Further Thoughts on The Dollmaker

What if he was made of candy? Just a huge mass of sticky sweet illusion, only to become a rotting cavity on the brain..

That ruin at the bottom is so cute.

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truth_decay

Love this idea much more! I imagine it would yet another interesting aspect of going there with the mechanical arms rushing around the shop. The idea with the spider lair is great, he needs to be hidden in a way.

ayla crescentbear

Yeah I prefer your final response, his face has to be hidden to make sense. His voice and the rest of his presents is enough that those who have played the previous games (or even just Madness Returns) will know who he is.

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Bumby at this point is already trying to manipulate Alice. Can there be subtle hints dropped through dialogue that suggest this, while still having the young Alice depend on him for her upgrades, not realising what he's doing? In the same way that the real-world Alice ends up getting a job with Bumby, the Wonderland Alice can trust him enough to buy weapon upgrades - but he's constantly trying to manipulate and control. Perhaps every upgrade grants him a bit more power over Alice's mind... maybe, the more she upgrades her weapons, the larger his body becomes.

Rosuav

Yes, keeping the Dollmaker in the shadows with just a few hints (i.e., the glasses and the voice) that he’s Bumby is the best way to go. Alice could start by trusting him, but then growing more suspicious as the game progresses as to why he’s hiding his face from her (to those who’ve played AMR, this could mean Bumby is afraid Alice might recognise him from the night he burned down her home ?) and as she grows stronger, she could even challenge him to come out and show himself - and when he says he can’t do this, she’d realise the Dollmaker was only helping her for his own reasons, and was trying to cast some evil influence of his own over her, just as Bumby would try to do in AMR...?

I like this direction with Bumby! Totally agree with what you and Omri say. Not a fan of the centaur idea, though. Seems too gimmicky and classic fairytale esque, in a way that doesn't really fit. Maybe Omri could make that work, but yeah.

Hey :) I think a Victorian age type of shop and his perfect owner could be a good image to start, Alice could buy before in a warm shop that seems normal and after discover that something is wrong. I like the effect of the glasses in the dark and I think you guys could play with his hands coming from that dark. So in practice from the detail going to the entire shape. And I think that starting from a normal place and discovering step by step particulars, like dark liquid, hands with black nails and after: a black hole from wich the hands of the monster come from. This could be intriguing and add spicy at the moment of the story. :) But choose the best for everyone x) Hope to have been of help. Byee!

I think this option better suits the story overall. But I'm fine with both either way.

I agree with Laura Bryce, he starts off as human, kind, inviting etc...Then every time (or after a special scene/boss battle) he changes, becomes less human and turning into this shadowy- mechanical-spider until the finale of the game were he shows is true nature. This shows that Alice at first sees him as a savior. Then thru her adventures of her mind starts to realise that something is not right. Maybe the shop changes with him into this spider nest you talked about? Given that Alice is the butterfly, the spider is the perfect enemy.

What if he wore a cloak an all you see is the eyes part n if he is given any lines then a bit deeper than his actual voice?. Like she knows he is human an maybe she feels she knows him but can't place this shadowy hidden figure

What if he starts off as human and the more Alice upgrades etc he becomes less human until eventually he is the mechanical monster you spoke of? Just to show Alice is getting stronger

Shadowy mechanical idea sounds good 👌🏻. My main thing here would be to consider the newbies especially. Yes, most of us are already fans that know the storyline. However, the newbies need that solid, proper plot twist in their future if they choose the play the games in a chronological order. -edit: I noticed a lot of “harumphrumph” in the Dark Crystal community over the new series and them not viewing how new people might watch chronologically and get a different emotional reaction from the plot twists in that order. Very cool to consider, so I’d say whatever keeps Bumby as The Dollmaker as much of a mystery is the best option

Lauren Tina

I really like þese ideas! Ecpecially þe shadowy mechanical idea!

True. I think the neat and tidy store might look nice. With the shop keeper (Bumby) in the back room, so all the mechanical arms do the work.

I agree with you that the spider is a bit much. What I thought was Shadow People. Y'know, in your peripheral? A whisper of someone. Alice was vaguely aware of Bumby as a child, only seeing the light reflecting in his glasses. An unknown silhouette, something in her subconscious.

I also just had a thought that I don’t know if 13 year old Alice would be subconsciously aware of what he’s doing to children yet, as Bumby is presumably still a younger undergraduate of her father’s during this timeline who’s possibly still studying to become a doctor. I think he’d certainly have a presence, but I’m not sure where the doll visuals would come into play this early. Unless, they represent his treatment towards her sister or there is a new plot that we will find out in Asylum, where she saw something along those lines. I really love this image of his glasses peaking through the darkness though. I think it’s my favorite concept art I’ve seen so far for Asylum. It’s simple yet bold and I recognized the glasses as his right away. We will just have to wait and see! 😊

Interesting idea, American! Yes, exactly what I was thinking. Like the man behind the curtain. The only thing I can think of with mechanical arms and a centaur at the moment is if instead of mechanical arms, it was represented as living (dying) tree branches. Like, he’s one with the whole shop and it could be viewed as almost fairy and fey-like. Earthy. Seemingly one of the only somewhat green and not wilted areas left in her mind. Which would, if I were her, draw her to interact with it. Like Dollmaker is ‘planting’ things in the minds of children and ‘blossoming’ them into ‘crops?’ with dolls growing in muddled bunches, kind of like mold on a tree. With the shop themed sort of like a dying forest. However, I’ve always really loved the steampunk theme with Alice and feel that a mechanized system of some sort seems right. I’m sure whatever you guys come up with will be amazing!

Ah, right. I remember this comment came up before. Did I dismiss it for some reason? I feel like I might have. Anyway, I just wrote this to Omri... "One of the Insane Children once again made reference to the centaur concept... from Alice's quote of there not being any in Oxford. And suggested that Bumby might be better represented as a centaur.  I think that's a good idea. Can you think of a way to combine the mechanical arms concept with the centaur idea? Perhaps it's a mechanical centaur Alice interacts with? That way we have the idea that, like in The Wizard of Oz, there's a (little) man behind the scenes pulling the levers and making the whole shop work...  Thoughts?"

American McGee

I think he should take the form of a centaur, not a spider. Like, the shadow of a centaur, hidden away. Since that’s what Alice says she thinks she saw in AMR. Would be good foreshadowing. Plus, a centaur can be seen as inviting, wheras the shadow of a spider would not.

I'd like to see how this mechanical-spider-puppet look turns out , but if he stays vaguely human I'd suggest taking the drawers behind him in the 3rd piece of art and putting them into his chest to replicate the AMR look. As other ideas: add a storm lantern (like the one that caused the fire) as a light source in the shop and if viewed at the right angle he would cast a centaur shaped shadow from that source. If he’s unfailingly polite to Alice, questions her memories, and offers idle advice like “stand up straight!”, “don’t forget to say ‘thank you’”, etc, it would play into the idea that in the real world he’s trying to see if Alice remembers what he did and is grooming his charges. And for maximum creepiness, maybe every fifth or so time he hands over an upgrade he takes an extra second to withdraw his hands. A sense of subtle creepiness that permeates everything he does would be key to charging his scenes with unease and horror.

Yessss, I like this. It could also be interpreted as Alice being a butterfly that flirts with the danger of a spider’s web. Maybe an alternative route you can go, if you don’t want Bumby truly there, is - hopefully this makes sense - what if the dollmaker isn’t quite Bumby, but a conglomeration of Alice’s anger and hatred towards him for what he did to her family, or at least something like that? Perhaps there can be enough touches there for us to see the direction it’s going, but enough that he stands as his own character. I imagine even after pushing him into the train, Alice would still be reeling from the fact someone she trusted and put her mind in the hands of was, in fact, the root of all her problems.

Comment: I think having everything run using marionette strings mixed with a mechanical aspect would be interesting. I think the hardest thing is making his "parlor" inviting, because we know he is a spider to Alice's fly.

Morgan LeFay Dethen