Buffy the Vampire Slayer || 6x07 || Discussion

So callled “theatre kids” who don’t know who Hinton Battle is.

Rio de Tanana

I love how Alley got to watch this unspoiled! I was the same back when I got to this point, just watching the episodes in order with no clue about what was going to happen. This episode hits so different

I played Xander & Sweet on a BuffyBoards, fan-made album of this ep in about 2008.

John Alexander

I assume fuffy_rights is refering to SoFieReacts (patreon and youtube handle). You can check out her youtube edited reactions to Buffy to see if she's a good fit for you. I'm not a patron of hers, and her youtube seems to only be up to S5 E10, so I can't speak to what her reaction and commentary may have been in 6x3, so my mind remains unchanged.

Donald Mellen

Who is Sofie? And Should I give her a try?

Bellibel

Re: Dawn's kleptomania. Well she was made from Buffy "I totally meant to pay for that lip gloss" Summers.

Loves Bitca

my very favourite episode and the first i ever watched - i remember walking downstairs in about 2012 as my dad and stepmum logged onto lovefilm (remember that?) and found buffy on there. having both been married to different people during its original airing (i was born 2 days after buffy died the second time lol) they decided to rewatch it but took a detour to the musical episode first. i sat down with my lunch and the rest is history (possibly i was too young to watch it but i also would genuinely be a different person if i hadn't - and don't worry, watching with parents meant stuff was fast-forwarded over and i didn't see a fair amount of the show until i watched it on my own a few years later. but it did mean i watched all the willow/xander nonsense knowing full well xander would end up engaged and that willow was a lesbian. and it meant i had zero tolerance for angel because i had a big fat 11 year old crush on spike). LENGTHY digression complete but this episode holds SUCH resonance for me because my randomly walking through the living room while this played literally changed my life. and the music slaps

I agree that Giles' departure is handled kinda weakly. Given that in real life Tony was pulling back in order to spend more time with his real-life daughters, it would've made sense to give Giles some positive motivation pulling him toward home. Maybe just bringing back Olivia for a couple of scenes would've been enough.

i always thought like that too, but honestly Sofie's reaction and commentary about 6x03 changed my mind quite a lot

angelcakes

I never thought the Scoobies "just wanted Buffy alive". She jumped into a dimensional rift to seal it, and the rift was bringing hell dimension creatures through it. They assumed that Buffy's soul had been sucked into a hell dimension (most likely Glory's) and was in eternal torment. THAT is why they wanted to bring her back.

Donald Mellen

The fact that they didn't even try to move on and have evidently been planning the resurrection spell all summer is exactly what makes it make sense. They're not acting out of a desperate need for the slayer. They're acting emotionally out of wanting their friend alive. Throw in a time jump where they genuinely move on, and that explanation goes away. If you have someone other than Willow bring Buffy back, you can of course just completely change all the stories and character arcs and have a completely different season altogether. But if the idea is to use a time jump to improve the existing story concepts, then we need to keep the story of Willow's excessive use of magic and crossing of lines, and that definitely works better if it's tied in with Buffy's resurrection and Willow's guilt about pulling her out of heaven. But then we're back to: if the Scoobies have all moved on, there needs to be some specific reason to suddenly decide to bring Buffy back. Whereas in the actual season 6, they're acting out of grief having not moved on, so no additional explanation is needed.

Jeff Cornell

I mean, their reason for bringing Buffy back *now* was pretty flimsy; and it just happened to coincide with the plot convenience where, if they hadn't had brought her back just when they did, everyone dies. There are any number of plausible reasons *someone* would want to bring Buffy back, and not even necessarily just because they need the Slayer, but because it's Buffy. At least if they had waited, then it might be a little more plausible that someone would feel an urgency to make it happen. That the Scoobies couldn't make it, what? A quarter of a year? It seriously calls into question just how hard they tried. Like, they must have started planning things and looking for that urn right after they buried her. I've kind of played in the sandbox of this idea a little, and like, Willow could have turn out to be the new mayor of Sunnydale, or running to become the mayor; and maybe she's not actually the one who brings Buffy back in this scenario and is just as surprised as everyone else. The Scoobies don't necessarily even need to still be together and potentially fell apart without her. Generally, an actor is said to be able to play plus or minus at least 5 years their actual age; maybe 10 depending on well they take care of themselves or how blessed they are genetically. That's arguably more for adults, but I'd say Michelle was at that stage where, she could reasonably have played a 19-ish college freshman without too much suspension of disbelief. Probably better than 19 year old SMG playing 16, or 27 year old Charisma playing 16 in season 1; never mind 30 year old Nicky Brendon playing 21 in season 5. It's not even like Alyson, Nicky or Emma looked all that old, but they definitely didn't look their character ages; and the writers tended to take for granted just how young they're all still supposed to be by this point in the series. On the Angel side of things, had they decided to do this from the start, they actually had a pretty good out in that Angel and company went to Pylea right around the same time as Buffy's death. They've already established that other dimensions have different rules for the amount of time that passes. Yeah, the one Buffy went to in season 3, time went by faster than than in our dimension, but there's no rule that says it couldn't be the other way around. Fred was said to have been missing for 5 years; when they got to Pylea, they could have had Fred make an offhand comment about only being their a couple of months or weeks that isn't immediately acknowledge. Then when they get back the hotel looks like no one's been in years; OR it's been renovated and turned back into a hotel and the person behind the desk overhears says a note had been left for the previous owners; and that could be how Angel learns about Buffy. Willow sitting there waiting for him is a great moment, but considering they were in another dimension and who knows if or when they'd ever get back, it was already a bit of a convenience that Willow happened to be there when they did. So, you know, pick a reason that's at least as plausible. Darla's a good point, that I hadn't thought about. There are, I'm sure, any number of ways of to still make that work somehow (the simplest and, for me the most amusing, being when she finally sees Angel she's like, "I've been lugging this thing around for five f*cking years!"). I'm sure there are ways it could have worked, but can't get to deep into thought on that one for want of spoilers.

Stargazer1682

The problem with a time jump that big is that, although most of the characters would be brought closer to their actors' ages, Dawn would then be significantly older than Michelle Trachtenberg. A 2 year time jump is probably about the most you could get away with, /maybe/ 3, but the rest of your idea should still work with that. But if you go the route of having them successfully move on from Buffy's death, then you need some separate justification for them suddenly deciding to bring her back, and that seems tricky. Just a general need for a Slayer doesn't seem like enough justification if they've emotionally accepted Buffy's death, since Faith is on a redemptive path and freeing her from prison would seem like a more reasonable plan A if a Slayer was desperately needed. But really, I think the biggest problems with a time jump are A.) at the time they would want the show to be set in the present, and a time jump breaks that, and B.) a time jump breaks any possibility of crossovers with Angel unless you have a time jump there as well, but there's no reason within Angel's narrative to do that. Just the opposite; the Darla pregnancy storyline is a strong reason to avoid a time jump.

Jeff Cornell

I have a very love hate relationship with a lot of these early season 6 episodes, because the performances are so well done, but there are also a lot of what I find to be questionable writing or character motivation. And much of it comes down to like, the writers wanting or needing to steering the story a certain way, but then doing it rather clumsily. And the two that often come to mind are the ones that come to ahead in this episode - Giles feelings like Buffy's too reliant on him, and Tara's concerns about Willow's use of magic. With Willow and Tara, it's kind of a minor gripe; and mostly stems from Tara taking issue with Willow conjuring the decorations - like, who gives a shit? It's not like she had to sacrifice a virgin to make it happen. And yeah, it probably wasn't really about the decorations, but I feel like Willow's problem is she lacks the objectivity or thoughtfulness to decide if, just because she can do a spell, if she should do the spell. And if you're going to have a character like Tara make that kind of argument with her, then they need to be able to tell the difference between the right time and the wrong time to use magic; and taking issue with something as harmless as making decorations in the previous episode completely undermines that argument if Tara doesn't know the difference either. With Giles, I know a lot of it was driven by Tony Head wanting to go back to the UK, but I feel like they could have set this up better over the last few episodes. Giles is making this big decision, that he's "standing in the way" of Buffy standing on her own, and that to me just always seems like bullshit. Just last season, in "Tough Love," Buffy tries to pass the buck "Well, then perk up your ears. I may be a grownup, but you're her family. Her only real family now. She needs you to do this." Now Giles is not only letter this slide, but he's reaching the conclusion that Buffy can't grow or be independent if he stays? What?? Like, countless parents are faced with knowing when to help their child and when to push them to stand on their own without leaving town. And "Wish I Could Stay" is a fantastic song, I really do love it, ASH does a great job and I love the reprise with Amber. I could listen to those two do an entire concert. I like the song so much that I pulled up a karaoke cut of the song on YouTube a moment ago to sing it - and consequently in doing so, some of the lyrics stood out more to me than they have over the years; like, "you just lie there, when you should be standing tall." WTF are you singing, Giles? The woman just came back from the dead and went back on fucking patrol within the next day. There were like two instances over the last couple of episodes, between her abruptly leaving to see Angel, just as Giles wanted to go over finances with her; and then her running upstairs after saying she expects Giles to talk to Dawn about Halloween. Yes, there was "Life Serial" where she bounced around from job to job and couldn't find a good fit, but it was also established that someone was messing with her in the course of that. They haven't really established a pattern of her "just lying there" Clearly she's not in the best head space, even before they know what really happened to her, but "staying" and knowing the difference between offer help and when to say "no" is exactly what she needs most - as evidence by the end of the fucking episode, when Giles is like, "no, Buffy must do this on her own, and I'm not going to tell you why. We're just going to sit here and wait, and hope they both come back alive." Like, WTF Giles? This is where I've recently come to the conclusion that season 6 could have benefited from a time jump; just like, 5 years later. Willow, Xander and Anya would be closer in age to their actors (as opposed to them all still being very early 20s). Buffy could feel even more out of place, with her friends having moved on without her; and they Scoobies could have at least *tried* to go more than a summer vacation before invoking the dark arts to bring her back. But more importantly, it would have presented the most logical way for Giles not to be a main character, if he had moved on, established a new life back in England; maybe even has a young daughter now, that he named after Buffy and *she* is the reason he can't stay. 🤷‍♂️

Stargazer1682

Over 1700 Patreon's and over 300 comments, "Once More, With Feeling" is definitely a money maker. Congrats on the success.

Eric Bushee

just getting around to watch this today. I don't have the energy to look through the comments to see what was mentioned. "The Body" also has a very high rating, 9.7 or .8. the trivia on imdb is *insane* someone already mentioned David Fury, Marti Noxon, and watching til the very end. if no one else said already said it, there's a few lines to connect to S1 episode Nightmares. when Willow mentions a kid sleeping and they're stuck inside a broadway nightmare, that was in reference to Billy, the "Lucky 19" t-ball kid. when Anya says what do they need such good eyesight anyway, about bunnies, that was referencing the spiders that Wendell found in the book in Nightmares. Willow asks something about what do they (spiders) need all those legs for anyway. I was *giddy* when this reaction came out

kelly mc

My crew back in the day probably watched this episode 50 times in the following Month

David King