Episode #721: Dune (1984, W❤️M)
Added 2024-02-02 11:00:06 +0000 UTC“Oh, man, Patrick Stewart’s saying ‘love play’…” - Andrew
On this month’s We ❤️ Movies episode, we’re chatting about the under-seen, under-appreciated David Lynch-directed sci-fi adventure, Dune! What are the odds Lynch and the production were in deep to the mafia on this one? Were movie theaters really handing out tiny glossaries for the uninitiated? Where is that darn four-hour cut, Universal? And how fantastic is Patrick Stewart’s skullet? PLUS: A series of David Lynch casting call blunders!
Dune stars Kyle MacLachlan, Virginia Madsen, Richard Jordan, Brad Dourif, Francesca Annis, Jose Ferrer, Linda Hunt, Freddie Jones, Everett McGill, Kenneth McMillan, Jack Nance, Jürgen Prochnow, Sting, Dean Stockwell, Max von Sydow, Alicia Witt, Sean Young, and Patrick Stewart as Gurney Halleck; directed by David Lynch.
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Original cover art by Felipe Sobreiro.
Comments
Funny story about Stockwell meeting Lynch that’s surprisingly similar to the Patrick Stewart one — Stockwell heard that Lynch was working on something nearby (may have even been early production on this?) and went to meet him about potentially being cast. The whole time, Lynch was similarly standoffish; turns out, he had misremembered the death of another former child actor years ago (Brandon DeWilde) as being Stockwell, so when Stockwell came in and introduced himself Lynch thought it was a ghost
Gordon
2024-03-17 02:35:36 +0000 UTCIn Jodorowsky's Dune, Jodorowsky claims he convinced Orson Welles to agree to play Baron Harkonnen by offering to hire the chef of his favorite restaurant to cook for him every day. Alejandro Jodorowsky says a lot of things, but this would explain how Welles knew about Dune and the big floating fat man when David Lynch called him.
Shaenon Garrity + Jeff Wells
2024-02-28 20:54:03 +0000 UTCI will also confirm this. They handed out a glossary at the theater when I saw it back in the day. It was a single page, printed on both sides, if I recall correctly.
Kemper
2024-02-11 16:18:18 +0000 UTCKudos to Andrew dropping some book knowledge. I started reading Dune again thanks to him.
Chris Tobias
2024-02-06 19:29:58 +0000 UTCOne of the good things about being my age (55) is I saw this, and Bladerunner, and the first two Max Max films, and a HOST of absolutely not for kiddies stuff AT THE CINEMA WITH MY DAD before I was old enough to drive
Justin Shaw
2024-02-05 09:34:12 +0000 UTCIt's funny how Villeneuve's movie actually helped me to better understand what's going on in this movie. I love Lynch but this is always my least favorite of his movies and I could never quite make heads or tails of the plot in the couple times I saw it pre-Villeneuve's movie. I have grown to at least appreciate it a bit more with a better understanding of the context of the story.
Busiris
2024-02-05 07:49:12 +0000 UTCI had been mildly ready for DUNC part II but listening to this episode the past weekend has gotten me all the way back up to insanely excited to see it. should revisit this version too, saw it back in middle school when my mom saw me reading the book and decided to show me one of her favorite movies
TJ Guiney
2024-02-05 03:38:32 +0000 UTCI don't recall the Sinister stuff in the Dark Phoenix one, but believe there was a little in Logan and the New Mutants place was being run my him
Darryl Bowen
2024-02-04 22:54:04 +0000 UTCHere we go: https://twitter.com/ecto_fun/status/1651710690191654913?t=QhW3UEdLy61hoWwJm95arA&s=19
Tim O'
2024-02-04 17:37:45 +0000 UTCRe: Brad Dourif in Blue Velvet: he's one of Dennis Hopper's goons. I think he has a few lines but you definitely don't get him in madness mode. While Dean Stockwell is singing, Dourif is in the background dancing with a dead snake that he found near the set. I saw a clip of an interview with Lynch where he approvingly remembered Dourif finding the snake and bringing it into the scene.
Tim O'
2024-02-04 17:26:34 +0000 UTCGreat episode as always. Just to chime in as a book nerd, it's mentioned several times in the book that the Fremen stink like shit. Which is a kind of weird detail sometimes. "Stilgar's face was weather beaten and carried the long miles of the desert. He walked with a quiet dignity that spoke of years of battle. Oh and he stank like the seat of a motorcycle at burning man."
Lono's Oboe
2024-02-04 13:09:12 +0000 UTCI think it's OK to blame Lynch for that, that part of the narrative just didn't really fit into Lynch's interpretation of the work. Paul knows he's not a messiah almost from the get-go. He sees the path to the future golden age of mankind shortly after he takes the water of life and he sees the terrible, tyrannical things he has to do to humanity to bring them to that future. That's pretty well laid-out in the first book and it's in even in Villaneuve's movie where Paul is having the vision of the Jihad in the tent with Jessica and he's asking someone to help him look away from it (this is cribbed from later in the book for Villaneuve's movie to make Paul more interesting in Part 1). Dune Messiah expands on Paul's internal conflict, where's his wrestling with alternatives and the knowledge that there is no other way to the golden age other than through enslavement and he ultimately turns away from that responsibility. Lynch didn't seem to have interest in exploring the fact that Herbert's Dune is a warning against messiah-ism and worship of leaders who promise us things. Lynch wanted it to be a surrealist psychonaut hero's tale because that's what he's into, and that's fine. The fact that he didn't want to explore this theme and many of the core ideas of the work are why I personally don't care for it but that's just my own baggage with it.
Smaug
2024-02-04 02:08:37 +0000 UTCGreat episode. I watched this movie as a kid and never understood why it was so hated. It’s a lot of fun. I will say that the fact that the Denny movie seems to understand the true lesson of Dune more is nice. But you can’t blame Lynch and team for not getting the fact that Paul is not, in fact, a Messiah. Frank Herbert literally had to write sequel books to hammer home that point, up to turning his son into a literal monster show it.
Dan sulin
2024-02-03 17:02:47 +0000 UTCHad to watch Happy Gilmore last night
Zu _
2024-02-03 15:58:35 +0000 UTCI kept my mouth shut because I didn’t want to keep stopping us dead with “I’m the book guy” knowledge, but I think we’re saying for the purposes of this particular adaptation, considering the character doesn’t do as much as she does in the book, they could’ve let it go. But yeah, obviously Alia is a big character lol. - Andrew
We Hate Movies
2024-02-03 15:40:38 +0000 UTCIts weird because im listing to the we love episode for the 2021 Dune and Chris says he loves the ending lol.
Matthew Lloyd
2024-02-03 12:45:45 +0000 UTCI agree with Chris that the new film’s ending is probably its biggest flaw. I haven’t read the books so I don’t know if there was some other scene that might have made it more climactic. I know Peter Jackson moved a lot of stuff around from the LOTR books to make sure each one had a strong climax (even if, personally, I would have loved the second film ending with Frodo’s “death” and capture)
Craig
2024-02-03 11:05:40 +0000 UTCHere is the 3 hour fan edit from 2015 that takes footage from the original Theatrical Cut, the Extended TV Cut, and deleted scenes: https://archive.org/details/DuneTheCompleteSagaVimeo
CharlesGrodin'sToupee
2024-02-03 02:50:04 +0000 UTCThe Alia discussion and how unnecessary she is in the movie is fantastic. It's like going in not knowing that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's grandfather/schizophrenic second consciousness that will eventually possess him and become an even greater monster
Lance Flexington
2024-02-03 02:05:19 +0000 UTCAnother great episode. The Lynch impressions were amazing as always, but "Getty Prime" might be one of my favorite jokes you guys have done. The discussion about CGI vs. practical was interesting as someone who mostly comes from a video game background. There's been an obsession with pushing realism for high budget releases for at least a decade now, and it's led to a similar loss in the handcrafted charm that you saw in older games. I think that kind of realistic CGI works best when it's used as a tool to show what would otherwise be impossible to conventionally create, but it's all too often been employed purely as a simulacrum of reality that makes the flatness shine through.
John Edwards
2024-02-03 00:54:07 +0000 UTCRIP Carl Weathers RIP Carl Weathers RIP Carl Weathers 😱😔
Paul
2024-02-02 23:47:34 +0000 UTCI'm not into this movie but I came to it as a teen after reading Dune for the first time and had expectations that were absolutely crushed. BUT! I say "give the Harkonnen a blade" at least once a week and I liked listening to you guys talk about it. My issue with this movie has never been that it's not fun scifi, it has always been that Lynch didn't seem to have interest in discussing the themes that are kinda the lifeblood of the book. Themes like environmentalism/ecology, how humans remove themselves from the natural world, examining how organized religion and government can be tools of exploitation, and the dangers of following political leaders and messiahs who promise stability and certainty in an uncertain world. I guess that makes it his own vision, but I feel like those themes were important in the 80s, are super important today, and Lynch was more interested in the surrealist package all of that is wrapped in in the book. It has always felt like a shallow interpretation to me. Villaneuve has a much better grasp on the literary themes, at least to my eyes. Lynch's is fun silly scifi with people yelling at rocks for some reason, but it'll always be a bad version of Dune to me
Smaug
2024-02-02 22:55:43 +0000 UTCYessss I’ve been waiting for this one for so long 🫶🏻
Meggy
2024-02-02 22:18:42 +0000 UTCNot sure why the morbid thought hit me but reluctantly looked up Lynch’s age while watching. He’s 78, not sure why I thought he was a little younger. Is that Wisteria project totally dead?
RJ Cunningham
2024-02-02 21:33:26 +0000 UTCit is an absolute DELIGHT to hear you guys talk about Lynch. thank you.
imipolexGforce
2024-02-02 20:40:11 +0000 UTCCredit where it's due - the Marvel comics adaptation they did at the time has some pretty damn nice artwork.
Todd B
2024-02-02 20:04:11 +0000 UTCYep it's true. They did hand out a little glossary at the theater. I've lost mine.
Doug Dee
2024-02-02 20:01:24 +0000 UTCI'm excited to see that 40th anniversary fathom event this month
Paddy O'Rourke
2024-02-02 19:54:47 +0000 UTCApart from seeing Mr. Stewart carrying a pug into battle I loved the soundtrack of this movie. Particularly the main theme you hear in the trailer. I would've never guessed it was preformed by TOTO
Turbo
2024-02-02 18:46:48 +0000 UTCI had the two part film audio on a record deal they did for kids back in the day for stuff like Star Wars and other big 80s films. Always makes me chuckle to think of the marketing blitz for this film. Clearly they thought they had another Star Wars. Love the movie and this element is a big part of it.
Ed Harris
2024-02-02 18:00:55 +0000 UTCThis is awesome I was going to request this for March before I knew you guys were covering it! Great!
Michael Yates
2024-02-02 17:48:24 +0000 UTCIn (slight) defense of DeLaurentiis - this whole thing kind of turned into a 'lemons to lemonade' for Lynch. The fact Dune was such a notorious mess meant Dino gave him prettymuch carte blanche to do what he wanted on Blue Velvet so long as he did it cheap. So Lynch came back from this in full blazing glory, partly thanks to Dino's really weird style. Also, if you want further weird stories of how that guy was to work up, check out Don Coscarelli's memoir 'True Indie' - he has a whole chapter about how he was supposed to adapt Cycle of the Werewolf for him and how batshit THAT got. EDIT - and regarding the question of the gloarry - I can't speak to the theatrical, but the steelbook DEE-VEE-DEE (had both the Lynch and Smithee cuts) did include a glossary insert which might have been a recreation of that.
Todd B
2024-02-02 16:53:18 +0000 UTCI'm a little surprised there wasn't a brief aside about Jodorowsky's Dune (unless i zoned out for a minute.) It wasn't necessary per se, but it would have provided a little context for the Welles bit. *Great* episode though.
MarkNM
2024-02-02 16:06:46 +0000 UTCThere's a couple of different extended cuts - between the run time and import, guessing that's the Spice Diver edit (started as a fan cut made off an earlier extended cut that Lynch didn't want made and actively campaigned to get his named Smitheed on.) Have heard that cut's good, but not seen it myself. The Smithee cut is...interesting.
Todd B
2024-02-02 15:58:43 +0000 UTCMy husband has an import DEEVEEDEE version of this film. It has both the theatrical and an extended cut of the film. The extended cut is almost 3 hours long. For example, the beginning of the extended cut goes into detail about the different groups in the film.
Jen L Greene
2024-02-02 15:53:07 +0000 UTCNeed a cameo of Wallace Shawn yelling this.
Jason
2024-02-02 14:12:40 +0000 UTCNever trust an Italian with a casting call!!
James C Harris
2024-02-02 13:16:16 +0000 UTC"This is the wrong Dean Stockwell!" Instant classic episode
Tim O'
2024-02-02 13:01:34 +0000 UTCI used to read Dune every year (before I had children) thanks to my dad, who had all the books in the 80's. When we saw the movie, he shook his head at the little expository pamphlets they'd handed out and said, "God-damn (a phrase he used masterfully throughout my life,) it was just good guys vs. bad guys. They didnt need these. I guess they think people are dumb." This is one of the big ones for me. Can't wait to hear the WHM take on it.
MarkNM
2024-02-02 12:55:42 +0000 UTCFinally, a David Lynch movie! 🥰
Tim O'
2024-02-02 11:59:32 +0000 UTC
