Poll: How to handle "multiverse" races (poll 2/2)

A web-app could do the same as these PDFs do, make it possible to add your own custom content through an import functionality. If that content so happens to be all the official WotC content, that is not for me to judge. PS. Sorry for the late response, it has been a hectic two weeks.

MorePurpleMoreBetter

First of all, I pledged in July and am happy to do so since this is all new content for me. As for MotM. I don't know the best solution. We obviously need that content. I think it should be the default for new character creation, but previously created characters need to be able to kept with stats and abilities intact. I like having the PDF available locally. I don't see a web version being able to have the extra content and without that, well, there are plenty of those out there.

Venti Mocha

Disabling the older content in favor of the new book, rather than listing both versions with their source in parentheses would be a terrible idea. If you bother to look at the D&D Beyond Races page, you would see that the new book changes races from SEVEN original source books. Turning all of that content off by default would also affect the races, class, spells, feats, backgrounds, and items that were also from that source book (some of which have not been reprinted)

I mean the TCoE version of the Booming Blade spell is objectively worse because it destroys the synergy with Spell Sniper, so that's a poor example to use to convince people to only go with newer material.

FreakyAlienGenotype

Need to add them separate as some campaigns have resource restrictions.

Venger

At the very least ALL official content for the current version of 5e should be on the sheets as variants or optional rules, regardless of whether or not WoTC decides it should be overwritten or changed, in my opinion. In part, because what official content someone owns versus someone else can vary, but also, people spend a lot of time, money, and effort that they invest in source materials, characters and campaigns, and so forth. Some campaigns span over the course of years. This would be entirely different if we were talking about a video game in which the latest patch changes things and the old version was no longer applicable. People own and use physical copies of Volos, and may not want to, or can't afford to, buy the newest. Nor is every player with one of the changed races going to want to change the fundamentals of their character, nor is every DM willing to allow that change. It's a bit cringey that WoTC comes out and says anything should, ultimately, overrule anything. To suggest that that's the way they intend it, fine, but beyond that is just gross to me because people pay for these souce books, so unless they're "updating" it free of charge, they can quite frankly go suck an egg. :D So I think these variant options being available is good and important, and it should be that way for most official content released. Thank you for doing that MPMB. Though, what is even considered official at this point, now that WoTC owns Beyond? :/

Soul Sojourner

Errata is significantly different than publishing a new product that replaces past rules (to me anyway). If someone doesn't own MMotM, they have no way to look up the race you are saying they should be playing. There will also be groups that don't own MMotM - if MPMB only supports MMotM versions, the sheet is useless for them even though they are playing using WotC sources.

Stephen Wilcoxon

Dana - No, not if WotC changes the content. I would say the early printed version of Healing Spirit in XGtE is not "official" because THEY issued errata saying the new version is the official version. And, I belive, changed the wording in newer printings. Likewise, The TCoE is currently the official version of Booming Blade. The version in SCAG is no longer official.

Shad Gray

Michael, players who play 3rd-party races, classes, spells, etc already have to do this. I was not intending my statement to be a criticism on the player or a lack of empathy. I'm currently playing in a 5e Gestalt campaign of the DM's design. As such, I can't even generate my sheet with MPBP. (Instead Im generating 2 sheets at each level and manually copy-paste'ing information to a single sheet as the sheet isnt designed for that and its not a feature that I would request be made for my rare and narrow experience). I understand the desire to have the sheet be able to do "anything" when my situation is outside the norm. But I also recognize that while my situation isnt unique, and that others would probably love Gestalt sheets too, it is far more rare of an issue than 99% of players will encounter. Likewise, The simplicity of always have the currant rules, races, classes, and spells in the sheet is of far more value to the broader community than the handful of players who are in current campaigns with outdated races, who can simply choose NOT to update to the newest version of the sheet and continue to use the currant one until their campaign's conclusion. in everything Ive seen in my experience, MPBP sheets are an amazing way for new and inexperienced players to quickly make and run a character and are of the most benefit to players who are likely to miss a choice of skill proficiency from their background, or add proficiency to their damage (or NOT to their to-hit). Its a simple way to track their class progression without constantly opening their books at the table to see how their ability works, and the best aspect of it is that it's up to date with the rules and gives correct info with little opportunity for error. Having multiple versions of the same creatures and classes causes confusion and mistakes with the very players I'm introducing to the game and who most benefit from the sheets. To quote Spock, "The needs of the many..."

Shad Gray

Some people base their character's class and personality on their race. So if they created it with one version of the race and it gets changed, then everything they built their character around has been changed and is no longer the character they created. And using an older version of something that WotC put out is not the same as using Homebrew. It is still official WotC material.

Dana Folsom

Figure it out and deal with on their own??? I think that is what MPMB is trying to avoid. No room for naivety or short-sided viewpoints... we all appreciate what MPMB does and nothing is going to get screwed up.

Michael

I think moving to a pop up dialog box with the options to use the Volo or Metaverse (or homebrew for that matter) would be best. The options available could be driven by the data sources loaded with the default selected being the most current. This seems like the best solution to future proof the race section for all users. Thank you for asking our opinions!

I say, use the newest versions by default. If someone has, or wants to use older versions, They can figure it out and deal with that on their own, or use a script. MPBP sheets should remain current and use the newest and most official rules. I have always appreciated that these sheets were not filled with homebrew and third-party-published material. I have always been able to use these sheets for new players and not have to worry if everything is correct. Ive used it for school D&D clubs, Ive used it for brand new players at my table. As long as I didnt input the UA material at the beginning, the player always had access to the most currant versions of classes and spells without any confusion. But you are going to REALLY screw that up if you go giving multiple options for a race or class. You might as well be adding homebrew.

Shad Gray

Shad Gray, you can already control exactly which races are included and excluded in the Source Material dialog. You don't have to exclude the whole source. This is how it currently works. I'm asking if I should change that. There are currently already duplicates of things where the sheet selects the latest version (mostly unearthed arcana). I'm just offering a way to have all duplicates listen and you can choose which rules to use. If you think those things are the same, then by all means vote that this is a useless feature and you want me to focus on something else.

MorePurpleMoreBetter

I know my group would be displeased if they made a character built on a version that later gets retconned during the campaign. It's better to let the version be selectable to not step on ties with updates. Similar was done with Marvel's Ultimate Powers Book being designed to supersede the Player's Book when duplicate entries are involved. Instead, I have them note which version they are using (PB or UPB) in parenthesis as either definition may work better with how they envision their character functioning.

Anthony Harvey

I think that adding the MotM versions as separately selectable race options is a good way to go. Selecting and de-selecting source materials may be a bit more fiddly.

Christopher

Apologies if this wasn't clear, but what you want is actually an option, namely "Finish the pop-up dialog before adding these races". This new dialog will have all races as options, regardless of which one is newer. They will just be listed with their sources to avoid confusion (e.g. "Hobgoblin [VGtM]" and "Hobgoblin [MotM]"). Thus, if you select to have the dialog finished before adding the races, that is exactly what will happen. I'll focus on this new dialog before releasing a version with the new race options.

MorePurpleMoreBetter

I'm torn a bit in answering this poll; I don't think the options are mutually exclusive. I want both versions of the races available as separate options; but, I would like the new dialog to be the priority.

Lawrence R. Hoy

I like the idea of giving us a - and ultimately our players - the option of using what they want for races.

Ultimately, the rules at the table are decided by the DM regardless of what WotC decides. As such, having the new versions separate from the old versions allows us to have proper character sheets if the DM decides he wants the Volo versions for his campaign. Like maybe he has a aasimar npc with player class levels and has Volos Guide but not Multiverse. If possible, some sort of notification that the Multiverse versions are the version WotC recommends would be appreciated though. Thanks for all your work