation seeking & less rewarding of bad behavior. The result was most of that has stopped. I'm going to mostly leave her out of this field report, this one's for me & getting my shit together. Some of the things I'm working on- talking to a stranger at least once a day. Struggling with opening people & getting a good conversation going, being comfortable in my own skin & projecting confidence. I keep falling back to the default programming of avoiding people, feeling ashamed of myself & projecting anger as a defense mechanism. I did finally take a trip alone, Vegas baby! Great time, raced cars, trucks, go carts, seen Battle bots & yes went out in the desert to get my need for some strange met. Do I wish I could get another woman to fuck me without paying her? Yes. Still Blue pill with no game. Did have good conversations with all of the Uber drivers I rode with. But when I was waiting to board the 1st flight out to Vegas I was sitting across from an attractive girl in her early 20s I didn't say shit. She was giving me IOI's & I still choked, she finally got up & initiated conversation with another dude behind me. It's a wake up call for me, I need to at least open my mouth & fail if nothing else. What do i want? I've known this for several years- I want abundance, to be able to spin plates. The Gf slapped the goggles off of me some time ago, i don't owe her shit. I want to have a good circle of friends again, my 1itus for the series of ltr's I've been in has left me with none. I want to be valued by people personally & professionally. Do I need to look into pickup type content or general how not to be an Rtist content ?

Cfitness

Man, this might make a intriguing vignette in a novel or a movie. But it’s a movie in your head. Stop thinking so much. You’ll wash all this shit that’s stuck in your head away with more deliberate actions, even if you’re just trying stuff out and fucking up here and there. The only thing anyone here can chime in on is the stuff with your back. And look man, that’s 5% of your Dear Diary entry.

So Woke da Wookie

A Different Kind of Christmas Roast: First, Christmas separated. All worked out perfectly and with lower stress than when I had to coordinate with the X on everything. It was clear that the X really wants to wield power and control over me. Breadcrumbing details about the kids and gifts and logistics. We had agreed to Xmas day at her place with the kids - from pressie opening to dinner. Then she started been disrespectful and dishing out orders. So, I cancelled my attendance for the day and the dinner. I agreed to show up for the pressie opening and breakfast. All worked out well. I set up the techie gear for the kids. Had a cooked breakfast prepared for me and when the kids drifted to their gifts I bounced. Went back to my place had a sleep. Then had dinner with at my Mum’s and hung out with my brothers and sister. Great day. Asserting and holding boundaries seems to be my theme for a more successful year in 2024. But I will admit it was a hard one to do because my heart went out to my daughters because I knew they wanted to be with me for the whole day Xmas day. But Man, it feels so much better to walk through those hard moments and represent yourself well, first to yourself and then to the world. ———————————— So it’s been a split between family time and some hard partying. I had been only dating half heartedly recently. But over the holidays I got back in the game. I was at a bar with a friend and we were drinking hard and having a blast. Eyegaming different sets of girls and opening them and then returning to our own vibe. Long story short, and to return to the title “A Different Kind of Christmas Roast”. My friend, a girl (30yo) that we picked up at the bar and me, go back to mine and we hit a spit roast. I never thought I’d been into that or would even be game - but I was. It was wild. Next day, I do the aftercare thing, paractemol, emergency contraception (just in case) fed her food etc. Set up the text record to establish that it was all fun and we’d had a good time. One thing leads to another and she ends up at my place for a couple days deep in a sex fest. Just me and her for this leg of festivities. The girl is 16 years younger than me. She’s texting a lot more than I am used to. She’ll be a local FWB. Which will be great. Here are some of the sex things I need some advice on: **EDIT: OWS comment below is hilarious. Just for context - my questions below are related to me learning about younger sluts. As she’s 10 years younger than the youngest I have been with since back in the game.** 1). She wants to go sexuallly way more than me. I’d just be taking a break and she wants more, insatiable. I had this with other older chicks too - but because she’s younger, I see it as more of a challenge. Also, I enjoy the youthfulness and lack of baggage. But man I can’t keep that pace. 2). I knew, physically she was having a great time and I never had experienced a girl get as wet as this. Also when, I’d finish and lay back, she’d always curl up in the King Pose with me. But… She says she finds it difficult to fully climax. She says it’s always this way for her. I did all my moves, she would be groaning in pleasure, massive juice up at the end - like crazy levels and legs trembling. However, I feel if she had fully hit the O she would have left me alone for a bit. 3). When the fest finished up after 2 days I clearly needed a day just lolling around the house, I was wrecked. I need to reduce my recovery times. 4). I don’t want to nuke the attraction she has for me however I really think I need to keep sourcing plates. What are some pointers for keeping her spinning but keeping my game developing? I went to another party and I was hard gaming this girl - very petite - blunt fringe and with a dominatrix vibe. I kept pushing it when I’d isolated her from her boyfriend. Got slapped in the face. Usually, I wouldn’t be into that but I was. I think if they are petite enough I like it. So, I need to start sourcing some of this type of girl. 5). These young ones text a lot. And she’s not gonna see me for a week or so because my week with my kids starts now, and then I have travel for work in the coming weeks etc, etc. 6). What are the rules for letting them stay over. I already let her stay over twice, once because of the spit roast and we were all buzzed and 2nd time because it was a booty call and I put out a charcuterie board and some wine. She drove to mine for the booty call and one glass of wine is over the limit where we live. ——————————————————— This is the first time i have taken a bunch of time off work for holidays. I still have many days to carry over in 2024. And I am going to take every day due to me this year. It has was difficult to let go of work because I am heavily relied upon and taken for granted. Even more so, because I had worked much longer hours to divert my attention during the difficult parts of separation (18 months). Specifically, when we were living together and I knew the end was nigh. That been said I have stayed out of the work channels and they have my work phone if the need me. I need to ensure I’m not taken for granted and play my cards to improve my position, pay and prospects. To ensure I maximize my options whatever course I take with the company or elsewhere. I have created a significant amount of leverage and as Vinkatesh Rao would say “Table Stakes”. Question: I am nervous to use these stakes for my own benefit, however if I don’t play them I think I will regret it. Basically, it’s an unfamiliarity of playing the game with power and playing it somewhat overtly. Any advice would be appreciated? Specifically about how to calibrate the use of power with the founders and funders without blowing my load. I have real leverage built into the contracts and I would prefer to use it indirectly because I could be revealed as an operator - which is what I am. However, I’d prefer to stay covert. It’s like I have to switch from topping from the bottom to topping from the top and I know it’ll hit them in the ego.

So Woke da Wookie

McChickenshit