What Caused, and Ended, the PC Gaming Renaissance? (Die Shrink Telegrams)
Added 2023-11-01 21:28:20 +0000 UTCThis is one of those episodes that was heavily influenced by discussions on the MLID discord - namely the constant pricing discussions involving Nvidia SUPER, CPU Price/Performance, and the death of truly entry gaming cards - we think it's fair to say the "PC Gaming Renaissance" is over!
Now, that doesn't mean we think this new era is "bad" by historical standards, but it is VERY different from 10 years ago for sure! In this "new era" we have GPUs with the performance of Super Computers, people complaining if their "Gaming" PC can't get 12 Cores for under $400, and Thin Laptops and pocket-sized desktops that genuinely can give you a pleasant gaming experience in nearly every game out if you just turn down some settings. None of these things were remotely available 10 years ago, even relatively speaking...but to be fair we did have $80 Gaming GPUs, $70-$150 midrange gaming CPUs, and far less nickel and diming.
Times have indeed changed, but so...what ended that "renaissance" era? And for that matter, what confluence of factors caused it? Well, that is what we are going to talk in the next Die Shrink! This episode isn't just about what's changed (although we'll touch on that), it's also about why it changed!
You have a little under 6 hours to submit below! Be concise, use good grammar, and be respectful to be considered!
Interesting links for context:
https://www.cnet.com/culture/are-we-at-the-beginning-of-a-pc-gaming-renaissance/
http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/118/1186000p1.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-hd-6670/
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-titan-gk110-review,3438.html
https://www.techspot.com/review/464-modern-warfare-3-performance/page7.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/2jwnoa/question_from_a_console_gamer_thinking_about/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1735jxe/is_pc_gaming_becoming_unaffordable_relative_to/
Comments
Yeah I agree. Gaming is in a better place than 10-12 years ago. I had been using AMD for most of the 2000's into 2012. But I had two systems in a row with Bulldozer or Piledriver, or related chips in 2011 and 2012. Both were pretty expensive and both sucked! Ran hot, slow, not good. I sold the latter system and got an Intel Core i7 3rd gen system and it was so fast compared to those AMD ones. But with Zen 4 and the AM5 platform, I am seriously considering getting back into AMD.
M.T.
2023-11-02 22:53:35 +0000 UTCPossibly a controversial take, but I don't think PC gaming renaissance was a hardware phenomenon. It was a software phenomenon. It happened because of Steam. Prior to Steam, independent PC game developers were often blocked from selling their games at all by AAA publishers and console platform owners who equated PC with piracy, and who wanted more control over their customers. Steam gave them a market to sell their games, and Valve opening their storefront up to any game, including competitors' games, helped it thrive. As for why it ended: time. A renaissance, by definition, can only last so long. Explosive exxponential growth can only happen early in the life cycle; as the ecosystem matures, things have to level off. And that's where we are: level and stable. The AAAs are struggling, as their unsustainable business models come home to roost, but independents are still putting out terrific games, and Steam is still selling them. The latest hardware is pretty good, too; someone wanting to dip a toe into the world of Steam, and the Epic Game Store, and GOG, and Humble Bundle, and itch.io, can get started for just $350 US ($499 CAD)., by buying a Steam Deck. And yes, that's Valve again, keeping PC gaming affordable, after kicking off the PC gaming renaissance in the first place. There's a reason why their customers are so loyal.
Vaughn Samuels
2023-11-02 22:48:53 +0000 UTCIs it possible for consoles to ever support a broad & deep mod ecosystem the way PC does? And could that ever be effectively monetized by publishers? Outside of more niche genres like deep simulation/strategy games, it seems like PC's main advantages are (1) backwards compatibility, (2) the diverse ecosystem of indie games, and (3) mod support. #s 1 and 2 have become less and less of an issue over time with digital distribution, but #3 seems to be a PC exclusive for now.
Independent George
2023-11-02 14:54:40 +0000 UTCThe state of tech actually seems a lot better than 10 years ago. The 780ti was a hot and loud card and really didn't offer that much more performance over last gen, and we had already passed the legendary Sandy Bridge generation, with AMD nowhere in comparison. I would argue we are in the Baroque era, teetering on the over-stylized Roccoco period. Some of the new features are being pushed for the sake of pushing them, but there are plenty of examples where they clearly weren't ready or polished
FloridaMan
2023-11-02 03:00:09 +0000 UTCIt feels like we have what we had 10 years ago, great indie games regularly come out and tons of good services and good games appear every year. But the cost of electronics and particularly GPUs are now exceeding the budget of many. Feels like the great race to "look better than ever" every year is finally reaching a point where the costs of game development and the GPUs to run these games is just too much, both for the studios and the gamers.
KingHarkinian
2023-11-02 00:36:47 +0000 UTCRelated: 10 years ago means the "PC Gaming renaissance" pretty much coincided with peak Youtube content for gaming, with the Minecraft bubble tailing off and other games as well as hardware-related content coming to the forefront. How much of the renaissance do you think was driven by the huge influx of gaming-related user-created content rather than actual technological change?
Lo_Res_Gamer
2023-11-01 22:37:28 +0000 UTCWe may have had sub-$100 GPUs in 2013, but were they actually remotely good compared to the used market?
qhfreddy
2023-11-01 22:25:16 +0000 UTCHow much of the renaissance do you think came down to PC gaming becoming a more mainstream thing? How much do you think the rapid pace of development and low prices caused PC gaming to grow? Do you think that the lack of further growth opportunities in the future, because "everybody already games", will stop there from being another renaissance?
qhfreddy
2023-11-01 22:24:24 +0000 UTCThe gaming Renaissance was caused by the outstanding GTX 460 GPU! It stayed around until gamers rejected our attempts to enable prices to stay low. When the so called “GPP” was made up to smear our good name. In reality, our CPIP (Consumer Price Improvement Program) was scuttled due to pushback, causing prices of GPUs to rise drastically. Also AMD and Intel being greedy with CPU pricing killed that side of it.
Jen-Hsun Huang
2023-11-01 22:20:19 +0000 UTCI think the PC Gaming Renaissance was in large part due to how big the power gap was between console and PC CPUs, as well as really good price/performance on GPUs at the time. To match a PS5/XBox series, now you have to get something stronger than Zen 2 for the CPU and a 6700 or better, AND the GPU price/perf has stagnated in awful ways even before counting the crypto/AI bubbles. I feel like if the consoles were on Intel E-core level and RX 5700 XT perf, the jump in requirements might've been less steep and upgrading would've been easier, at least for GPUs.
Cleansweep
2023-11-01 22:08:09 +0000 UTCI think the worst thing about leaving this era compared to now is exactly what you wrote in the description here. Publishers weren't nickel and diming nearly as hard and there wasn't 2 season passes, battle passes you must buy, but you also still miss out on other things so more microtransactions! Games are definitely running better (for the most part) now but the amount of money you have to drop into titles is staggering now.
CompressedAIBlocks
2023-11-01 22:07:02 +0000 UTCTimes 10 years ago were very different from 20 years ago. The fastest consumer CPU was the Pentium II with 450Mhz and it did cost nearly 1500$ (inflation adjusted), while my Nvidia Riva TNT was about 250$ (adjusted). Unreal Tournament which was released one year later only ran well with reduced resolution and quality. That meant scaling down from 768p :) A high end system that cost 2500$ would last you for about 2-3 years before it was basically unusable for new AAA titles.
Aluveitie
2023-11-01 22:05:12 +0000 UTCI'd just like to comment that while the Renaissance may be over, PC gaming is in so much better of a place than it was in 2010. I was also a victim of Fermi drivers but I've basically never had persistent problems with drivers recently, Windows and most games and hardware also just feels far more stable too. Nowadays, games on PC run smoother and faster than ever and we aren't missing out on nearly as many console exclusive or having to deal with nearly as many games where PC is an afterthought.
qhfreddy
2023-11-01 22:00:09 +0000 UTCIf we ever enter a renaissance again, will it cause/be caused by a stagnation in hardware or process nodes such as quad cores and 28nm?
CompressedAIBlocks
2023-11-01 21:59:41 +0000 UTCWhile I think there are certainly hardware factors (there wasn't an AI bubble to prop up prices after the first mining boom and we haven't had the node stagnation from that period) I think the biggest issue has been with game studios. The big reason why the FTC gets involved in M&A activity is that these mergers and acquisitions reduce consumer choice in the market and I think we're seeing that directly in the quality and quantity of games released. There is less coming out that is exciting, more titles are going to consoles exclusively (As a sports gamer, there is now no longer an MLB game available on PC and the last NHL game was NHL 2009) and frequently those that come out aren't in the best state at launch (cyberpunk and starfield are recent examples).
B. Fish
2023-11-01 21:58:48 +0000 UTCDo you feel people were less obsessed with frame times and frame rates? I suspect only enthusiasts cared about these statistics back then versus it seems like everyone is crazy about them now even if they do not know how to read them correct.
CompressedAIBlocks
2023-11-01 21:56:48 +0000 UTCHey Tom and Dan, as a person who didn't get into PC gaming until the last couple years I don't have a perspective on what the PC gaming renaissance was like. What are some characteristics of modern PC part that would have seemed unusual back then?
Xavbeat03
2023-11-01 21:37:23 +0000 UTCNot a question but more of an observation. You can definitely tell a lot of PC gamers are from this era of components due to the constant complaining when system requirements increase. Upgrading more often has been the norm more often than not, and it's hard to explain that to people that never lived that.
CompressedAIBlocks
2023-11-01 21:37:18 +0000 UTCIs the hope that Intel could be the guard for out of control prices by introducing entry level GPUs with better pricing or are we past that era now onto something new now?
Intel FanBoy
2023-11-01 21:34:23 +0000 UTC
