BBV10s Debrief: Send us your thoughts on the 2002 US Grand Prix!
Added 2025-02-11 08:05:01 +0000 UTCIt's almost time for another Bring Back V10s Debrief, exclusively here on Patreon! Drop your thoughts, comments and questions on anything from episode five of Season 11 covering the 2002 United States GP, and Glenn Freeman will soon sit down for what is bound to be another epic stint to work through them all!
Comments
Too late to get this in for the debrief podcast, but this was my first F1 race. I sat along the start/finish line where the grandstands face each other. Foolishly I did not wear ear protection and by the end of the race my jaw was trembling like I was cold. I assume my nerves were so overwhelmed that my muscles were firing on their own. I also remember the Honda engines being the loudest/shrillest. The farce didn’t ruin it for me and I went back each year until it was gone…including the 2005 farce.
David Baker
2025-02-18 17:38:34 +0000 UTCSorry for the longish comment, I‘ll try to keep it as short as possible. First off: Thank you so much for the great work. Been on board since the very first episode and especially a race like this shows how great the show is: to make a dull and somewhat boring race into a brilliant episode. :) About the episode: 2002 was, in my mind, F1‘s rendition of Shakespeare‘s Much Ado About Nothing, peaking in Austria but followed by Indianapolis making huge waves without the actual need to being funny and sad at the same time. Bill would’ve loved it. The race itself was a classic case of everyone doing what they did best, especially in 2002: - Schumacher being Schumacher doing some random nonsense stuff, trying to talk himself out of it while failing to do so, leading to chaos and frenzy - Ferrari being Ferrari trying to cover and clean up the mess that Michael created and of course resulting in more chaos - The Williams drivers being the Williams drivers rather crashing into each other costing the team points than admitting a loss or mistake My Highlight however was (as oftentimes the case when it comes to controversies) Ron Dennis: - Ron Dennis being Ron Dennis and criticising Ferrari for the staged Finale in public must be the highlight and pinnacle of F1 hypocrisy. I mean we are talking about THE main man responsible for the Williams-McLaren-Deal resulting in one of the most clumsily and publicly staged finales of a race (Jerez 97) leading to how Matt rightly slammed it as Mika‘s (for a man of his talent) pathetic, wrong and sad first win.
Marvin Wehren
2025-02-12 10:35:55 +0000 UTCIs there any way in which the race could have been officially declared a tie? For example level to within a thousandth of a second? Would there be tiebreakers called into play etc?
Nicholas Langdon
2025-02-12 10:09:35 +0000 UTCI completely agree with you. The reason why it bothers me is that they started the year with a modified 2001 car and won. None of the challengers of that year were anywhere close to them. Don't get me wrong but I love the brand and Michael Schumacher like Glenn loves JV bit stunts like this while they are in the best interests of the team, are definitely not in the best interests of the sport which has actually paid Ferrari extra money over the years just so that they would stay with F1.
Xerxes Balsara
2025-02-12 01:52:32 +0000 UTCEarlier in the season (Austria) they weren't counting on it being the cakewalk it ended up being. Schumacher had a 21 point lead going into the round, and left with a 27 point lead instead of a 23 point lead. Ferrari would have had the memory of 1999 (Schumacher missing an extended period), 1998 (always just a little bit behind), 1997 (giving up a 14 point mid season lead) still in their heads and not wanting to leave anything on the table. They wouldn't have expected McLaren to be as dog**** as they were for most of the season and were probably expecting the other teams to claw them back. By Indy, Schumacher had secured the WDC (5 races back) and the WCC (3 races back) so they could be a little more cavalier with formation finishes.
Matthew Pope
2025-02-12 01:15:48 +0000 UTCI may be straying too far here, but I can’t help but reflect on the effect this race, along with the 2005 USGP, AND the IRL/CART split had on mainstream motorsport in the United States — specifically in aiding the meteoric rise of NASCAR. It really is remarkable to see how this contributed to the pseudo-death of single seater racing interest here in the US.
Dalton Reck
2025-02-11 23:54:26 +0000 UTCOut of all the drivers on the grid that day, excluding ex Indy drivers, who do you think would have the best chance at winning the Indy 500? Side note: Loving these debrief episodes. I especially like the fact I forget what question I asked by the time the episode comes out.
Liam Scully
2025-02-11 21:22:15 +0000 UTCIn hindsight it was a shame this was the only glimpse Terrestrial viewers got of "Bernie TV". When it disappeared at the end of 2002, I thought it was odd they didn't carry over the graphics to the World Feed in '03 - retaining the "1994" graphics (for want of a better description) - before introducing entirely new graphics for 2004
Stuart Coulter
2025-02-11 19:37:18 +0000 UTCThis! ☝🏻
Stuart Coulter
2025-02-11 19:32:54 +0000 UTCLoved the bit about the broadcast. I was young at the time so didn't really care too much but looking back, some of the TV broadcasts were down right awful. When they were being directed by the local broadcasters and directors, what races do you think were going to be broadcast well and which do you think were not (I do remember Italy and Japan being bad ones at missing key moments)
MrIceColdAndy 23
2025-02-11 18:34:25 +0000 UTCLooking back, whilst having the F1 Digital feed for one race only was an exciting novelty at the time for us lowly terrestrial viewers, it is remarkable that FOM didn't actually have a decent camera angle on the finish line - the long shot from turn 1 looking up the straight merely added to the confusion at the end of the race. James Allen actually called MSC as the winner, and it was only when Brundle looked at the timing screen that they realised Rubens had "won". Even the Ralf-JPM tangle wasn't covered too well - it was only the alternate shot from turn 2 that revealed that Ralf had dropped it pretty much all by himself, and I don't think there were any onboards released. It shows how far we've come, from what felt like a huge advance at the time. Thought there were some really fascinating storylines in this episode - on that September day at Indy, where Ferrari were arguably at the absolute zenith of their dominance, I wonder if anyone could have predicted that the two teams that would ultimately surpass them as F1's benchmark teams (for a sustained period) would be BAR and Jaguar, given the turmoil both were in at the time. Admittedly it took changes of ownership for both teams, but still...
Jon Curry
2025-02-11 18:21:44 +0000 UTCI think I remember that tobacco companies could only get a full name of one of their brands once in the US. As Philip Morris had Marlboro in CART at that time, they couldn't have Marlboro and B&H on an F1 car. Same for BAT and the Lucky Strike logo that drive around in Nascar. Mevius (Mild Seven) and Reemtsma (West) had no sponsorship activities in the US, so they could be advertised in F1.
Philipp Eitzinger
2025-02-11 17:55:31 +0000 UTCOf course, 2002 and 2005 alway linger offer the Indy GP Circuit, but I never got warm with it. They still race there in IndyCar, and although the layout was revised - the twisty double-180-chicane is gone as well as the loop just before the back straight - to this day, the tracks just does not spark any joy to me and I find most IndyCar races there pretty tedious. I get why F1 was keen to use Indy to get some US attention, but even without the shenanigans of 02 and 05 in particular, it was just never gonna work properly as an F1 track. Austin has been such an upgrade to host the USGP.
Philipp Eitzinger
2025-02-11 17:36:00 +0000 UTCI must admit as a 10 year who supported Kimi and McLaren I was just fuming at another Ferrari dominant display in 2002. What does stick out to me though was that side cockpit view for Schumacher when crossing the line. Was it only him who had this view? I can’t recall any other driver having it. Maybe F1 were trialling more camera angles for the fans during this time.
Liam Meade
2025-02-11 16:02:01 +0000 UTCIndy always only "worked" for me as soon as they entered the banking and down the straight. They looked and sounded so great there. As a 11 year old ferrari and schumacher Fan i wasn't too offended with the finish. I felt a sense of "schumi justice" and remember immediately thinking "ah he repaied him for austria". But i also have to add, i saw any criticism towards ferrari or schumi at the time as completely wrong and injust as i was young and biased. Think nowadays i'd say "well that was unnecessary ". And thanks for the great episode. I enjoy to relive races i already saw live as well as discovering races i didn't watch.
Ben
2025-02-11 15:37:27 +0000 UTCI was angry then (and still now tbh) about them wanting to make a dead heat. I feel it was quite insulting to F1 history to now have it as the record as the smallest winning margin Another great episode btw
David Saiya
2025-02-11 14:51:18 +0000 UTCAnother great episode. Off the back of it I listened to your Austria 2002 episode. It really struck me how much the podcast has come on since then. BBV10s became my favourite podcast the moment I discovered it in 2020 and it has been amazing listening to each new series getting better and better. Glenn, I was particularly struck by how you've grown into the role of host - you have become so accomplished and natural, and retrospectively you and the BBV10s "family" have become a part of my happy memories of F1. Thanks for everything so far.
Mathew McCarthy
2025-02-11 14:25:13 +0000 UTCSadly the final section of the infield with that very tight double hairpin let it down, but I loved the use of the banked turn and the first sector is challenging. I've had the honor of racing it (in a shifter kart) and it's awesome.
Cardiff Giant
2025-02-11 13:25:27 +0000 UTCI imagine it would have then defaulted to who had the faster lap or best grid position?
Cardiff Giant
2025-02-11 13:23:48 +0000 UTCThere is a video of it on Youtube. It claims it was more so he could understand the more technical (aka computer/software) side of then modern F1 cars to be able to give better advice to the drivers. He did 10 laps at Valencia and despite spinning twice at the same corner on consecutive laps, his top speed and entry speed into 2 corners was identical to then driver Pedro De La Rosa.
Cardiff Giant
2025-02-11 13:19:24 +0000 UTCIn early 2000s the mechanics always covered the front and rear wings of the cars in the pits so other teams could not copy their setup. When and why did this trend stop? Did it even make any sense back then?
Peter Selecký
2025-02-11 10:56:36 +0000 UTCYour chat about Jaguar and Lauda reminded me (I think) that Lauda tested the Jag in 02 and had a couple of spins while doing it and this was rather embarrassing because he had done the test in a ‘I need to show my drivers how it’s done’ kind of vain?
Chris Parrott
2025-02-11 10:54:36 +0000 UTCI am a Ferrari and Schumacher fan, and always was a fan of Indianapolis as the home of the US GP, but I can't help but feel it is in part moments like this that led to its downfall. This, along with naturally the tyre fiasco in '05, did nothing to help the American fans get to grips with F1 and accept it at their Speedway, as it made F1 look more like a scripted show than a race, and perhaps in hindsight Bernie/FOM should've been a bit more distancing to what Michael did to try and protect the deemed integrity of the sport in the eyes of the American fans. Am I being too harsh on either Michael or your average 2000s American F1 fan here? What are your thoughts.
Max Claydon
2025-02-11 10:51:18 +0000 UTCI went in 2004 and it was great being in the stands. The noise was physical. It didn't translate on TV.
Simon Emms
2025-02-11 09:47:54 +0000 UTCA moment that was also notable from the weekend was the demonstration laps McLaren gave to Indy Racing League racer Sarah Fisher in the spare 2002-spec car. At the time, it was quoted on the season review as being the first time a woman had driven a F1 car for 10 years (me thinks Giovanna Amati in the Brabham in '92). It's incredible to think how much of a big deal this was 23 years ago, compared to today when we have more female drivers on the ladder to F1 than ever before.
Scott Woodwiss
2025-02-11 09:40:47 +0000 UTCOne humorous moment I will always remember from this race was the retirement of Pedro de la Rosa. The Cosworth engine on his Jaguar failed and stopped just before pit entrance, and when getting out of the car an over-eager marshal directed him over the barrier. What he failed to mention was, there was a body of water on the other side, and when de la Rosa jumped over, he slipped and fell into it. It's captured brilliantly on the official 2002 season review, where de la Rosa mentions it to reporters saying "The marshals must have gotten over-excited. They told me to jump out of the circuit, I jumped and there was a river, so I went in. They should have told me!"
Scott Woodwiss
2025-02-11 09:33:01 +0000 UTCListening to this episode, I'm surprised by the backlash this got. Admittedly I was a naive 8 year old, but I remember it was well received by Martin Brundle and James Allen on ITV, far more so than Austria 2002 was. Was it the mixed messaging afterwards that changed how it was perceived?
Adam Barton
2025-02-11 09:21:16 +0000 UTCHow much of Ferrari's 2002 dominance was due to the Ferrari/MS spec Bridgestone tyres? How much did the relationship with Ferrari change from 1999 to 2002 and is that why McLaren moved to Michelin for 2002?
Graeme Marsden
2025-02-11 09:08:00 +0000 UTCI feel like this summed up Michael Schumacher. When he was stressed or in this case bored, he would do things that weren't thought through. I think he was trying to repay Rubens but he hadn't thought through the usual backlash that would come his way, then he digs a hole when he gets accosted in the media center because he had thought he was doing a good thing. I don't think this would have happened to any other driver. Senna giving up Japan 91 to Berger and denying f1 the shot of the Champion crossing the line was the most ridiculous of the genre, what did Senna need to pay back for?? Though that means Jerez 97 survives purely on a technicality that it wasn't team mates on the last lap.... well maybe they were that day...🤣🤣🤣 ITV did a segment on how to stop Schumacher at the next race in Japan featuring Max Moseley's wonderful idea of drivers rotating around all the cars. After 3 titles in a row. Changed days indeed!
CSF
2025-02-11 09:07:42 +0000 UTCWhy couldn't Ferrari display Marlboro branding but other tobacco-sponsored teams could (such as McLaren running West)?
Henry Langdon
2025-02-11 09:04:54 +0000 UTCEpisode question: It's been over 22 years and with the performance advantage of the F2002 and Michael's consistency that year, I still haven't understood why Ferrari needed team orders that year. Don't get me wrong but with Michael and Ferrari winning race after race, I actually had one of the best years in my life. Unfortunately the Austria and the US weekends were super sour points for me. Austria even more so given the post race theatrics and Indy just felt like they flipped us off. By the way, I will keep saying this: "Keep up the unbiased work and true reporting of the sport by the ENTIRE TEAM of The Race". Only motorsport podcast subscription worth having these days.
Xerxes Balsara
2025-02-11 09:00:32 +0000 UTCWhat would have happened if they had gone exactly level over the line? Presumably Schumacher gets the win as he was ahead before that and so in this case Barrichello would not have overtaken him. This would be my conclusion using the same logic as qualifying for Jerez 97 when JV got to keep pole from MSC and HHF when they set the same lap time after he did.. Just wondering if you know what might have happened in this scenario?
Aidan Dulohery
2025-02-11 08:50:12 +0000 UTCI’m curious if you think Michael’s view of Formula One and finishes such as this was a bit old-fashioned? It feels like something that would have been considered fine in the 50s but not 50 years later. Do you think his sports car days, where this is more common, (team finish at le mans for example) influenced his view on this?
Oliver
2025-02-11 08:40:04 +0000 UTCYou've mentioned Bernie TV a few times and that you watched the alternative feed but I was wondering what commentary they used, was it the main TV commentary and did they have separate commentary for the alternative feed?
Ed R Gaming
2025-02-11 08:23:15 +0000 UTCHow would the Schumacher/Barrichello incidents in Indy and Austria be viewed today/in recent years? We’ve had team orders for Hamilton/Bottas and Verstappen/Perez (some with pay back, some without) and while there was some slight criticism, it was pretty minor overall. Was it due to the circumstances of the time or are the media/fans not as bothered by this sort of thing these days?
Jake
2025-02-11 08:21:23 +0000 UTCBeing a big Schumacher fan at the time, I hated this race almost as much as Austria 2002, because I wanted to see him win but without al this hoo-ha! As sharp an operator as he seemed to be most of the time, this one definitely wasn't his brighest idea.
Jurre Hindriks
2025-02-11 08:19:50 +0000 UTCWhile the time available in each episode is understandably limited, the focus naturally tends to be on the front of the field. Especially in races or seasons where the on-track action at the front isn’t particularly spectacular (last lap excluded in this case😉), a brief focus on the midfield or the battle for "best of the rest" can be just as engaging. The fight for fifth place was intense, with both drivers arguably making the most of their machinery that day.
Michael Ahmadi
2025-02-11 08:17:02 +0000 UTCWhat was it about the the U.S. GP in the 2000's that F1 just didn't get. There was this cringe worthy ending and the unfortunate 2005 race where a decision on what to do couldn't be made at all well. F1 seemed to go out of it's way to embarrass itself in front of an audience that wasn't yet fully on board with F1
Simon Pope
2025-02-11 08:14:49 +0000 UTCFor whatever reason, I found it very hard to enjoy watching F1 cars race at Indianapolis. It just felt a little uninspiring - one of the worse tracks raced on in the v10 era. Am I being a tad harsh? Convince me otherwise 😊
Michael Holden
2025-02-11 08:12:10 +0000 UTC
