Angel Talk || Season 4 Q&A (new link!! sorry the last one cut off 2 min at the end of the original vid)

While there are definitely Christian undertones (and for good reason, let's be real), I'd argue that there isn't much twisting going on. My mother was a devout Catholic, but she refused to raise me in any religion at all, because she said religion was meaningless if you didn't choose it for yourself. Indoctrination as a child was an evil akin to brainwashing in her opinion, and I agree. It only counts as faith if you're entirely your own creature when you take the leap. But she got a LOT of attitude from friends and family and the rest of the congregation for this, because they were more concerned with me being Catholic than me having free will. I know a lot of people think of Jasmine as the anti-Christ, but that view saves us from having to acknowledge that much of scripture endorses the viewpoint Jasmine espouses--that happiness means yielding your ability to choose to a higher power and we should ignore the cost. And this isn't just Christianity. There are many devout people in the world of many different faiths who would love to force others to live according to their beliefs. Jasmine is what religion becomes when it removes choice and becomes about blind obedience (and often that means who can look the most in love with Jesus (or whoever) rather than living up to the best parts of his teachings). Unfortunately, we see that a lot in evangelical Christianity today. But being good and being obedient are two very different things. My mother and I disagreed about a lot of things, but I'll always be grateful to her that she waited until my 18th birthday to ask if I would like to accompany her to church. S4 of Angel will always be one of my favorites for the way it dives into this issue so wholeheartedly.

Mitch M

Yes, this season is completely different on a rewatch! More so than any in the Buffyverse, I think, which is saying something.

Christian theology is demonstrable evil. It supports genocide, slavery, incest and rape. Just to name a few. Conner was a cafeteria Christian , ignore the bad because of the end result of good.

Allan Cornett

If she thinks that the first visited Connor to stop world peace. Lol

Jaren

What did you ask?

ahmad

I am so bad with endings... I saw "Wrap up" and was "Aahhhhhh not ready!" I am so glad you enjoyed this season as much as you did, I honestly remember it being such a clusterfuck upon first watch that I couldn't focus on the good things it has to offer (of which there are plenty). It really shines upon rewatch, despite (or maybe because..) of the icky stuff that you can fast-forward - it makes a whole lot more sense and drives some plots home now that you know what's to come (like Lorne's monologue in "Spine the Bottle"..) I do have to agree that Cordy's presence is sorely missed, her energy is so essential to the show's identity in my opinion that everything feels off to me when she's not there (and that includes the episodes in which she is supposedly there, but not really..) However I disagree about Skip. I hated that "reveal" I think that the writers wrote themselves into a corner, wanting Cordy to be missing from the summer, and the whole gang to be split up (Wes all alone, Angel at the bottom of the Ocean and no one the wiser about it..) and if Cordy would have been there she would have told everyone "Yeah, I went to meet him, he didn't show up, something's off" - and Connor wouldn't have been able to get away with his deception. So they had to make up an excuse and they didn't do so well. The actor that plays Skip did a wonderful job at being nonchalant and creepy, and that part was awesome, but it took away from the whole joke of "yeah I'm just a dude working this job, oh and I happen to be a scary giant demon, so what, don't judge me.." So to me that whole thing felt contrived and ill thought of.

Ashtara Levin

Hmm... I do think there's a sense in which the apocalypse of this season is an atheist's version of the Christian capital-A Apocalypse. The perspective of an atheist reading Revelations would likely be something like "wait, so the idea is that God is going to allow/cause all of these terrible things to happen in order to fulfill some plan of his, then show up at the end to set it all right?" Which is essentially what Jasmine does in this season. It's not a one-to-one allegory (and I don't think it's written with the intent of being a blanket condemnation of the religion), but the parallels are there, and they're very interesting.

ghostofdurruti

@Ron Fehr, not necessarily. Jasmine is basically a spin on the anti-christ, so in this context there's no implication that Christianity is bad. She is the "saviour" that showed up after the rain of fire, destruction and death etc. who turned out to be a false messiah.

ahmad

It was the twisting of Christian theology, as you put it, that had me skipping past the episodes with Jasmine. It seemed to imply, in my view, that Christianity is a bad thing, and that's simply not true.

Ron Fehr

Glad you weren’t spoiled about stuff this season and went into it with an open mind and you ended up forming your own opinions about it and liking it. I also enjoy this season for many reasons but mostly for its themes and how it twists a lot of Christian theology and biblical concepts and makes us question what actually is right and wrong, if the ends justify the means etc. Also lots of great acting performances in this season :-)

Ariel17

Overall I think this season is actually better on a re-watch than the 1st watch because you know that it's not really Cordy and that she's evil the whole time and as a viewer you are far less confused at what is going on. Most of this season the viewers dont know what's actually going on, you it just feels off but you dont know why. Overall the Cordy/Conner stuff still feels really icky but if you can put that to the side, there are some really amazing storylines and moments. Having Angelous and faith back was amazing and it was great to see Willow as well. I really like the Wes/Lilah relationship and think the Wes/Fred/Gunn stuff is pretty interesting too.

Ray D

Connor never had anything good to say about the gang's use of magic, but in the end it was magic that gave him a better life. Some pretty powerful magic too, not as wide-spread as Jonathon's "Superstar" thing where everybody's reality was altered to make him a paragon to the world but still a lot of people's realities would have to be changed for Connor to have a whole new past.

Hef

It seems doubtful to me that Cordy was actually a higher being, if she had been you'd think she would have been met by another higher being and given a handbook or a tour or something! Instead she floated out there alone until Jasmine could take over her body.

Hef

I originally watched it when it first came out and had no idea it was such a divisive season. Personally I enjoyed it. This season has more of a serialized format which was unusual for TV back then. The reveal about how Jasmine manipulated the events/fate didn't take away from what Cordelia was for me. Because of who she is, she kept her vision at her own expense and became part demon. Finally, she ascended to become a higher being and sacrifice her own happiness for the greater good (even if it was a lie). If this was Cordelia from the earlier seasons of Buffy/Angel, she would not have gone down the path she did in S3. Anyway, season 5 is hands down the best Angel season for me. :)

Pat S

My question wasn’t answered. 😔😓

Jaren

yes! We got season 4 out of the way. Time for the best season to arrive! 😎 I guess you'll find out why this season was such a mess, and when you do, you'll probably hate it 🤐

Armando Antunez

It’s ok. Pimps f*ck up top. 😂💀

Jaren

What happened?

Jaren

The abrupt ending was also brought up on discord. It was definitely not meant to end that way, and alley will re-export the video at a later point. Just think of it as a cliffhanger for now. :)

Patrick Armbruster

That was abrupt 👁️👄👁️

Jessie