Early Access Video: Vise Squad, The Iron Face Vise
Added 2020-10-17 11:01:01 +0000 UTCFriends:
I recently figured something out. The cast iron face vise (what most of us think of as just a "vise") has some serious limitations. For years, this thing has been the only game in town, but there are all kinds of things it can't do.
And there are SO many other vises out there, vises that were around for centuries and allowed thousands of craftsmen to do good work. Where are these vises today? Why don't we use more of them?
These are good questions, so I'm starting a new series. It's called Vise Squad, and in this first installment, I'll look at the old faithful face vise, where it came from and how it dominated woodworking. From here, I'll build some of the other great vises from history and see what they have to offer.
This is going to be fun.
--Rex
Comments
@Rex, what is the make on that cast iron woodworking vise you use? The one you used before making the leg vise? Ty sir, love what you do.
DJ Davis
2020-10-27 18:21:57 +0000 UTCRex Ive watched you on YouTube for at least the last two years and admire the fine aspect of OK it can be done. as being an amiture by every definition of the word. i find comfort in your video's i'm 60 years old and am in dire need of getting my $%^ in gear. i find that notification in your vids. i do apologies for the lack of funding for your page but do by al means contribute what i can each month. please keep the good work up. simply thank you.
James l Smith sr
2020-10-23 20:36:05 +0000 UTCVice-squad! A great title! I think we all could use a few more vices.
Robert A Carbo
2020-10-21 21:52:50 +0000 UTCThat museum link is awesome Bill. Thanks for posting that.
Robert A Carbo
2020-10-21 21:49:20 +0000 UTCIf that is a bad vice I will be glad to add it to my future workbench given I have no vice:)
The Super-wrench Garage
2020-10-21 16:13:41 +0000 UTCRex, notice the bit about using the barilette as a vise? You have to include that in your vise squad report, no? Here's a link that has the referenced picture https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/the-holdfast-in-your-backyard/
Fred Gosbee
2020-10-20 02:12:49 +0000 UTCMr. Google answered my question Carpenter and researcher Jeff Burks passed me this clipping from a 1930 edition of Popular Mechanics, which discusses the “barilette,” which is a wooden holdfast. Check out the text here: “The ‘barilette,’ which is little known on the modern workbench, is an exceedingly helpful tool, and a valuable aid for holding boards flat on the bench while working them. In its simplest form it is a fork of wood or iron, one leg of which is dropped through a hole in the bench top, as shown in the detail, while the other leg rests on the work. A sharp tap on the head of the fork wedges the barilette and holds the work firmly. Iron barilettes are sometimes fitted with a refinement in the form of a screw-tightening arrangement, which, while adding to the cost, does not greatly increase the usefulness of the tool. This form is that known to wood carvers as a ‘hold-down.’ The writer prefers a wooden one, made from the tough fork of a tree, to any form of iron tool, as it is lighter to handle and lower in cost. The longer limb should be about 1-3/8 in. in diameter, and the holes in the bench made with a 1-1/2 in. bit. The larger drawing shows an unusual application of the barilette, in which it is used as a substitute for a screw in the bench vise. A tap on the end of the barilette tightens it, while an upward tap below the outer end loosens it. This contrivance provides an instant grip, which many quite expensive vises fail to do in practice simply because their parts cannot work freely enough.’
Fred Gosbee
2020-10-20 02:09:31 +0000 UTCHoldfasts: could a forked branch of a tough wood like oak or locust work as a holdfast?
Fred Gosbee
2020-10-20 02:01:29 +0000 UTCIn one of my previous jobs I was tasked with developing a glossary of terms commonly used in shipbuilding. By the time I got to "V" I was getting punchy, so the official glossary of American shipbuilding terms has two entries: "vise, a large bench-mounted clamp" and "vice, anything you enjoy that is deemed bad for your health"
Fred Gosbee
2020-10-20 01:58:34 +0000 UTCoh, Rex, I think we finally stumbled upon a topic upon which we disagree. CDs are durable. I have all the CDs I purchased back in the 80s and they all work. I was just cleaning out stuff the other day and stumbled upon my vinyl collection and had to throw out many of them as they'd become stuck in their sleeves. I've never had a professional CD go bad on me. If it got scratches and started to skip, I'd take micromesh to it and problem solved.
Jason Bailey
2020-10-19 16:09:55 +0000 UTCI am afraid you've got it slightly wrong about CDs. First and foremost they operate without physical contact between the disc and the reading "head" (because there is a beam of light). This makes them inherently longer lasting than vinyls. They are quite scratch proof too. Unfortunately they are less resistant on the top side where the labels are, because there is only a thin layer of laquer. On the bottom side, where thick polycarbonate is, they don't mind to be scratched at all, a laser beam will focus "around" those scratches. So it is little know fact, that it is actually safer to put a CD "music down" rather than "print down". Yet another advantage of the digital technology is repeatability. Unless a player is damaged it will play back recordings the same every time. And even if it can't read a bit of information, there are algorithms that make it unnoticeable to a listener. Last but not least, technical parameters of CD recordings (bandwidth, dynamic range) are better than vinyls'. Having said that, I like vinyls, I already bought a few of them (they are not significantly cheaper than CDs, thouh) without having a turntable yet (and these can be pricey if you want a good one). I like their sound, but this has little to do with technical parameters.
stlmch
2020-10-19 07:39:46 +0000 UTCThanks, Rex, for the vice advise! I wasn’t sure if I was going to go with the leg vice when I do my joiner’s bench, but you sold me on it. I was always a metal bench vise guy until I got into woodworking. Didn’t really know much about the woodworking vices until watching your channel and some others. Hey, you forgot to mention 8 Tracks! Lol!
Sean O'Neill
2020-10-19 01:52:03 +0000 UTCwoohoo! Elvis Costello Get Happy! great musical choice
Andrew Mitchell
2020-10-18 19:48:17 +0000 UTC"auto mechanics" ROFL. Crap eh, I never thought of putting a screw in a stick to hold it in place for anti-racking! I agree, Paul's clamp and vise system is just another layer of difficultly and fiddling. As you know, I had a face vise, got rid of it. Had a leg vise, now it's gone too. I have only a tail vise now, all my work holding is using dog holes on the apron and top. Ha, now I know where the thing on vinyl vs cd came from.
William Allen
2020-10-18 16:18:18 +0000 UTCI’m still stuck with the engineers vice but getting close to rebuilding my workspace once I finish a set of drawers (on the discussion fiorum). I am thinking of a bench with a leg vice, but I have not yet found a source of holdfasts in New Zealand. Given the lack of room, I am planning to have the engineer’s vice mounted to a base that I can hold in the leg vice for my metalwork projects. Thanks for you ongoing inspiration Rex. You make me feel good about being into diy projects.
David Coxon
2020-10-18 08:14:10 +0000 UTCI planed a vinyl record smooth and now I can't hear anything
Matthew Leigh
2020-10-18 05:36:33 +0000 UTCBTW, does anyone have experience with the Hovarter quick action mechanism as a face vise? I didn't know if it would do the same thing as Rex's leg vise as far as racking and accommodating tapers. How about a wooden screw? I have no experience with those & some people swear by them.
Tom Manseau
2020-10-18 04:27:00 +0000 UTCRex: A suggestion that you include patternmaker's vises such as the ones made by Oliver.
Evan Gamblin
2020-10-18 03:12:04 +0000 UTCIf you check out some of the marketing from the late 80's and early 90's, people like the Australian Broadcasting Commission claimed that the CD was actually 1) un-scratchable, and 2) would not skip, even if you shook the CD player. Given your account of the early CD, I don't know how they got away with saying that.
matthew hilberts
2020-10-18 02:38:24 +0000 UTCAs so many have said this is going to be a great series. 'Vise Squad'! I thought I was the only one who came up with weird titles and bad puns. Yup. this series is going to be gripping. This channel is getting better than anything on those big network channels. We get history, DIY and great educational entertainment Thanks Rex.
Matt Evans-Koch
2020-10-18 01:38:30 +0000 UTCLooking forward to the new series. Great video. Very thought provoking.
Robert Romero
2020-10-17 21:11:21 +0000 UTCThanks Rex as always enjoy my Saturday night (Oz time) instalment. Having nearly finished workbench #2 and still not having worked out the vice/permanent work holding issue this series is timely, cheers mate.
Wayne
2020-10-17 20:57:06 +0000 UTCIs that an Anarchist's workbench at the end of the video? I haven't been on the discord after I signed up, is there a link to the discussion?
Kristopher Skelton
2020-10-17 18:33:05 +0000 UTCThis is coming at a very good time for me. I built a knockdown Nicholson bench designed by Christopher Schwarz a few years ago and have used very successfully. It doesn't have a vise at all but does have a crochet. But there are some operations such as bookmatching edges for joining or using a saw for ripping or crosscutting where a vice would come in really handy. Figuring out the best vise and how to attach it would be very useful.
Tom Manseau
2020-10-17 17:19:36 +0000 UTCSounds like you've got the right idea. People get a little too worried about the package sometimes, when it's the music that matters. BTW, something like this would likely work with whatever you're using to run the speakers on your turn table. I've never bought one, so I don't know if one is better than another, but you get the idea. https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Headphones-Hands-free/dp/B01KXIKCSI/ref=sr_1_8?crid=9HX4MXTPPL9Y&dchild=1&keywords=bluetooth+transmitter+with+volume+control&qid=1602952951&sprefix=blue+tooth+tra%2Caps%2C158&sr=8-8
Andrew More
2020-10-17 16:45:51 +0000 UTCThe "won't grip a holdfast" sold me to skip the whole endeavor. You, sir, just saved me a number of hours of work/play. Interestingly, Matt said that the school he teaches at has an MDF layer on their benches. They must not use holdfasts.
Bill Brisky
2020-10-17 16:45:45 +0000 UTCI almost built Rex's English joiners bench, looked at Roubouxs, too heavy and complicated, was even mulling over how to put wheels on the English bench. Then I came across the Moravian style on another woodworking site. This one can be assembled or knocked down in a minute or two, has legs canted into the center which makes it almost impossible to move with planing or sawing forces, I can carry all pieces even with a surgically repaired back. I built it out of 4x6 and some old 2 by lumber, it has a removable leg vise and is basically bombproof. Might be a little much for a new woodworker (I was a carpenter for 40+ years), I'll post some pics after I clean the shop up a little.
John Griswold
2020-10-17 15:40:09 +0000 UTCI picked up a turntable/digitizer to convert some of my 40/50 year old vinyl to play on my I-pod (remember those?). Ended up just listening to my old records at home, wore out the cheap turntable, bought a slightly more expensive one, and am enjoying my records. A buddy who is a sound/PA guy gave me a cd player, don't really have many and those I use in my car. Have been able to find ebay sales of old favorites in vinyl, can't really hook up the cd player in my current cabinet without another set of hands, don't know if I ever will. Now...to figure out how to digitize over bluetooth to my phone, nothing like being a tech dinosaur
John Griswold
2020-10-17 15:31:31 +0000 UTCNo, I switched to CDs for cleaner sound (I hate the clicks and pops you get from vinyl) and better dynamic range. :)
Bill Smithem
2020-10-17 15:15:42 +0000 UTCI'm excited for this new series, I've really liked your videos that incorporate some history of woodworking. And I started with a viseless bench at first following Mike Siemsen's Naked Woodworker videos. After a few months of that, I followed your leg vise plans, and absolutely love having it. It's easy and quick to hold boards for edge and end work, especially joinery tasks. While I was building it, the discourse group was super helpful and encouraging. I'm left handed and made it to sit on the right side of the bench and several other patrons had useful advice for me.
Alex Lopatka
2020-10-17 15:14:38 +0000 UTCYou may be correct about the portable nature of the iron vise, but you should check out the Moravian Workbench which is a portable workbench that could be carried in a horse drawn wagon and also featured a portable leg vise. https://eclecticmechanicals.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/themoravianworkbenchbywillmyers.pdf
Andrew More
2020-10-17 14:52:56 +0000 UTCThis is gonna be fun!
Rick Prosser
2020-10-17 14:45:05 +0000 UTCHey Rex, I'd invite you down to San Diego to try out my patternmakers vise, but well, Covid... :( If you want some pictures or video for your series I can provide those. I LOVE my vise and designed my bench around it.
A1BASE
2020-10-17 14:36:42 +0000 UTCI recall cd's arriving in about '86... and I don't listen to either my cd's or vinyl records anymore. But I do really, really care about this topic of vices! I've been making do with a small cast iron 'woodworking' vice while my larger one has been collecting dust (still in the box) for the last year. I'm still not sure how I want my next bench to look like with all the built in clamping options it will have. This is going to be awesome!
Jeff Stauffer
2020-10-17 14:27:00 +0000 UTCI'm really looking forward to this series! I like your new vice for vises
David Bumpus
2020-10-17 14:19:31 +0000 UTCLet the debate continue! https://rexkrueger.discourse.group/t/the-never-ending-vinyl-cd-debate/4043
Rex Krueger
2020-10-17 13:58:18 +0000 UTCLet's discuss further! https://rexkrueger.discourse.group/t/the-never-ending-vinyl-cd-debate/4043
Rex Krueger
2020-10-17 13:57:44 +0000 UTCLet's take this over to the forum! https://rexkrueger.discourse.group/t/the-never-ending-vinyl-cd-debate/4043
Rex Krueger
2020-10-17 13:57:09 +0000 UTCWhile I have great respect for Matt, I disagree with this suggestion. Your bench is plenty durable as it is and the planking is already replaceable and it's easy to plane flat again when it gets dinged up. Also, MDF won't grip a holdfast (I've tried). So you have to reconfigure your existing bench for a dubious benefit. I would just keep your bench as-is.
Rex Krueger
2020-10-17 13:34:19 +0000 UTCI still have all my vinyl been thinking about getting a turn table for them. I will be building a full size bench when I retire in a couple of years. This series is going to be very useful.
Mark Bittrolff
2020-10-17 13:24:54 +0000 UTCThis is perfect! I'll need to consider the vise for my bench (when I get around to building it). I've actually been considering the vise the last couple of days. Thanks Rex!
Thomas Hverring
2020-10-17 13:04:49 +0000 UTCWhile you're usually on target, I have to disagree with your assessment of the CD. First, the sound quality is objectively better because it has a larger range that LPs. It's also not subtly altered by the change in speed as the stylus moves from the outside to the inside of the record. Second, it can be used in the car, unlike the LP. Third, the CDs will last for a long long time, just like LPs, but in both cases you need to be careful. In the case of an LP you have to be super careful handling them, least they get a scratch. Same when you put them on the turntable, and dropped the needle. Fourth, CDs allow you to skip around easily, while with an LP you never quite hit the spot, and you risk scratching the LP when you do so. Fifth, while the CD player was initially more expensive, the nature of it soon meant that it was cheaper. It was also portable, and inherently more durable as well. Sixth, the same thing happened with the prices of CDs, which as you mentioned were cheaper to make, and like all tech eventually started selling at the lower price because of this.
Andrew More
2020-10-17 12:59:20 +0000 UTCLift the existing leg vise, and replace the wedge with a pin board or the x-cross mechanisms, unfortunately. You may have to build out a false "leg" to hold the other side of the cross or pin board, depending on where you placed the vise.
Geoffrey Wilson
2020-10-17 12:52:50 +0000 UTCI absolutely love this community! These videos are amazing! There's so much encouragement, excitement and enthusiasm from both! I wish I had more time to practice - soon I hope :) I was thinking about that Iron face vise though. Has anyone ever used one mounted sideways? As in, the "top" of the vise would be to the left or right. It'd be more of a mini leg vise at that point I think, but in a pinch? Could it work, or would it be better to ratchet-strap the work piece to a post? Maybe that's something to try in a video?
Jeremy Denslinger
2020-10-17 12:17:52 +0000 UTCAwesome topic. This was one of the most confusing topics for me as a new woodworker. Everyone has there own opinion and thinks there vise is the best. Do you go with the cast vise like Paul Sellers, shoulder vise like Frank Klausz or Tage Frid, the leg vise like Chris Schwarz, or the Emmert patternmakers vise like very wealthy folks get. I am not going to start on benefits of different options for the made vises like wood screws, ST whoever’s cross, etc.
James Crandall
2020-10-17 12:16:38 +0000 UTCLooking forward to this series. I'm building a viceless bench based on the Nicholson, more like Mike Siemsen's. Definitely planning on a Moxon vice at some stage, but I'd love to see some stuff covering wooden screws, seem a lot nicer aesthetically, and more fun.
Duncan Haigh
2020-10-17 12:11:46 +0000 UTCNow the question is... who’d Rex find with a complete pattern makers vise?
Ethan Chitty
2020-10-17 11:57:24 +0000 UTCBtw., your timing, Rex. is perfect. I just wanted to order my face vise for my future workbench and you say I should wait a couple of weeks, there can be something to consider and learn. You know what? I'm going to wait. Eagerly. I am sure you will teach me a lot. Thank you in advance. :)
Csongor Halmai
2020-10-17 11:54:05 +0000 UTCVinyl had a very bad sound quality for the _average_ people. An entry-level turntable produced way worse audio quality than an entry-level CD-player. So, for the average people, CD gave a much better experience. The high-end, however, is a different world. Vinyl sounds better on a very decent device but it has a huge price. I remember, how much better I enjoyed CDs than LPs. :)
Csongor Halmai
2020-10-17 11:47:05 +0000 UTCAnd they offered automatic track switching. Plus, the downside of them initially not working in cars or on the go... it's not like vinyl offered those options either, so while those were initial downsides, they weren't a step down but just problems not solved (yet).
Marten Veldthuis
2020-10-17 11:38:31 +0000 UTCSpeaking of tools, I came across a tool museum. Yes, a tool museum. John Sindelar has it in Edwardsburg, MI, not too far from Cleveland. The website is http://www.sindelartoolmuseum.com. I found this while reading Christopher Schwartz's "The Anarchist's Workbench" (or it might have been "The Anarchist's Toolchest"). Check it out. There are some amazing tools out there.
Bill Brisky
2020-10-17 11:33:24 +0000 UTCNice video! My leg vise (your design) was one of my first projects and I love it. I am going to slap a large slab of MDF on to the top of my bench (your English bench). The problem is the vise jaws will sit 3/4" below the surface for more weight and replaceablity (not a word). I got this idea from Matt Estlea (another good Youtube channel). At this point, my best option is to recreate a new, longer leg vise to match the new top, or chop the legs down 3/4". Do you have any other ideas or suggestions?
Bill Brisky
2020-10-17 11:27:43 +0000 UTCAwesome! Enjoyed the history lesson and clarity on the race vises strengths and limitations. Looking forward to more of the “Vise Squad” Thanks
Robert Bullock
2020-10-17 11:26:11 +0000 UTCI don't know if this is a history channel or a wood working channel, but which ever it is, it is one of my fav channels. 😀😀😀😉👍🏻.
The Deaf Maker
2020-10-17 11:25:42 +0000 UTCLooking forward to the new series. Bought that book on the Roman bench read it cover to cover in one sitting then went back for the good bits .
Jason Hoy
2020-10-17 11:21:24 +0000 UTCHooray! This is a great topic! Kudos, Rex!
Ramin Chalili
2020-10-17 11:19:15 +0000 UTCCD had a huge audio advantage: a much lower noise floor, which means much bigger dynamic range. Why we never take advantage of this in pop music, I don’t know, but a CD is capable of much better dynamic range than a record player can achieve.
JKlarinet
2020-10-17 11:18:59 +0000 UTCAwesome! Can't wait to learn about other types
Jniz
2020-10-17 11:12:32 +0000 UTCI'm saving this for later when the house is a bit quieter!
Matt
2020-10-17 11:05:44 +0000 UTC
