BBV10s Debrief: Send us your thoughts on Adelaide 1986!
Added 2025-02-02 11:20:00 +0000 UTCThank you for the incredible response to our first 1980s turbos episode recently!
Let's go back to 1986 again - leave your comments, thoughts and questions about that year's epic title decider below this post for the next Bring Back V10s Debrief episode with Glenn Freeman!
Comments
Did the whole Piquet verbal no.1 agreement thing influence the future decisions of drivers as it pertains for written No.1 status in contracts or other *No.1 *benefits (like MSC always having the spare car in 00s)? Even Piquet himself made sure to have Lotus all around just him in 88-89.
Μάριος Γαντζούδης
2025-02-04 11:12:50 +0000 UTCI have always been fascinated by Williams' decision to pit Piquet and throwaway any chance of the WDC, given the general attitude to safety (especially cars left strewn in dangerous places) at the time I'm surprised they didn't gamble. Do we know whether any analysis was done on Piquet's old tyres to say whether they would have made it? Glenn if you had been in Frank/PAtrick's position would you have made the same decision? (hard I know given we are used to much more risk adverse world)
Andrew Dale
2025-02-03 17:51:38 +0000 UTCI remember Mansell saying on the vhs on his victories that had he crashed the race would have been stopped and he would have won the championship.
Ben Hawkes
2025-02-03 17:22:50 +0000 UTCI will repost what i said under the pod itself... 1986 was my first full season of watching F1 after starting to take an interest in 1985. Contrarian 8 year old me didn’t like Mansell mania so Prost was my preferred driver at the time. Anyway, I always have a debate with myself about how many times since 86 has the title been won by a driver in an inferior car? In 00, for example, the McLaren was possibly still faster but its fragility cost Hakkinen the title and reliability is a key component of any car. The only ones that I can think of are or were suggested by Ian Simpson were 08, 07 and 95, but even then they certainly weren't with a care deficiency to this extent. The older I get, the more impressive I feel this title win was!
John O'Hara
2025-02-03 16:46:36 +0000 UTCI watched the Mansell tyre blow out many many times on what was one of my favourite VHS’s of my youth - The Nigel Mansell Story - released in 1990 It included race highlights with Simon Taylor on commentary (it wasn’t a BBC made video), and fittingly dramatic music played over three key incidents in Mansell’s career: - The Adelaide tyre blow out - The crash at Suzuka ‘87 that damaged his spine (the video suggested he definitely would have been world champion had he been able to finish the season - obviously it wasn’t that straightforward) - The 1990 British GP retirement followed by our Nige throwing the strop of all strops and announcing his retirement from the sport It also featured him playing Greg Norman at Nigel’s personal golf course on the Isle of Man - he didn’t have too much to whinge about really did he?
Richard Snape
2025-02-03 16:03:05 +0000 UTCGreat points Patrick especially on Mansell's mindset had he won the title in 86. Certainly his persecution complex and feeling of ill treatment would have massively decreased and Honda perhaps would have thought twice before putting their "efforts" on Piquet in 87. I was a teenager watching this race live on TV and my deflation was as much as that tyre. Great suggestions for other turbo era races, I would also add British GP 86 with a lot of substories to it. If we go back to 82 then I would also add Detroit 82! @Glenn, John Watson will be available I am sure!!!
Bruno
2025-02-03 12:37:43 +0000 UTCIt's just how they operated - they were the epitome of the 'Engineering' in the original team name, and F1 Champions were no exception to the rule either.
Alexander Law
2025-02-03 11:52:24 +0000 UTCThis was the very first race I watched EVER. I didn't have any idea who Murray Walker or James Hunt was, or even the storylines of the year (Andy had context, I was much younger and had only a little). I have vague recollections of thinking that the guy that had a tyre blow in the race wasn't definitely going to win, and then the commentary added context and I DO remember thinking "there were more of these during the year?!" Living in Australia, having one race right in your timezone, and then two the subsequent year in 1987, really helped spark a lifelong interest in F1 and Motorsports. I only understood the whole story many years later when reading Autocourses and Autosport! I wonder how much more interest in F1 there would be now if more seasons had the championship decided in the final race. Would F1 have peaked years earlier than it has right now, maybe during the height of the manufacturer years in the mid 2000s if Ferrari hadn't won 2-3 years with such dominance? Thank you for this little moment back to where it all began.
Alexander Law
2025-02-03 11:39:18 +0000 UTCHow much of Williams' advantage across '86-'87 was solely down to the Honda engine - would they have been competitive without it?
Hugh
2025-02-03 10:15:12 +0000 UTCI felt very fortunate to be at this grand prix - the first one I ever attended, though I was too young to really appreciate what was going on. A comment, more than a question. I didn't realise Prost was apparently so low on fuel. Was there a post script to this? Did F1 teams need to provide a min fuel sample back then? If so, I'm guessing Prost did?
Michael Holden
2025-02-03 09:26:48 +0000 UTCFantastic episode, thanks! One of my favourites. This was long before my era (I was 2 at the time), so who do you think was genuinely the better driver - Mansell or Piquet? Watching the excellent Williams documentary from 2017 and the gist I got was Mansell was No. 2 and expected to be slower. Has McLaren 2007 vibes.
Alex Morris
2025-02-03 09:15:55 +0000 UTCGreat episode as always. Had no idea that Prost had a puncture until you mentioned it.
James Paine
2025-02-03 09:02:30 +0000 UTCAmazing to see how wide the gaps were in the field after just a few laps. What were the lap time gaps among the leaders and was this down to drivers conserving tyres and fuel?
Mark S
2025-02-03 08:30:02 +0000 UTCThis was another fantastic episode Glenn. I was too young to see this in ‘86, so this episode had me looking on YouTube for the whole race (including Australian TV commercials). And just like my 90s teenager-self, reading about past races, I watched, aching, with such a gap over cars behind, for Mansell to pit. Alas, history repeated itself…again.
Simon
2025-02-03 08:13:17 +0000 UTCFantastic episode, hopefully there's more of these in the future Similar to Patrick's question If Mansell does win the title, and Honda does stay with Williams how does that impact engines/drivers in the future? Does Mclaren get Renault engines in 89 instead of Williams? Does Senna end up in Williams instead in 88/89?
David Saiya
2025-02-03 08:12:31 +0000 UTCEdd and VdB are just so incredibly knowledgeable and passionate, aren't they? What an absolutely fantastic episode. (Glenn was great too!)
Daniel Hayes
2025-02-03 06:43:07 +0000 UTCCould there be an argument for this to be the greatest F1 title decider of all time? I understand you being a tad biased towards 1997
Liam Scully
2025-02-03 05:53:13 +0000 UTCI’ll give Nigel the benefit of the doubt as I have never had a tyre blow out at 300kph, but I have always felt that Mansell being Mansell, he put a bit of mayo on it.
Tim
2025-02-03 00:25:55 +0000 UTCQuestions: if Mansell had got the 86 title, do you think the psychological and status boost of becoming World Champion earlier would have meant the rest of his career had played out differently? Would he, feeling he had less to prove, have been a bit calmer in his approach to 1987 (yes, I know this *is* Mansell), and managed to convert his vast pace advantage over post-Imola shunt Piquet into another title? Assuming he still ends up at Ferrari, would having world champion status have helped him against Prost in 1990? As it was, we never got to see Mansell as the reigning champion, and barely as a former champion at all, in F1, so it's kind of untested! Also, this is probably a different alternate reality to the one where he still ends up at Ferrari, but it was vaguely touched on in the episode, but I'd like to hear a bit more: Does winning the 1986 title mean Williams keep Honda engines post-1987, even with Honda's unhappiness with how they handled the campaign? How do you think the next few years of F1 history play out (Andy mentioned Williams probably win '88, but beyond that)? What engines do McLaren have, do they still have Senna & Prost, etc? A couple of comments: I've always thought it was ironic that in 1984, Prost lost the title because of a late car failure for Nigel Mansell, but in 1986, Prost won the title because of a late failure for Mansell! Relating to the list of possible back-to-back champions we could have had between 1960 and 1986 that Edd mentioned, one he didn't mention was that Jim Clark would have had four titles in a row from 62-65 if not for late car failures in the 62 and 64 season finales (just 2 laps to go in 64!) That would have been a fairer reflection of his status among the greats. Sorry for the length of this, but if you do more '80s turbo episodes in the future, I would like to suggest Monaco 1984, Dallas 1984, Silverstone 1987 and (if you consider it part of the turbo era) Imola 1982 as possible future races to cover! (It is a bit murky when turbo era begins, do you have a definition in mind?)
Patrick
2025-02-02 21:24:13 +0000 UTCWhat was the best looking car taking part in the 86 season?
Lancelott
2025-02-02 21:13:06 +0000 UTCBased on the outcome of '86 season, what were the biggest upsets (team/driver-wise) at the start of '87?
Peter Selecký
2025-02-02 19:16:53 +0000 UTCHow many more drivers championships in the 80’s, 90’s, and possibly even 2000’s (2003) would Williams have had if not for strategy blunders, driver priority errors, and pitstop failings? It comes across as so bizarre that Williams seemingly thought that simply showing up with the fastest car guaranteed championships.
Shrinkinator
2025-02-02 18:32:09 +0000 UTCHi Glenn, delighted to see an episode on this era! Did you find it more difficult than normal to prepare an episode for this era or is it very similar to a 1989/1990 episode? If you were to do another episode from this era would you have to rely on doing 'classic' races from the era rather than tap into some of the run of the mill races like you can in the v10/v8 era? What's the furthest you think you could realistically do an episode from, presumably 70s is too far back due to lack of availability of guests around back then. But if you were do one again I'd love to hear a 1982 episode to be able to learn more about the FISA/FOCA war if that was possible. Ps you're the best motorsport pod no matter what anyone says 😁
Aidan Dulohery
2025-02-02 17:20:55 +0000 UTCGood point, they both managed to avoid what could have beenan almighty shunt. (Not sure if Alliot looked to see where Nigel was in his mirrors, or if Mansell was able to direct the car, or if it was pure luck they didn't collide.)
Steve D
2025-02-02 15:09:11 +0000 UTCThank you for this superb trip down memory lane to the ‘80s! Hopefully there will be more to come in future. With Mansell’s tyre blowout I always felt sorry for Philippe Alliot, who had just been lapped and suddenly had a face full of sparks going down the main straight! Somehow he cleanly re-passed Mansell, moved back to the racing line and hit his braking point for the right-hander.
Jamie Willis
2025-02-02 14:52:11 +0000 UTCAlso learnt about this race from an F1 Racing Magazine article post Hill Suzuka 96 triumph about title deciders of the past.
Chris Parrott
2025-02-02 14:36:20 +0000 UTCWhat were the contempoary regulations around post race fuel testing? It was not uncommon in the 80s for cars to barely make it over the finish line or halt on the cool down lap as Prost did in this race. Also remember Prost weaving for his life at Hockenheim stadium section on the last lap to shake some more fuel out of the car earlier in the decade.
Chris Parrott
2025-02-02 14:34:25 +0000 UTCIf you could change the outcome of one final race championship decider, which would it be and why?
Jake
2025-02-02 14:21:54 +0000 UTCHow would this race have been covered and received in the modern day?
Adam Barton
2025-02-02 14:17:10 +0000 UTCIn terms of the Prost-Senna battle, how did the McLaren package compare with the Lotus in 1986? Dumfries obviously struggled but Prost was a long way clear of Rosberg generally too. Hard to work out which one performed the greatest miracle in '86
Mark Martin
2025-02-02 13:45:55 +0000 UTCI love the cars from that era. Meaty, menacing looking things, great noise too. I remember Patrick Head talking about how Nelson went to Frank on his death bed to lobby for #1 status!
sikloy
2025-02-02 13:19:25 +0000 UTCI’ve often heard it said that mansell’s willingness not to crash and cause a pile up is actually what cost him the title. If he had stacked into the wall and caused red it’s said he would have been declared champion on count-back Had this happened would his title be seen as controversial or would people have seen mansell as legitimate champion regardless ?
Simracer Sam
2025-02-02 13:09:19 +0000 UTCGiven the reception, can we look forwards to more turbo episodes in future seasons?
Nicholas Langdon
2025-02-02 13:02:28 +0000 UTCWasn't F1 so much better when cars were not as reliable as they are today?
Jan Alexander
2025-02-02 12:19:47 +0000 UTCAlready wrote this under the episode itself, but First of all, thank you so much for going Turbo! Really enjoyed the episode. And secondly, how much the collective memory of F1 fans from the UK is shaped by Murray Walker. I find it fascinating that every country, every language had their own "F1 voices" who did what Murray did to their respective audiences, because up until a few years ago, we - like me coming from Austria - hardly had any idea even of Murray Walker's existence, let alone to what extent he was a cult figure, really. So much so that you guys named an entire Podcast after his quote after Mansell s Tyre blew up.
Philipp Eitzinger
2025-02-02 12:18:51 +0000 UTCReally enjoyed the detour into the original Turbo era Glenn! Hopefully the first of a regular occurrence Where does Adelaide '86 rank for you personally in the "greatest title decider" of F1 debate? I know many F1 fans think Interlagos '08 is unsurpassed and in terms of last corner, last lap drama it's difficult to argue, but for me Adelaide was a much better "race" from start to finish, with three of the greatest F1 drivers all in contention, and didn't rely on weather to cause a dramatic change in the outcome.
Stuart Coulter
2025-02-02 12:11:49 +0000 UTCRosberg's last race. I remember reading that he was contracted for 86 and 87 but it was the death of Elio De Angeles that mad him re-think his time in F1
Simon Pope
2025-02-02 12:09:05 +0000 UTCMore of a question about 86 in general, could have Senna done something different to get to this race with a shot at the title? Maybe a bit better fuel management in races like Imola? Or was the Lotus too unreliable to allow this?
Disc Infiltrator
2025-02-02 12:08:17 +0000 UTCI wasn't old enough to watch this era, but it's fun to go back to races you know about but never saw. A couple of thoughts rather than questions. It seems like Adelaide was almost a prototype of the modern "destination" race, the way Murray describes it; it almost sounds like it was something of a novelty? I enjoyed 2 specific moments that reminded me how distant this era seems from modern F1; James Hunt's comment about "enjoying the title sponsors product" and the shot of Ayrton Senna casually eating a sandwich (with white bread!) after retiring, presuming there was little in the way of nutritional advice and motorhomes in those days. Also, this new BBV10s with questions is making me go back and watch along with the series. It was good already, but it's a really rich experience doing it this way. Perfect for the off season!
Steve D
2025-02-02 11:57:52 +0000 UTCSo a thought for Johnny Dumfries and his last F1 race. He had a hard season, stating on a great beyond the grid podcast before his death, that the first half of the season he was testing I think a terrible gearbox that kept breaking. Clearly with second class support from lotus it must have been hard for him. Also had the first onboard camera for the race and watch his first lap on YouTube you can really feel what it was like in a F1 turbo in the 80s.
Robin M
2025-02-02 11:28:13 +0000 UTCNo question, just a huge compliment. When you came with this race as your first 80's turbo episode I was a bit disappointed as I had read, heard and seen so much about it already. But the episode was brilliant with still plenty if new insights and your opinions being very valid (as always) as well. So looking forward to some more wandering into this era.
Jurre Hindriks
2025-02-02 11:27:19 +0000 UTC
